What to do with captive Forsaken?

[CUBAREY]

Would they be able to create a Cfemale Chaddon Kal? If they can why have not the Choosen already created male and female copies.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Possibly, but they couldn't take it out of Tel'aran'rhiod with them, so I'm not sure what good that would do.

 

The reason the Oath Rod could be useful is that the changes it effects in the person swearing would come out of Tel'aran'rhiod with that person.

[CUBAREY]

Quote:

 

Possibly, but they couldn't take it out of Tel'aran'rhiod with them, so I'm not sure what good that would do.

 

Blasting the Do's prison open in the Dream World would theoreticaly free the DO in all worlds.

[Chel Vanin]

I think that the forsaken should go on public trial before they are executed. People everywhere fear the forsaken almost as much as the DO so if they see Rand rounding them up and killing them off thats gonna make people think Rand is "winning" at whatever he is doing, and might get him more support all around randland. If nothing else its another thing for people to talk about.

 

Also I think Cadsuane is about the only person that might get info from semi, semi herself is a torture master she'll probably know how to withstand almost anything thrown at her. I'm pretty sure an a'dam will be involved though, since they recovered quite a few when semi was captured.

[Shard]

On the topic of the light side not knowing about transmogrifying souls. Halima has been found out, they don't know that she was a Forsaken. However they do know that she was channeling Sadin AND had arrived with the other forsaken that had attacked them. I think someone may make the guess at what the DO has done with his dead Forsaken.

[Tyrell]

I think that the forsaken should go on public trial before they are executed. People everywhere fear the forsaken almost as much as the DO so if they see Rand rounding them up and killing them off thats gonna make people think Rand is "winning" at whatever he is doing, and might get him more support all around randland. If nothing else its another thing for people to talk about.

 

Rand, and the forces of light in general seem to have horrible PR issues. I mean, as far as I know Rand hasn't even announce that he cleansed Saidin, when that would surely be a massive positive thing he could do both to rally support behind him and draw in more men to the black tower. He doesn't seem to have announced that he's personally killed Aginor, Ishamael, Sammael and Rahvin and seen Balthamel, Be'lal & Lanfear. These are the kinda things that would bring him support, y'know actually letting people know you're fighting the shadow and winning some battles, rather than just causing strife and chaos.

 

What do I know?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Blasting the Do's prison open in the Dream World would theoreticaly free the DO in all worlds.

 

Well, when Verin explained the paradox regarding the Dark One being imprisoned in all worlds, she was telling Egwene about the Portal Stone worlds, not Tel'aran'rhiod.  Tel'aran'rhiod is neither a "parallel" nor a "perpendicular" world ... it is simply an amalgamated reflection of all worlds (which is probably why you can actually create anything you can conceive, because as a reflection of infinite possibilities, everything that can exist, does exist in Tel'aran'rhiod ... but I digress).

 

Because it is merely a reflection, it can only be used to affect things contained in Tel'aran'rhiod.  It may be that Tel'aran'rhiod is the only world in which either the Bore is inaccessible (like Rhuidean was, or the stedding are) or in which freeing the Dark One is impossible, since Tel'aran'rhiod is simply a reflection.  It is possible to change a reflection by changing what it is reflecting, but you cannot change what is being reflected by altering the shape of the mirror, or even breaking the mirror.

[CUBAREY]

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I think that the forsaken should go on public trial before they are executed. People everywhere fear the forsaken almost as much as the DO so if they see Rand rounding them up and killing them off thats gonna make people think Rand is "winning" at whatever he is doing, and might get him more support all around randland. If nothing else its another thing for people to talk about.

 

 

Rand, and the forces of light in general seem to have horrible PR issues. I mean, as far as I know Rand hasn't even announce that he cleansed Saidin, when that would surely be a massive positive thing he could do both to rally support behind him and draw in more men to the black tower. He doesn't seem to have announced that he's personally killed Aginor, Ishamael, Sammael and Rahvin and seen Balthamel, Be'lal & Lanfear. These are the kinda things that would bring him support, y'know actually letting people know you're fighting the shadow and winning some battles, rather than just causing strife and chaos.

 

 

First, the crimes committed by the foresaken are 3500 years old. Almost all recors of the AOL have been lost. You're definately not going to find many witnesses to their crimes, so how exactly are you going to try them.  Also if their going to be "fair" trials and not just "show" trials" there is a good chance that the prosecution would not be able to meet their burdon of proof. About the last thing you want he for a Forsaken to be found not guilty at a public trial.

 

There is already rampent speculation about his sanety, all that you would need is for him to claim that he cleansed the male half of the power and killed several Forsaken for the vast majority of people to have "proof" that he has gome off the deep end.

[Tyrell]

All you really would need is a few Asha'man or Aes Sedai who can do the "Big loud scary voice" weave and travel. I mean, who's going to disagree with a large booming voice that announces something?

[CUBAREY]

All you really would need is a few Asha'man or Aes Sedai who can do the "Big loud scary voice" weave and travel. I mean, who's going to disagree with a large booming voice that announces something?

 

People might not argue but they would not believe.

[Shaidar]

@aevogt,

 

How about an a'dam that has been converted to Cuendillar.  Unless Moridin shows up personally to use the TP on it, my thinking is that it's not coming off any time soon.  Not only that, I doubt even a Forsaken could withstand being broken with an a'dam, provided enough time was devoted to it.  Make someone think they are being beaten with razor wire 24/7 for a week and if their mind survives, they'll beg you to bind them.  Make sure one of the oaths is that they must refuse (with force if necessary) any attempt to remove the bindings.  Also, they must not place themselves in danger to prevent intentional suicide.  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Hmmm...but would the a'dam still work after it was turn to cuendillar? As a ter'angreal, I imagine the a'dam creates a kind of 'Powerfield' around the object it collars, linking her with her mistress (the sul'dam). But cuendillar destroys Powerfields.

 

There are rules to war but the Forsaken don't follow them so I say screw 'em.  You're not going to win this one by being polite, as it were.  Ordinary dark friends might, MIGHT, be shown some mercy, but in the words or Aragorn, "Show them no mercy, for you shall recieve none"

 

Define an 'ordinary' Darkfriend. After all, the differences between DF's and Forsaken are IMO of quantity, not quality. The key difference is in the Forsakens' much greater capabilities.

 

Super shield all who survive and make the men dig toilet pits for the rest of their lives and put the women to work as Pole Dancers in Tar`volon's taverns. That will teach them a lesson *snickers*

 

Pole dancing in Tar Valon won't be that bad I should think. It's a refined city.

 

Actually, if they had a little imagination, they would realize that they can make their own Oath Rod any time they choose, wherever they choose ... just go to Tel'aran'rhiod.

 

Jordan confirmed that a "created" Oath Rod in Tel'aran'rhiod can release an Aes Sedai from the Oaths ... which means it can bind Oaths into someone as well.  (http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=96 )

 

Interesting. In that case they could throw in the Chair as a bonus.

 

I think that the forsaken should go on public trial before they are executed. People everywhere fear the forsaken almost as much as the DO so if they see Rand rounding them up and killing them off thats gonna make people think Rand is "winning" at whatever he is doing, and might get him more support all around randland. If nothing else its another thing for people to talk about.

 

CUBAREY replied well.

 

First, the crimes committed by the foresaken are 3500 years old. Almost all recors of the AOL have been lost. You're definately not going to find many witnesses to their crimes, so how exactly are you going to try them.  Also if their going to be "fair" trials and not just "show" trials" there is a good chance that the prosecution would not be able to meet their burdon of proof. About the last thing you want he for a Forsaken to be found not guilty at a public trial.

 

There is already rampent speculation about his sanety, all that you would need is for him to claim that he cleansed the male half of the power and killed several Forsaken for the vast majority of people to have "proof" that he has gome off the deep end.

 

Firstly, they have to prove they are Forsaken. Then they have to prove their crimes. Actually, it's very difficult even today, when there's plenty of documentary evidence. You see, dictators like Stalin, when condemning someone, made sure his signature on the warrant was with many others, if he bothered signing at all. And as for crimes of genocide, etc, the Forsaken can always plead ignorance of the brutality of their underlings. Certainly the Hague was nowhere close to convicting Milosevic when he died of a heart attack. For all we known, it's completely possible he actually was unaware of the actions of Bosnian Serb militias.

 

This can all be resolved by using the Oath Road, however. If you've got access to it, though, wouldn't it be much more productive simply to bind them to the Light, and wait for a trial, should it be deemed necessary, until after the Last Battle?

[wvlr]

@aevogt,

This can all be resolved by using the Oath Road, however. If you've got access to it, though, wouldn't it be much more productive simply to bind them to the Light, and wait for a trial, should it be deemed necessary, until after the Last Battle?

 

This would only work as a temoprary measure to extract information from them.  The existance of the BA show that the OR can not be depended on over an extended time.    Same with Morgy and the special A'Dam.  Given time the Dark has too much probability of removing such things. -  Especially if it can be removed in TAR.    Semi would just go to sleep and put herself in TAR and remove the Oaths herself.    Most the Forsaken have easy access to TAR not like the Wonder Girls.    Especially Semi - who managed to escape during the WoP. 

[RobertAlexWillis]

Firstly, they have to prove they are Forsaken. Then they have to prove their crimes. Actually, it's very difficult even today, when there's plenty of documentary evidence. You see, dictators like Stalin, when condemning someone, made sure his signature on the warrant was with many others, if he bothered signing at all. And as for crimes of genocide, etc, the Forsaken can always plead ignorance of the brutality of their underlings. Certainly the Hague was nowhere close to convicting Milosevic when he died of a heart attack. For all we known, it's completely possible he actually was unaware of the actions of Bosnian Serb militias.

 

All that assumes that the standards of evidence in Randland are the same as they are in our current international courts ... which is clearly not the case.  There's not even necessarily a presumption of innocence ... and Semirhage, at least, has freely admitted who she is.

 

But, in all seriousness, nobody at this point is thinking in terms of a trial, and, if there ever is a trial, it won't be fair and impartial ...

[Dragon21]

2) then 1) for me. You have to get what you can from them before you dispose of them.

[Guest leebarr]

Just kill em all and keep in mind the DO can bring them back to life so to speak. So make sure that everyone knows to keep an eye open and will be justifed if they kill someone and has 5 witness to say yes it was needed.

[irondan]

at first i wanted 2 or 3 but they are just too dangerous with too many tricks, so i went with 1. plus, their knowledge could be dangerous in the wrong hands.

[elmis]

If you get info from a Forsaken and THEN Balefire them - do you loose the info?

 

No.  As Metallica said: The Memory Remains.

 

LOL, sometimes you crack med up RAW  ;D

[elmis]

As for the original question.. my thoughts are extract information and Balefire them.

 

No peace with the Shadow, no quarter. Just as Rand said to Sammael's special messenger. ;)