Aes Sedai as weapons

[DemandredFO]

What have we seen as far as weapon-weaves from Aes Sedai.  I'm just trying to get an idea of how they can stop 1-2 million trollocs with either either none or a few angreal and sa'angreal.  This is just for Aes Sedai.  I'm excluding other channelers

[icspots]

Off the top of my head we of course have fireballs and lighting.  Moiraine also made an earthquake and wall of fire in TEoTW.  Balefire of course, though it's proscribed for Aes Sedai.  Then there are the internal things that people like Chesmal use to kill people.  I know there's way more though.

[Vambram]

Thats an interesting idea. I do wonder how many examples of area of effect combat weaves are found in the WOT books?

[Dehstehra]

I wonder if this has ever been used-- weaving long flows of air in front of the oncoming army at about mid-shin height. That would be pretty effective, I think. To have the entire front rank of the army just trip and fall on their faces would definitely cause some confusion. Even better would be if it was a charge coming at them at a run-- large scale tripping, chaos, pile-ups, and, of course, deaths and injuries caused by trampling...

[Guest leebarr]

you could also pick up rocks and things to throw. a stone hitting you in the head moving fast could kill almost anything

[aevogt]

My thought was the "Razor Ribbons" Asmodean tried to use against Rand in Rhuidean.  Completely invisible from the front, just let the charging hordes slice themselves into dog food

[wvlr]

I would think that all the AS, Windfinders and WOs that were at the Cleansing would want to know the weave Elza used to kill Osan'gar/Dashiva.    The huge ball or coruscating fire that can take down an entire hilltop by 50 feet is better than most fireballs and lightening that we have seen.   Hell, if the others had known that beforehand, they might have faired better against the other Forsaken.

 

Edited to add:

 

As far as that goes.    The AS should be able to create some of these every 50 feet or so creating an immpossible wall for an enemy to pass.  Each one could be tied off to last for X number of days.

 

That same tactic could be used with Moraine's "wall of fire" weave.    Surely it would only take a circle of two or three to do that.    How far did that wall go?    One mile?    Two?

[Shellin]

I haven't read WH in a while so I might be wrong, but I believe Elza was the one controlling the Callandor circle, and that is why she was able to blow up an entire hillside.

[algspkr]

I haven't read WH in a while so I might be wrong, but I believe Elza was the one controlling the Callandor circle, and that is why she was able to blow up an entire hillside.

She was, and like you I am somewhat out of touch, but I believe Rand said with Callandor he was equal to one hundred men.

[The Lost One]

Someone mentioned tied off weaves for combat.  That is one thing I don't understand.  Since tied off weaves do not dissipate, why dont we see them more...especially for defense/offense. 

 

Why aren't there walls of air to block the path of trollocs by the blight?  Why aren't there tied off walls of air to protect cities from trolloc raids and such by the blight.  Why aren't there tied off traps and/or wards that would kill trollocs or other shadow spawn by or around the blight? 

 

I could mention tons of others as I am sure many of you could too.  If tied off weaves can last indefinately, why wouldn't they set traps and protections like these.  As well as balls of lights that light the streets and such. 

 

 

[aevogt]

I've wondered that very same thing myself.  We know the keeping weave is usupposed to last forever, why not a blight defense weave.

 

A circle of 13 Aes Sedai with the Sa Angreal they used to heal Mat's link to the SL dagger ought to be able to cover miles of territory.

[BrainFireBob]

Question of knowing how.

 

And the "razor ribbons", to me, read like the warded defenses of Rhuidean placed by the old Aes Sedai.

 

As to tied-off weaves in combat in general: Vulnerable to enemy channellers.

 

Seems the Sea Folk and Seanchan don't know the trick of tying off, and Randlanders won't do it against non-Shadowspawn, and against Shadowspawn, in the major conflicts, there's always been channellers on the other side.

[elmis]

All it takes is one BA to unravel it though. Imagine the sheer time in maintenance to check if the wall is still there. False sense of security if you ask me. :)

 

They could probably use it in a battle, to block the trollocs path, but then it would be just better to Deathgate them, or even create a razor thin (long) piece of air and cut them to shreds (kinda like Cyndane in WH, just on a much bigger scale).

[aevogt]

Question of knowing how.

 

And the "razor ribbons", to me, read like the warded defenses of Rhuidean placed by the old Aes Sedai.

 

 

Except Rand and Mat both walked through the fog without encountering them when they were there before.

 

All it takes is one BA to unravel it though. Imagine the sheer time in maintenance to check if the wall is still there. False sense of security if you ask me.

 

One BA is not going to be able to unravel what a circle of 13 has tied with a Sa'Angreal.  It would take a circle of 13 BA with a Sa'angreal

[elmis]

That would depend on the knot, wouldn't it, and not on how much power was poured into making it..

[wvlr]

Except Rand and Mat both walked through the fog without encountering them when they were there before.

 

No when Rand and mat went the first time Asmo had not set the trap yet.

 

Asmo set the trap just before Rand arrives because Asmo knew Rand was following him.

[Dehstehra]

Be that as it may, Aes Sedai probably have no idea how to make the razor ribbons weave, so it's irrational for them to use it in battle anyhow...

[Aemon raHal]

I wonder if this has ever been used-- weaving long flows of air in front of the oncoming army at about mid-shin height. That would be pretty effective, I think. To have the entire front rank of the army just trip and fall on their faces would definitely cause some confusion. Even better would be if it was a charge coming at them at a run-- large scale tripping, chaos, pile-ups, and, of course, deaths and injuries caused by trampling...

 

Brilliant !!!

 

And it can't be that difficult to make a thin bar of air a few hundred feet long and have it push back through ranks of soldiers.

Then archers could riddle them with arrows while they're lying face down on the ground, or whatever other weave Aes Sedai or Asha'man want to finish them off with.

 

Brilliant.

[BrainFireBob]

Yes, because neither Rand nor Mat had been there before.

 

The Wise Ones tell them that "no man can go but once, no woman but twice."

 

When he insists he's going after Moiraine, the Wise Ones tell him in disgust that even he could not survive going twice.

 

Hence, on Rand's second trip, the defensive wards show up to kill him.

[wvlr]

Hence, on Rand's second trip, the defensive wards show up to kill him.

 

I don't think that the ribbons were automatic defenses that were always there.    I think that they were traps set by Asmo just moments before because he knew Rand was following him.    They had even fought a little earlier in the "Blackness" type Travel Gateway.

 

Sorry, I do not have the book with me to give exact quotes but I think that is the way it happened.

[aevogt]

Even though Lanfear says the place was warded,

 

The flaw is that Rand was able to enter and we've seen that wards that deny entry usually just act like a wall to stop the person from entering. re the Stone of Tear

 

Rand is also able to dispel the ribbons with Saidin, which means they were made by a male channeler, not the two old hags present at the Agreement of Rhuidean who would have been the only other candidates.

 

I think the "men enter once" "women enter twice" was mostly Aiel superstition, backed up by a generations of people doing exactly that.

 

It is very likely that entering the glass columns a second time would kill anyone who does it.  Since that is the only reason for an Aiel man to enter Rhuidean, that's where the prohibition came from.  Entering the Ter'angreal, not entering the "city limits" itself, which became "No man can enter twice"

 

[BrainFireBob]

aevogt:

 

That's unfounded supposition.

 

Rhuidean is warded. Lanfear flatly says this. Rand shredded the wards as he entered Rhuidean again. He was tearing against . .something. More, those wards are the reason you can neither Travel nor Skim nor even Dream yourself into Rhuidean.

 

Anyone can see, say, Air condensed into a cutting edge. You don't have to see the weave to know it's there, nor to counter it/slash it.

 

Rand comments he tore at something, and had to dodge the ribbons/slice through them. Both the "something" and the fact that the ribbons were visible, not just weaves, means they're not necessarily set by Asmodean.

 

Occam's Razor: The explanation requiring the least assumptions is most likely to be true.

 

The ribbons were a passive defense- they formed out of the fog right in front of Rand, he'd have impaled himself on them if he'd kept running. Everything Asmo throws at him Asmo actively throws at him. This does not fit Asmo's pattern. It does fit static wards that aren't trying to stop Asmo, but are in fact struggling to stop Rand.

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

the last part is entirely illogical.  if none of the direct attacks worked?  don't you think he would have tried something else?  it just makes sense...if something is broken[ala asmo's initial strategy of using direct attacks), FIX IT!

 

 

[elmis]

I always assumed they thought he meant to enter the crystal "memory-lineage" ter'angreal again, and wouldn't let him go because of that.

[The Lost One]

After just reading though this again, taking and combining some of the ideas, a great weapon would be:

 

A thin sharp flow of air, like a piano wire...spready across as far as they could with the power....about 3 feet or so above the ground (high enough to split them in 1/2).....sent flying off in the direction of approaching trollocs.  Basically to cut ALL of them in half for the length of the flow of air.  I could see this killing hundreds or thousands of shadowspawn all in one direction.