Mesaana and the Tower angreal

[krelianzg]

Why, at one of the earlier Forsaken gatherings, did she make it seem like it was absolutely impossible to gain access to the angreal, sa'angreal and ter'angreal stored in the Tower?

 

We've seen numerous examples of Aes Sedai taking objects from the storerooms when they weren't supposed to (ie Pevara with the Oath Rod) without anyone immediately suspecting anything.

 

Furthermore, Fain was able to waltz in and take the dagger without much trouble. Sure, Alviarin covered for him, but she would certainly do the same for Mesaana.

 

Was Mesaana edging on the side of caution with that statement, or is she just holding out on the other Forsaken?

[Majsju]

It is quite possible that the Oath Rod was stored elsewhere, less guarded, since it is not common knowledge that it can be used to remove Oaths. It kinda has to be, since the BA appears to have quite free access to it, unless they have one of their own.

 

Fain set off an alarm when he entered. Mesaana indicates that the traps are a new thing, ie possibly not in place when Fain stole the dagger. And, she also specifically mentions that it is a trap for channellers, which would explain why Fain only set off an alarm even if the traps had been in place by then.

 

But of course Mesaana might just be lying, to prevent the others from attempting to steal something, and to hide whatever she herself might have stolen.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I definitely think Mesaana is holding out.  I mean, even if there are traps, the way to disarm those traps has to be known to the Amyrlin, and the Sitters, since they can get it to get them out if they want to.  The traps aren't inverted ... and the Black Ajah has been highly placed for millenia.  It would be ... idiocy ... of absolutely astounding proportions if Mesaana didn't know how to access them ...

[Majsju]

Well, there is the (slight, but still) possibility that Elaida was so paranoid she set all the weaves herself and did not confide in anyone. Especially since it seems the traps came into place after Fains visit.

 

If she had managed to steal even a weak angreal, would she have chickened out as she did during the cleansing, despite knowing chances are very hjigh she might pay a quite high price for such disobedience?

[krelianzg]

It's been awhile since I read Winter's Heart, but I thought she skipped the Cleansing because Traveling out of the Tower on a moment's notice would have blown her cover and ruined everything she had worked for for the last two years.

[Nerevar]

I may be being forgetful, but didn't Liandrin and co try to steal Angreal but failed whereas they were able to get to the Ter'Angreal? Or were they just ordered not to try  ??? maybe because Mesaana had already nicked the best?

[elmis]

I tend to agree with RAW here. As why she wasn't at the showdown, there could be any number of reasons for that, her cover among them. :)

 

BTW. Majsju, your signature pic is AWESOME!

[krelianzg]

Assuming she does indeed have access, it makes me wonder as to whether she'll become far more of a direct threat in AMOL, since as far as we know, she's the only Forsaken with access to sa'angreal.

[Majsju]

Even if Mesaana has managed to steal some angreal or even sa'angreal, I have this itching feeling that she will not make it to TG.

[wvlr]

It's been awhile since I read Winter's Heart, but I thought she skipped the Cleansing because Traveling out of the Tower on a moment's notice would have blown her cover and ruined everything she had worked for for the last two years.

 

I don't think that it says that.    Correct me if I am wrong, but I just read that section of CoT again & I it leaves the reason for her absense unstated.   SH did not even ask, he went strait to the punishment with a short side for Alvirn.    Was it maybe mentioned somewhere else?

 

 

Edited to add:

 

I also find it very hard to think of a valid reason for Mesaana not aquiring some of the Tower angreal either very early on or even later.    To me that would be one of her first priorities, and with her AoL abilities of masking/reversed weaves/inverted weaves and traveling, I just can not see a reasonable excuse.  Add on that the fact that Alvarin obviously has access and Mesaana could have ordered Alvarin to let her in.

 

As far as the Oath Rod goes, I doubt that it is kept in the same place because it and the Accepted Rings are frequently used in the normal business of the WT/

[RobertAlexWillis]

Well, there is the (slight, but still) possibility that Elaida was so paranoid she set all the weaves herself and did not confide in anyone. Especially since it seems the traps came into place after Fains visit.

 

I'm sorry ... but I have to believe that Mesaana can counter anything Elaida can put up ... and the Hall would have a fit if Elaida put traps that kept them out, too.

 

If she had managed to steal even a weak angreal, would she have chickened out as she did during the cleansing, despite knowing chances are very hjigh she might pay a quite high price for such disobedience?

 

Considering the amount of saidar in play, I doubt seriously that an angreal of any strength would have made her feel more secure.  The Forsaken who went all had either a modicum of personal bravery, or a cour'souvra in Moridin's hands.  I doubt that Mesaana really believed that she would get the dark and nasty from Shaidar Haran.

 

Even if Mesaana has managed to steal some angreal or even sa'angreal, I have this itching feeling that she will not make it to TG.

 

I agree.  She's ripe for a takedown.  It would be a little bit of justice if she ended up on the business end of an a'dam in the Seanchan attack on the Tower.

[trakand_01]

I know there are many theories on the identity of Mesaana (Dannelle being one of them although i'm unsure where this theory comes from?), and to be honest she is my favourite of the Forsaken purely because at my stage in the books (Book 7) i know very little about her.

 

I wondered, is it possible that she has disguised herself as a servant, so as to gain access to all of the Ajah's quarters without notice, but she cannot gain access to those purely Aes Sedai areas, such as those where the *'angreal are kept?

 

Just a thought... although i guess the idea of dignity and whether she could bear to be a servant would come into play!

[Tyrell]

IIRC we don't think she is a servant because when she meets with Alviarin and her illusion is broken she is wearing silk.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Also, when her disguise is stripped from her by Shaidar Haran, Alviarin almost recognizes her.  I doubt Alviarin even comes close to recognizing any servants.  But if she was seeing her face without an "ageless" disguise .... hmmmm ....

 

Danelle really is the most likely suspect.  Its not "open and shut" sure, but its "more than likely" sure.

[trakand_01]

Cool, and where does that theory come from? Granted i'm only on book 7 and have only read 8-10 once, but the name Dannelle meant nothing to me before i read it on this forum - does something happen to put her in the limelight later on?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Cool, and where does that theory come from?

 

Danelle is described as dreamy and friendless, making her easy to replace.  Alviarin specifically thinks of her when considering who Mesaana might be posing as in ACoS prologue.

 

Danelle was behind getting extra soldiers into the Tower disguised as masons on the day of the coup (TSR ch 47)

 

Her entire role in the coup was important, but not prominent or visible.  She did, however, smirk knowingly while it was happening ...

 

Her description fits roughly with the description of Mesaana (both are specifically described as having "big blue eyes").  Danelle appears ageless, of course, and Mesaana appears "just short of middle years", which accounts for Alviarin almost recognizing her.

 

Danelle is Brown Ajah, and Mesaana's dress was a brownish color.

 

Danelle quickly faded from even the little prominence she gained in the coup, fitting with Mesaana's manipulate from the shadows m.o.

 

Much of it is circumstantial ... in fact, it's pretty much all circumstantial, but every other suspect has alot of problems, whereas Danelle has essentially no points against her.