Why are all the Aes Sedai self-indulging jerks??

[Breaker of Light]

I just want to hear your opinion on this one. 8)

[Guest cwestervelt]

Not all of them are.  Cadsuane, Verin, Moiraine...

 

As for the ones that are, complacency is probably a large factor.  They have been at the top of the pyramid for a long time and simply think it is their due.  The pyramid is starting to collapse, and the best are coming to the front.

[Luckers]

Indeed, I'm particularily enjoying reading about Romanda deal with it. In many ways she is everything that it wrong with Aes Sedai, yet you can see her struggling with the new world, and at times coming to realise the truth... like the moments when she conciders changing her opinion on the older novices, or when she realises that Narishma wasn't afraid so much as pissed off.

 

I actually think this has been one of the most honest and interesting arcs in the books.

[RobertAlexWillis]

The general principle behind it is "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

 

The Aes Sedai have, for too long, been accountable to no one.  Basically unstoppable by anyone but themselves.  As has been pointed out, there are exceptions to the Aes Sedai arrogance, but those women are generally ones who have encountered and dealt with something outside the Tower that could humble them.  Moiraine had a relatively mild case of the A.S. arrogance, which we saw worn away by dealing with Rand.  Cadsuane had her non-A.S. teacher in the Black Hills very early on.  Egwene spent important time with the Wise Ones.  Verin has been out in the world for a long time, and seen and had to deal with things more powerful than she is.

 

Most, or at least, many, Aes Sedai had never encountered anything that could really threaten them before the events of the books.

 

Romanda is indeed, a good example of someone going through this adjustment right now.

[Davram]

I think soon the Aes Sedai will be made to be put in their place as regular people with a gift.  They have been feared for too long.

[Breaker of Light]

I mean, Elaida is like, why should any queen or king be better than the Amylarin ar whatever. All the Aes Sedai are like, show me some respect you filthy pesent. I mean, they are such jerks. They think they are so high and mighty. I really want to see Elaida get her ass kicked and then handed over to Rand to see what he does. I want him to take her into the middle of the WT and use the OP to rip her apart like Jean did in X-men, but a lot more slower and her screaming and everything. [shadow=red,left]Muhahahahahahahah!!![/shadow] [tt]FIGHT THE POWER!!![/tt]

[Guest cwestervelt]

Well, Elaida's nuts.  OK. that might be a little harsh.  Let's just say an egomaniac.

 

I didn't notice anyone denying there are Aes Sedai that are purely self-indulgent.  There are.  There are also many, more than people realize, that are not.  They are simply trapped by an image held by people both in and out of the Tower.  Call it peer pressure if you will.  Those are the Aes Sedai that are now coming to the forefront.

[Great Lord of the Dark]

Aes Sadai are jerks man. No idea what you talkin bout fool

[Sila Darklover]

The Aes Sedai can be closemouthed, and tedious with their intrigues and debates, but..."self-indulging jerks"?  Aside from Elaida the Deluded, I can't think of many who fit that description, in my opinion.  You want self-indulgent jerks, look at the Whitecloaks. 

 

>:(

[Egerog]

Most people can seem self indulgent jerks in my life

[DemandredFO]

RAW got there first power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Maybe in the beginning Aes Sedai helped and balieved they were a little above average but then they kept getting told how great they were and over 3000 years they devoloped a God complex.  Just look at our world and reverse it, Men were told for thousands of years that you're all-powerful and Men developed a God Complex.  In our world you had people like Catherine the Great and Elizabeth I that bucked the Male God Complex and the real-world god Complex has but shattered.  However, in their world the Goddess Complex hasn't had very much time to shatter.  Saidin has recently been cleansed, give it time.  I think most Aes Sedai are self-indulgent because they have been told and had it confirmed for 3000 years.  There's also the fact of the oaths, they cannot outright lie but what they do is use a healthy dosse of self-deception to allow themselves to lie.  There are exceptions to every rule, I agree with all save Egwene and don't get me started on her

[Samuraiflip05]

Hey RAW check it out.

 

<-------

 

Hit the nail on the head.  Even someone who grew up with nothing will lose much of what made them who they are when given power (wealth, fame, command, etc.)  I do disagree with the "Self indulgent"  bit.  Unless of course you consider the for the good of the WT thought.  It could be indulgent in that manner, otherwise it is simply a "Self glorifying" attitude towards those not Aes Sedai. 

 

Also Moiraine has always seemed a little more compassionate than most AS in that she offers thanks and worries about those who assist her.

[Quixotic]

Picture this : What if you were a person with powers way superior than almost everyone else , lived cloistered in an exclusive association and were bowed and scraped to by almost everyone ? How WOULD you behave?

[Samuraiflip05]

Quixotic, hence the saying about power and corruption.  Put someone in power and they either corrupt or fall, put someone in poverty and they either grow strong or break.

[Kravchenko]

or when she realises that Narishma wasn't afraid so much as pissed off.

 

Could you give me the book and chapter this happens in?  I don't recall it and would love to re-read!

 

Thanks

[RobertAlexWillis]

Its in Knife of Dreams, ch 23.

 

Romanda's POV:

 

The boy [Jahar] strode to the center of the pavilion staring at the bench where the Amyrlin's stole lay, then turned about slowly, running his gaze over the Sitters with an air of challenge.  It came to Romanda that he was unafraid, too.  An Aes Sedai held his bond, he was alone and surrounded by sisters, yet if there was a scrap of fear in him, he had it under complete control.

[Ko´bal]

The Aes Sedai arrogance and whole behavior bears a close parallell to how our own patriarcic society look like, or at least has looked.

And suddenly they discover that some men also channel, and more than they can control. But they should be controled. It´s just like how women been lookeed at in many places. Like "oh can women do that? Nah we must control them more".

So it´s my theory at least that RJ wanted to highlight this attitude by making the Aes Sedai so full of themselves.

[Kaznen]

I think the rapid rate of Asha'man growth will help knock the AS down more quickly then most people are thinking.

 

Come the first battle of TG when AS toss a couple of fire balls at the trollocs while the AM:

 

1 Move tens of thousands of soliders through gateways.

2 Rain death and destrution down on the trollocs in ways the AS couldn't fathom.

3 Then completly heal the wounded from the brink of death without them feeling tired and hungry.

 

And do all that without the "get on your knees and kiss my feet" attitude that AS have (Rand seems to discourage that) everyone will quit looking at the AS as savoirs of humanity.

 

[DemandredFO]

While I don't think it will be as simple as that, I think you may be partially correct.  All of this will feed Egwene's anger.

[Tyrell]

I really hope that Egwene gets her ego under control before she has a chance to do anything stupid, that or while attending eladia she manages to get herself executed. Better dead than shown to be a total hypocrite.

[Briwan Dragain]

Defintiely think RAW had it right with the power corrupting bit. I think it's a little deeper and more personalized, but he had some real good points.

 

Of course, were I gifted in any way I'd like to think I'd try to be as helpful as possible (I'm pretty nice and easy going now, I don't think power or money would really change that).

 

The Whitecloaks are definitely self-indulgent and full of themselves, but in some ways that can even go the same route of the Aes Sedai. After all, especially in Amadecia but in most other places as well, the Children are rarely talked down to or threatened without some severe consequences.. same as Aes Sedai and for very similar reasons.

 

I think, or at least hope, that the Asha'man will change all that when the Tower gets reformed with 'em in it. But, we'll see. The Asha'man are pretty uptight, too. Guys trained to kill and kill well.. you don't come away from that ready to help. When all is said and done though.. the three oaths destroyed, the bonding situations taken care of, and the tower forged with men and women both Aes Sedai I think it'll be all AoL over again and I'm glad for it.

 

The Aes Sedai are just a social group that's pretty powerful and feel they've saved the world time and time again and know what's best for everyone.. kinda like your parents. For the most part, they seem pretty self-indulgent and mean.. but they think they're looking out for the best interests of the Tower and for the world.

[runner1]

In answer to the OP, they have been too used to having power for 3,000 years and now here comes Rand, the Dragon Reborn, and for the first time they have to come to grips with reality that they aren't all that and a bag of potato chips. ;D 

 

The few Aes Sedai I actually liked was Moiraine, Verin, Suan, and Leane.  I'm reading Crown of Swords right now and it was nice seeing Merana and her gang knocked down a notch or two on the arrogance ladder, though Cadusne (sp?) is already getting on my nerves with her thoughts of "guiding' and "nudging" Rand in the direction she thinks is best.  I really want to know what her agenda is, I wish Moiraine comes back cuz Rand needs her bad.  Not to mention Egwene is also getting annoying, with her thoughts echoing the Aes Sedai standard of "guiding" (e.g, manipulating) others to do what they want.  I thought her time among the Wise Ones would help mold her with a non-Aes Sedai mindset, but her being raised Amyrlin and already feeling she knows what's best for Rand and everyone else, I don't know how she'll turn out. 

 

I do think the Asha'man will help smack down any Aes Sedai arrogance that rears its ugly head, a balance that was lacking because there were no organized group of male channelers for 3,000 years.  So anything that helps counter Aes Sedai influence is a good thing.:D 

[Great Lord of the Dark]

the're still jerks. "Oh look at me! I'm and Aes Sedai and I can kick your ass so bow your little head to me! I'm such an arrongant jerk that I can't even see that my actions are tearing the White Tower apart and pontentially the world. I'm so stupid that I think that I could really kidnap the Dragon Reborn because he is taking over the nations boo hoo

[Briwan Dragain]

Hahaha. Yeah, there are only a few Aes Sedai I really liked. Moiraine, Verin, Siuan, Leane, Alanna (I don't know why, she's kinda stupid.. but what she did to Rand was gutsy and I have respect for that) and... well, I'm sure there's one or two others. Cadsuane.. really.. bugs.. me.

 

BUT, for the most part.. they are jerks. Because they're like people, and I think that's what I like most about RJ's writing. You're not supposed to like everyone... although he makes most of the women real easy not to like, but that could just be (and a few hundred other people.)

 

As far as Aes Sedai go, though, they are just.. human. And you'll have bad ones and you'll have good ones. The power corrupting bit plays into that. But if you're generally a good person without the power.. when learn to channel and gain more power.. you're likely to be generally a good person.

 

Though, like runner1 said, I was really hoping that Egwene would turn out less Aes Sedai-like and more... cool.. about it. But she's fallen into the same bad situation and it makes me nervous. I realllllly wanna see a big time Asha'man and Aes Sedai.. merging. More so than they have with a few bonded here, a few bonded there.

[DemandredFO]

Like Nicola's fortelling said "the Guardians balance the Servants".  Now the Aes Sedai aren't very servant-like so we must wait and see what the gaurdians do.