What Will Happen With The White Tower?

[DuDZiK]

So Egwene, Amyrlin Seat of the 'rebel' Aes Sedai, is captured and in the White Tower. She's planting seeds in the sisters and gathering a sort of cult around her of the novices and accepted. She has become the sort of leader that you want: compassionate but firm in authority, inspiring, determined, and considers the needs of the group as a whole.

 

Then there's Elaida's prophecy. She thinks it's her that she foretold will be victorious, but it never clearly meant her and I'm sure we think it all means Egwene will win out. Speaking of those two, I can't wait to see Egwene wait on Elaida... in another thread I mentioned the battle of wills between Cadsuane and Tuon, well I think we'll have another one between Egwene and Elaida.

 

For that matter, the prophecy also mentions the Dragon Reborn knowing the wrath of the Amyrlin, which we can assume means Egwene. That's another meeting I can't wait to see, especially if, again, Cadsuane is there as well.

 

For that matter, I'd like to see a meeting of Moiraine and Cadsuane...

 

Anyways, my theory is that the search that Pevara and Saeine (sp?) were sent on to root out the Black Ajah will be the undoing of Elaida. I am basing this theory on the one Darkfriend sister saying that she thought that Elaida must be Black Ajah. This, combined with what the ferrets accomplished, plus what Egwene and Leane are now accomplishing, could be enough rope to pull Elaida down from the lofty pedestal she placed herself on.

[BKVMC]

well for moiranes  POV she  sees  cadsuane  as  a possible  darkfriend  according to new spring so i  imagine it will be interesting  to say the least.

[CUBAREY]

An interesting point when Egwene agreed to let rebel sitters negotiate with Tower sisters over a compromise she made only one condition, that Elaida had to be deposed.  Now, not that I necessarily think it will happen but the schism could be healed by deposing both Elaida and Egwene and naming a third Amerlyn (Cadsuanne would seem to be the perfect choice as she probably already leads the 1/3 of the A.S. who are sitting out the confrontation, and she has previously been considered for the post). The reason I bring up this possibility is that RJ has mentioned that the Tower, in part, was modeled after the Roman Catholic Church and the church once divided by having two pope's and was resolved by the election of a third pope.

[Mr Ares]

(Cadsuanne would seem to be the perfect choice as she probably already leads the 1/3 of the A.S. who are sitting out the confrontation, and she has previously been considered for the post)

And she turned it down. Now she is nearly dead - she wouldn't accept the job, and would only be a placeholder if she did. Although the idea of a third Amyrlin to reconcile the Tower isn't bad in and of itself, a compromise candidate. Just not her. Oh, and she probably does not run the other third of the Sisters. Most of them are probably going their own way and doing their own thing as ever, keeping their heads down and staying out of it, unaligned. To anyone. Cadsuane would gather in individual Sisters she came across who seemed useful to her, but not a third of the Tower.

[trakand_01]

(Cadsuanne would seem to be the perfect choice as she probably already leads the 1/3 of the A.S. who are sitting out the confrontation, and she has previously been considered for the post)

And she turned it down. Now she is nearly dead - she wouldn't accept the job, and would only be a placeholder if she did. Although the idea of a third Amyrlin to reconcile the Tower isn't bad in and of itself, a compromise candidate. Just not her. Oh, and she probably does not run the other third of the Sisters. Most of them are probably going their own way and doing their own thing as ever, keeping their heads down and staying out of it, unaligned. To anyone. Cadsuane would gather in individual Sisters she came across who seemed useful to her, but not a third of the Tower.

 

... Verin? she's already using her own brand of compulsion to make the sisters obey Rand.

[Ahaz Flagg]

I think that when the Seanchan attack the Wite Tower, it will be Egwene and Tuon who work together to stop the battle, and with Tuon's help they will slap the cabbage Eldia down like the gnat she is. Egwene will heal the tower, and with her edits, anyone who can channel will be part of the tower. In so doing, Egwene will become the most powerful leader the white tower has ever had.

 

Also at some point, after Taim and Logain do battle at the Black Tower grounds, Logain will gain the leadership of all of the Asha'men who are not Taim's lapdogs.  The Asha'men and the Aes Sedai will come to some sort of comprmise and become one force.

 

And Lastly, some one will get sick of Faile and channel her to a crisp.  (hehe)

[trakand_01]

Also at some point, after Taim and Logain do battle at the Black Tower grounds, Logain will gain the leadership of all of the Asha'men who are not Taim's lapdogs.  The Asha'men and the Aes Sedai will come to some sort of comprmise and become one force.

 

Granted i'm a girl and i like action movies but am i the only one who would love to see a slow-mo of Rand at the front of a 'chevron' (<) of people marching out to battle at TG... Rand, with Mat at one shoulder, Perrin at the other, Logain behind Mat, Birgitte behind Perrin, a few Asha'Man, Rhuarc, Gaul, a few maidens...

 

[Mr Ares]

(Cadsuanne would seem to be the perfect choice as she probably already leads the 1/3 of the A.S. who are sitting out the confrontation, and she has previously been considered for the post)

And she turned it down. Now she is nearly dead - she wouldn't accept the job, and would only be a placeholder if she did. Although the idea of a third Amyrlin to reconcile the Tower isn't bad in and of itself, a compromise candidate. Just not her. Oh, and she probably does not run the other third of the Sisters. Most of them are probably going their own way and doing their own thing as ever, keeping their heads down and staying out of it, unaligned. To anyone. Cadsuane would gather in individual Sisters she came across who seemed useful to her, but not a third of the Tower.

... Verin? she's already using her own brand of compulsion to make the sisters obey Rand.

It doesn't really fit Verin's style so much, she is less obvious than that. Also, unless she were to compel most of the Sitters in order to get elected, why her? It just seems rather random. There are better choices. There are people among both the Tower and the Rebels who could conceivably be brought in as a compromise - someone not involved in the initial split, someone both  parties could accept. The other third would join immediately, by default in most cases. Some suggestions - Romanda is possible, she is strong, old, she was a Sitter before retiring, and became a Sitter in the rebel camp, while she is hardly perfect I think that if Egwene's lot said "anyone but Elaida" and the Tower said "anyone but Egwene" she could well try to put herself forward. Neither Reds nor Blues would be likely candidates (the rivalry between them was at the heart of the split. A Blue would upset Reds, and vice versa). A Grey possibly, any high profile Greys anyone can see fitting in? Seaine Herimon, the BA hunter is another possible (She's White, but someone who helped remove the Black Ajah from the Tower could well get a lot of support). Any other suggestions? Of course, I think Egwene remaining Amyrlin is the most likely outcome.

[DuDZiK]

If a third Amyrlin were to be chosen, likely they would pick them from among the 1/3 of the sisters that are staying to the side, and in that way avoid any bias.

 

Cadsuane only leads a handful of sisters; when she arrived in Cairhien she only had two others with her, I believe, and she has since come to control a mixture of sisters who either sided with Elaida or rebelled against her. Cadsuane would not accept it anyways, she has already told Rand that she will act in his best interest not the Towers. How could she do that if she were the Amyrlin?

[CUBAREY]

Quote:

 

think that when the Seanchan attack the Wite Tower, it will be Egwene and Tuon who work together to stop the battle, and with Tuon's help they will slap the cabbage Eldia down like the gnat she is.

 

Except Damane do not know how to travel, so the Seanchen would have to go through Andor and Cairhern to get to the White Tower. Since the black Tower is in Andor this also means fighting and beating the Black Tower.  Its possible but I do not think they have enough time before TG. After TG, depending on how things shake out is much more probable (remember nothing in Egwene's Dream specifically said that the encounter with the Seanchen would take place before TG).

[Zachary]

It would be in keeping with the books if the Seanchan captured a sister that knew how to Travel. It's always seemed that Elaida's Foretelling was too clear to the reader that it didn't say right out that the Amyrlin would be Elaida, which makes me like to think that it was written so that people would latch onto that ambiguity and that somehow Elaida would come out on top. Granted, that does not seem likely, but I do like the thought.

 

I've always thought that the Asha'man and Aes Sedai would remain seperate. In book LoC, I think it was, Nicola had a Foretelling that mentioned, "The Guardians balance the Servants".

 

Ah yes, here it is. "The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade."

-Lord of Chaos, Page 353, Second Paragraph.

 

That sentence has always appeared to me to imply that the "guardians", the Asha'man, will keep the power and influence of the "servants", the Aes Sedai, in check. I imagine that the Black Tower and White Tower will both be seperate from each other, maintaining an uneasy alliance, but doing their best to make sure neither one has too much influence in too many countries.

[Ahaz Flagg]

Quote:

 

think that when the Seanchan attack the Wite Tower, it will be Egwene and Tuon who work together to stop the battle, and with Tuon's help they will slap the cabbage Eldia down like the gnat she is.

 

Except Damane do not know how to travel, so the Seanchen would have to go through Andor and Cairhern to get to the White Tower. Since the black Tower is in Andor this also means fighting and beating the Black Tower.  Its possible but I do not think they have enough time before TG. After TG, depending on how things shake out is much more probable (remember nothing in Egwene's Dream specifically said that the encounter with the Seanchen would take place before TG).

 

They do not have to travel via land to get to the WT, they have those To'Raken or whatever, they can fly there. In fact, I am pretty certian that they are getting ready to fly there.

[CUBAREY]

They do not have to travel via land to get to the WT, they have those To'Raken or whatever, they can fly there. In fact, I am pretty certian that they are getting ready to fly there.

 

From the description we have they do not have enough Flying creatures to move all the people necessary for an assault on the White Tower. Remember they had to strip Amacadia(sp) of most of their flying Raken scouts just to help repel the attack on Tarabon. They will need to transport not only Damane and their Leash Holders but a sizable army for protection.

[Ahaz Flagg]

They do not have to travel via land to get to the WT, they have those To'Raken or whatever, they can fly there. In fact, I am pretty certian that they are getting ready to fly there.

 

From the description we have they do not have enough Flying creatures to move all the people necessary for an assault on the White Tower. Remember they had to strip Amacadia(sp) of most of their flying Raken scouts just to help repel the attack on Tarabon. They will need to transport not only Damane and their Leash Holders but a sizable army for protection.

 

I guess we will have to RAFO, but I can see them flying to attack already. :).  Remember well, that the seanchan know exactly the constrants the Aes Sedia are under. Also, they call themselves the ever victorious army, do you realy think they fear being outnumbered? how about min's viewings of all thoughs Aes Sedai being collered on the same day?

[trakand_01]

But min's viewing - was it of them being ACTUALLY collared, as Egwene was when Liandrin led them to ambush, or could it have been referring to the AS being 'collared' upon swearing fealty to Rand after Dumai's Wells?

 

I cant remember the wording of the viewing.

[Ahaz Flagg]

But min's viewing - was it of them being ACTUALLY collared, as Egwene was when Liandrin led them to ambush, or could it have been referring to the AS being 'collared' upon swearing fealty to Rand after Dumai's Wells?

 

I cant remember the wording of the viewing.

 

That I can not answer, but the way it read it looked like a coller going on and than breaking off. do not remember if min thought it had to do with seanchan or not. But, I am pretty certian it has to do with the impending Seanchan attack on the tower.  This attack is already being put together, at least that is what i get from the books.  I mean Egwene is in the tower, the seanchan are getting ready to attack, it is going to be the fulfilment of Min's veiwings, as well as Egwene's dream.

[CUBAREY]

Also, they call themselves the ever victorious army, do you realy think they fear being outnumbered?

 

They have also suffered several rather large losses recently.  Also the call themselves that because they are rather good soldiers- and as good soldiers they are aware that the channelers would need a sizable army to protect them.  Seanchen are arrogent they are not stupid.

 

Can you give a cite for Min's viewing, I think (like Trakand that it referred to the A.S. that Knelt to Rand).  The possible attack by the Seanchen on the White Tower I think is associated with Egwene's Dream which was first conditional, and second did nnot specify when (before or after TG) it woul occur.

 

This attack is already being put together, at least that is what i get from the books.  I mean Egwene is in the tower, the seanchan are getting ready to attack, it is going to be the fulfilment of Min's veiwings, as well as Egwene's dream.

 

Actually a large portion of the Seanchen forces have been lured to Almoth Plain and even the Seanchen General Staff believes it might be defeated (See end of KOD).

[Ahaz Flagg]

Also, they call themselves the ever victorious army, do you realy think they fear being outnumbered?

 

They have also suffered several rather large losses recently.  Also the call themselves that because they are rather good soldiers- and as good soldiers they are aware that the channelers would need a sizable army to protect them.  Seanchen are arrogent they are not stupid.

 

Can you give a cite for Min's viewing, I think (like Trakand that it referred to the A.S. that Knelt to Rand).  The possible attack by the Seanchen on the White Tower I think is associated with Egwene's Dream which was first conditional, and second did nnot specify when (before or after TG) it woul occur.

 

This attack is already being put together, at least that is what i get from the books.  I mean Egwene is in the tower, the seanchan are getting ready to attack, it is going to be the fulfilment of Min's veiwings, as well as Egwene's dream.

 

Actually a large portion of the Seanchen forces have been lured to Almoth Plain and even the Seanchen General Staff believes it might be defeated (See end of KOD).

 

Min cleary see's several Aes Sedai being collerd, and the collars breaking off.  How do you translate that to those Aes Sedai who swore to Rand?  not one of them were in the Towere at the time of Min's Viewings. They were all Salaidar Sisters!   

 

While I agree that Egwenes dream does not say it will before TG, at the Same time you can not say it will be after.

[CUBAREY]

Min cleary see's several Aes Sedai being collerd, and the collars breaking off.  How do you translate that to those Aes Sedai who swore to Rand?  not one of them were in the Towere at the time of Min's Viewings. They were all Salaidar Sisters!   

 

While I agree that Egwenes dream does not say it will before TG, at the Same time you can not say it will be after.

 

First, I really need a cite of Min's viewing if possible-- a book even would help.  Moreover, Mat has two A.S. tagging along that fit perfectly the description you gave.

 

Second, my hypothesis is based on the present disarray of the Seanchen, Rand's continuing need to reach a truce prior to TG, the difficulty the Seanchen would have in reaching the White Tower currently and the fact that TG will probably take place within a few months (10 books together covered 2 and 1/2 years AMOL will likely take place only a few months after the end of KOD).  The possible attack might take place before TG but that's asking a lot of the Seanchen.

[Zachary]

Min cleary see's several Aes Sedai being collerd, and the collars breaking off.  How do you translate that to those Aes Sedai who swore to Rand?  not one of them were in the Towere at the time of Min's Viewings. They were all Salaidar Sisters!

 

I'd just like to point out that the fact that they were rebels does not exclude them from Min's viewing, as the Tower had not yet broken, so they would still be in the Tower unless they were out for a reason unrelated to the rebellion.

[Ahaz Flagg]

Min cleary see's several Aes Sedai being collerd, and the collars breaking off.  How do you translate that to those Aes Sedai who swore to Rand?  not one of them were in the Towere at the time of Min's Viewings. They were all Salaidar Sisters!

 

I'd just like to point out that the fact that they were rebels does not exclude them from Min's viewing, as the Tower had not yet broken, so they would still be in the Tower unless they were out for a reason unrelated to the rebellion.

 

Thank you Zack, you are correct it was before the break..    /me looks real red in the face

 

However, I still fail to see how being collared , is anyway close to swearinf fealty to Rand.  Cubarey, if I remeber correctly it is in Book 4.  And, I also remember another Viweing Min had of the origanl Salidar emmbassy, it was those 7 Aes Sedai, minus Allana and Verin.  Min Saw them in Rands hand, which I assume is referance to the swearing.

[Thunderbomb]

Personally I dont see the Seanchen attacking the White Tower until Rand dies because I figure he will have a truce before to long with them.

 

Will probably happen, But I see the Seanchen getting thwarted because Logain probably becoming the next Tamyrlin(I am predicting Egwene and Logain rule together Amyrlin and Tamyrlin also something that has never happened before) and highly bolstering the number of one-power wielders. Plus Mat will be there(on his way back to his palace with Tuon if he does not die at TG) to help along with Bryne two of the better generals in Randland.

 

So between Logain and Egwene ruling the tower and the assistance of Mat and Bryne I predict the Seanchen will meet their match after a long assult on the city.

[CUBAREY]

In Book 4, The Shadow Rising, Chapter 1 (Seeds of Shadow) when Min gets to the White Tower she views three A.S. that will die, and Sheriam battered and bruised. Then one that will be caged. Followed (when she is taken to the Amyrlin's office) by Warders she knew would die the same day as the three A.S., some servants who bore signs of violence and then "An Aes Sedai ...appeared to have chains in the air around her, and another, crossing the corridor ahead of Min and her guide, seemed for most of those few strides to wear a silver collar around her neck". This could easily be any of the Aes Sadie we know have already been captured by the Seanchen.

[Paviel]

I also don't think that the Seanchan will conquer the White Tower... or if they try, they'll be stopped. The White Tower is in the North and/or the East, whereas the Seanchan need to conquer and unify the South and the West according to Rand.

 

However, the White Tower is one of the few remaining obstacles to Rand's unification of the North and the East, so I imagine that Rand is going to take a personal interest in what goes on there...

[Mr Ares]

I am predicting Egwene and Logain rule together Amyrlin and Tamyrlin also something that has never happened before

Of course it has never happened before. Why the hell would Logain call himself Tamyrlin? The title of Amyrlin is a corruption of Tamyrlin, after the Ring of Tamyrlin which was worn by the leader of the AS in the Age of Legends. We don't know if "Tamyrlin" was ever used as a title, we don't know if anyone even remembers the word, so why the hell would Logain use it as his title, when he could be M'Hael, which is a title with some backing in the series.

 

On to the subject of viewings and such of collars. WOTmania's FAQ gives us these:

Carlinya

 

 

For an instant, Min saw an image of a raven floating beside her [Carlinya’s] dark hair, more of a drawing of the bird than the bird itself. She thought it was a tattoo, but she did not know its meaning.

 

-The Fires of Heaven, Sallie Daera

 

 

A raven tattoo is the mark of imperial property for the Seanchan, and is forever, which does not augur well for Carlinya. She may be stilled and then captured, which would account for her being made property rather than collared as damane.

 

Edesina

 

 

To Min’s eyes, a silvery collar suddenly appeared, snug around the woman’s neck, and as suddenly seemed to shatter. Min shivered. She did not like viewings connected to the Seanchan. At least Edesina would escape somehow.

 

-The Fires of Heaven, Sallie Daera

 

 

Edesina was sent to Tarabon by the rebels and captured by the Seanchan. Mat freed her.

Rand’s Loyal Aes Sedai

 

 

“They will keep their word,” Min murmured abruptly, just as if she had read his thoughts. With an arm wrapped around his and both hands holding his sleeve, she kept her voice for his ears alone. “I just saw these five in your hand,” she added in case he did not understand.

 

-A Crown Of Swords, Ta’veren

 

 

The five were Merana, Alanna, Bera, Rafela and Faeldrin, and they are following Rand’s instructions and furthering his cause.

Sorilea and 5 of Elaida’s embassy

 

 

Among all those images spilling around Rand and the women, suddenly an aura flashed, blue and yellow tinged with green, encompassing them all [sorilea, Erian, Elza, Beldeine, Sarene and Nesune]. And Min knew its meaning. She gasped, half in surprise, half in relief…

 

“They will serve you, each in her fashion, Rand’” she said hurriedly. “I saw it.” Sorilea would serve him? Suddenly Min wondered exactly what “in her fashion” meant. The words came with the knowing, but she did not always know what the words themselves meant. But they would serve; that much was plain.

 

-The Path of Daggers, A Cup of Sleep.

 

 

This is still on-going. 'In her fashion’ appears to mean within each one’s character and motivations. They are not whole-heartedly serving Rand despite themselves as Alanna et al. are. Rand is right in thinking that this group is not as supportive as Alanna’s group.

 

It is interesting that even though Elza is a Black Ajah, the colours of the aura are bright and positive. It may indicate that Elza inadvertently assists the Light and does little to further the Shadow. For instance she killed Dashiva unknowingly.

However, Egwene gives us this:

She had dreamed of the Seanchan, too, of women in dresses with lightning bolts woven on their breasts, collaring a long line of women who wore Great Serpent rings, forcing them to call lightning against the White Tower.

 

- The Dragon Reborn, Questions

. Is that what some of you were thinking of?