Is Masema the only preacher in randland?

[GrandpaG]

I don't remember reading about any rabbi's or priests or whatever in the books.  It seems the only moral education the people get are from the gleeman's tales.  The people say catacisms about their beliefs.  It just seems strange that there are no evangalists other than Masema.

??? ::) :-\

[callandor]

he's not a preacher!~ he's the phrophet of the great Dragon Reborn! lordof the Morning! Rand Al'Thor!

 

 

um, and no, he's the only preacher.

[Charlz Guybon]

I don't remember reading about any rabbi's or priests or whatever in the books.  It seems the only moral education the people get are from the gleeman's tales.  The people say catacisms about their beliefs.  It just seems strange that there are no evangalists other than Masema.

??? ::) :-\

The Children of Light certainly count as a religious order, as do the Aes Sedai.

[Luckers]

In many ways, as a society, Randland society is much more similar to very early confucianist China, or perhaps early Bonic. They don't maintain the archetypes of what westerners would call religion, and yet they very much have a ritualistic sequence of beliefs and actions, as well as a certain amount of animism or even shamanism, and the function of such cultures is that with a religion based so closely in percievable life, there is little to no need for religious services.

 

Recall that whilst modern structured religion mostly covers the earth this day, in terms of religions throughout time such structure is more the oddity than the norm.

[Darth_Andrea]

Masema saw Rand go all Lord Dragon and becamed unhinged, Perrin brought some wolfs and Masema had a religious experiance that broke his hindges the rest of the way. In short he has gone totaly ALMONDS.

 

 

Darth_Andrea

[GrandpaG]

Masema saw Rand go all Lord Dragon and becamed unhinged, Perrin brought some wolfs and Masema had a religious experiance that broke his hindges the rest of the way. In short he has gone totaly ALMONDS.

 

 

Darth_Andrea

 

 

MAYBE.  OR MAYBE HE IS THE ONLY SANE ONE.

 

edit:  ;)

[Darth_Andrea]

Masema saw Rand go all Lord Dragon and becamed unhinged, Perrin brought some wolfs and Masema had a religious experiance that broke his hindges the rest of the way. In short he has gone totaly ALMONDS.

 

 

Darth_Andrea

 

 

MAYBE.  OR MAYBE HE IS THE ONLY SANE ONE.

 

 

Ok Maybe Almonds was to harsh...How about Cashew's?....Pecan's?

 

 

Darth_Andrea

 

[Majsju]

There are no preachers because there is no religion in Randland. The Creator and the DO exists, it's not a matter of faith.

 

Or as RJ put it,

 

This is a world where what might be called the proofs of religion are self-evident all the time. It seemed to me there was no necessity for the trappings of religion which by and large are to reinforce us in our faith.. and to convince others... if your beliefs are made concrete and manifest around you at any given time there is not the need for that.

[Vemynal]

religion doesn't have to believe in a higher power, but mostly just has to be a collection of believes, morals and values seen in a culture.

 

An example I can think of is Confucianism & Aiel Je'i'toh. All Aiel follow their honor and obligation, its a believe that is personified throughout their culture

[Luckers]

The definition of religion, incidently, is the ritualized aspects of life. Just thought i'd throw that out there since people are often confused, thinking of religion as involving a Sky Bully and a Big Book of Stories. It can have those things, but not always, or even often.

[Davram]

Masema is probably the only preacher and as Darth Andrea pointed out, he has gone ALMONDS.  When Perrin smelled him, it was confirmed.

[Charlz Guybon]

Masema is probably the only preacher and as Darth Andrea pointed out, he has gone ALMONDS.  When Perrin smelled him, it was confirmed.

There must be others like him though, one of Cadsuane's Aes Sedai thought to herself that Elza sounded like a crazed street preacher on the subject of Rand.

[walkerhound]

there's also not much need for preachers (and most of them would probably be the crazy street variety) because aside from concrete evidence (you say the dark one's name and ya feel it!) there also seams to be vary little variation in the religions’ beliefs in randland.  take the catechisms that we hear different people say, there all the same.  From the border lands to the sea of storms same sayings learned by rote.  what miner deference’s that do apare like the boarder landlers burial customs are fairly miner.

[Mazrim]

The Tuatha,an are outwardly spoken about the way of the leaf and try to convert people who might stay with them  i.e when Elyas,Perrin and Egwene are staying with them.

[Guest cwestervelt]

The try to get people to convert to their way of life.  I don't really see that as preaching.  For one thing, they wait for others to come and ask questions, their not giving regular speeches in the hope people will come and listen.

[TheRedSon]

The word "preacher" confuses the issue here.  When we say "preacher" in western culture today we're thinking of a blending of two religious traditions.  That of the prophet and the priest.  Randland has both, but few characters we've met in Randland are wearing both hats.

 

There are priests all over the place.  AS, wisdoms, gleemen, wise ones, mayors, kings, queens, generals, windfinders, ogier, nym...  Very few of them are "preaching," but they are consistently going about the business of providing priestly services.  They are tending their flocks, bridging the gap with nature, history and their Creator as best they can.  They are healing, performing rituals (weddings and funerals) and blessing the people.

 

Prophets, by their very nature, are seldom tolerated in society.  It's why we don't have many today.  Oh, we have plenty of preachers, but very few prophets.  Prophets make us uncomfortable so we arrest them, persecute them and assassinate them.  Even though they nominally fill the prophet's role in our society most preachers aren't brave enough to truely be prophets.  Being a prophet isn't exactly profitable or a wise career choice for a family man.  I'm not saying that preachers are greedy, but most of them are keenly aware that they shouldn't offend those that pay the bills.

[GrandpaG]

It is strange for my westernized brain to imagine a world where it is possible to have strong social beliefs without a recognizeable organization (churches).  But, as long as the people live by their beliefs and have someone to perform weddings and funerals I guess that's OK.  They get their training from their peers and from the stories.  The stories come from legends, myths, etc.

 

Now, hold on there just one minute!  The Aes Sedai control the prophesies.  They pull the puppet strings to make the real world match what they have predicted.  Are they in charge of what the people believe?  Like creating a false dragon to make themselves look good when they capture and gentle the poor bugger?  People's beliefs are directly influenced by Aes Sedai scheming.  Why does this bother me?

[Darth_Andrea]

From what the books seem to say. It seems alot of it is maintained by the women of the world, In many ways the Nations in RandLand seem to be based on something like matrichial socities. The women do in many cases seem to have more power and authority generaly than men do. Women's circles, Queens, WiseOnes, example after example of Women with more authority than men, and they seem to inforce in many cases the teaching of the light.

 

 

Darth_Andrea

[Elwinn Taron]

Uh, Grandpa G, you do know the Reds didn't really set up Logain, right? :-\

[GrandpaG]

Uh, Grandpa G, you do know the Reds didn't really set up Logain, right? :-\

 

 

Yup.  There were others.

[Elwinn Taron]

Who?

[Luckers]

We have no evidence to suggest that any of the false dragons were set up or supported by the Tower, though one of Guaire Amalasan's Leuitenants was rumoured to be a renegade Aes Sedai, but since she actually led forces to attack the Tower i rather doubt she was faking it.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Indeed.  The idea that Guaire Amalasan, Yurian Stonebow, Raolin Darksbane, and others were set up by the Tower is one of the things Ba'alzamon tried to use to scare Rand into following him. 

 

Ba'alzamon is not on my list of people who I feel comfortable believing ... to put it ridiculously mildly.

 

Amalasan was probably set up by the Pattern to set the stage for Hawkwing.  As to the others, we don't have enough history to say for sure, but I doubt very much that the Tower was involved with them except to take them down.

 

Amalasan's channeling lieutentant, the rumored renegade Aes Sedai, may well have been a Black Ajah plant, if she really was a former Sister.  Ishy was setting the table for The Trolloc Wars, Round Two.  The Pattern probably ta'veren-ized Hawkwing, at least in part, to stop him.  So, if anyone was using Amalasan, it was the Shadow, not the Tower.

[Guest cwestervelt]

The Logain being set up by the Red Ajah was simply a scheme that Siuan came up with as a way to get revenge on Elaida.  Logain went along with it because, while he would have preferred getting revenge on all Aes Sedai, he was willing to settle for the Reds.  The Salidar Aes Sedai bought it because they never stopped to think about the fact that Siuan might not be still held by the Oaths.

[Luckers]

Amalasan's channeling lieutentant, the rumored renegade Aes Sedai, may well have been a Black Ajah plant, if she really was a former Sister.  Ishy was setting the table for The Trolloc Wars, Round Two.  The Pattern probably ta'veren-ized Hawkwing, at least in part, to stop him.  So, if anyone was using Amalasan, it was the Shadow, not the Tower.

 

I don't know, the story of her actions sound very much like a true believer. My guess is that if she truly were Aes Sedai than she truly did believe that Guire Amalasan was the Dragon, and acted on it.