a'dams and the three oaths

[Tommytroll]

i was just wondering how the sul'dam can make the damane who used to be Aes Sedai use the one power as a weapon against other people as we know that the still cant lie, sorry i dont have the books at hand to find the quote.

 

sorry if this has been asked before.

[trakand01]

How far through the books have you read? Its an interesting question and if it has been asked before, I havent seen the thread. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that it isnt the Damane / Aes Sedai CHOOSING to do harm, rather being forced by the Sul'dam? Perhaps it also has something to do with the Sul'dam's own 'abilities' and the fact that she was not bound by the Oath Rod?

[Guest cwestervelt]

There are threads about this, but I don't feel like looking for them one.

 

In brief, Aes Sedai damane can't be used as weapons.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Week 21 Question: Just how can an Aes Sedai be a damane? Aren't they bound by the Third Oath: to not use the One Power as a weapon except to defend their lives, their Warder's life, or another sister's life? Wouldn't they be useless as damane to the Seanchan?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: The Aes Sedai captured by the Seanchan are indeed useless as weapons, except against Shadowspawn or Darkfriends, because they are bound by the Three Oaths, and that limits their value considerably since being weapons is a major use for damane. Damane are used for other tasks, however, including finding ores for mining (Egwene was tested for this, remember; it's a very valuable, and fairly rare, ability), for some mining operations where it would be too dangerous or uneconomical to use human miners (bringing ores out of the ground and refining them using the Power), and in some construction projects, especially where something very large or with a need for added strength is envisioned. The first two both require a high ability in Earth, which has faded considerably on "this" side of the Aryth Ocean and to a smaller degree of the other side, but construction projects and others things, such as producing Sky Lights, are well within the abilities of collared Aes Sedai. The Three Oaths don't inhibit them there at all.

 

http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=152

[TurboZ]

Well not to go against RJ since he worte the story and all, but can't Aes Sedai use the power if their own lives are in danger? If they are collared and disobey a sul'dam that could put their health in severe jeopardy which would allow them to use the Power as a weapon.

[Majsju]

They would be able to use the power as a weapon against the ones directly threatening their lives, ie the suldam. For obvious reasons, they can't do that no matter how much the oath allows it.

[Charlz Guybon]

Well not to go against RJ since he worte the story and all, but can't Aes Sedai use the power if their own lives are in danger? If they are collared and disobey a sul'dam that could put their health in severe jeopardy which would allow them to use the Power as a weapon.

 

Damane aren't usually put in a position where their lives would be in jeporday, they're much to valuable, both in a tactical and monetary sense to risk.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Not to mention that putting the Damane in harms way would require the Sul'dam to go in harms way too.  As if that would ever happen.

[jaldy]

They would be able to use the power as a weapon against the ones directly threatening their lives, ie the suldam. For obvious reasons, they can't do that no matter how much the oath allows it.

 

I believe they could hurt their sul'dam, it would also result in their own injury

or death as well.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Well, what Maj was saying was that the pain experienced when trying to harm your sul'dam would be enough to keep you from harming her at all. Embracing the source without permission would probably be excruciating.

[drunkengrizzly]

i do recall the most recent thread on this topic.  it turned into a tussel over whether or not the third oath allowed Aes Sedai to kill darkfriends, or shadowspawn exclusively.  but the doctrine is that all channelers must be leashed. so why collar aes sedai?  because they're dangerous, and no better than dogs like the rest of the marath damane, their usefulness as weapons doesn't even need to be considered.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Well, what Maj was saying was that the pain experienced when trying to harm your sul'dam would be enough to keep you from harming her at all. Embracing the source without permission would probably be excruciating.

 

For those curious about how bad the effects are:

 

Any pain the damane would inflict on the sul'dam is transimtted through the a'dam at twice as hard (The Great Hunt Chapter 40:  Damane.  Page 478.

 

Egwene started to get ill trying to channel even the smallest trickle without permission.  The more they channel the worse it gets.  The Great Hunt Chapter 42:  Falme.  Page 502.

[Charlz Guybon]

Well, what Maj was saying was that the pain experienced when trying to harm your sul'dam would be enough to keep you from harming her at all. Embracing the source without permission would probably be excruciating.

 

For those curious about how bad the effects are:

 

Any pain the damane would inflict on the sul'dam is transimtted through the a'dam at twice as hard (The Great Hunt Chapter 40:  Damane.  Page 478.

 

 

 

Doesn't matter if you're willing to stand the pain like the Aiel. I fear that a whole bunch of Suldam are in store for some fatal or crippling injuries at hands of the Shaido Wise Ones.

[Luckers]

Oh I am desperately looking forward to finding out what happens with the Wise One damane. It's going to be awesome.

 

That being said though, no matter how resistant you are to pain, there is a level where it simply incapacitates you. Besides, the Aiel method is not to be resistant to it, so much as a to absorb it, welcome it, and own it. They almost never break, but it doesn't nessasarily mean they go forward with normal life in the face of such pain.

 

Still...

 

Sul'dam: And I will call you my little Cali. Come now Cali, don't laugh at me. Now i have to discipline you.... Why are you still laughing? It's just going to get worse. Stop laughing. Stop it! Oh great, now you're singing! Stop it! STOP IT I SAY!

 

hehehe.

[Guest cwestervelt]

I think the Sul'dam would eventually win.  They are finding Randland to be a happy hunting ground for marath'damane.  As a result, I doubt they would figure loosing one or two to be a major blow.  Once a couple Wise Ones see someone like Therava reduced to permanently gibbering shell of who she was, the others would probably get the picture.

[Luckers]

I'm not saying that they probably wouldn't eventually break, just that its going to be an interesting struggle.

 

In the end i imagine it will be more treating them as animals that will undo the Wise Ones, than the physical pain. We all know Aiel find humiliation much more unbearable than actual injury.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Hadn't even thought about that part.  They see being a servant as bad.  Now they are worse than servants.  They are possessions.

[Charlz Guybon]

I think the Sul'dam would eventually win.  They are finding Randland to be a happy hunting ground for marath'damane.  As a result, I doubt they would figure loosing one or two to be a major blow.  Once a couple Wise Ones see someone like Therava reduced to permanently gibbering shell of who she was, the others would probably get the picture.

Suldam are in close proximity to their damane. Someone like Therava would simply knife head the Suldam in the throat and that would be that. They both die but Therava would die happy.

 

I will note however, that Therava was not caught.

[Guest cwestervelt]

I know Therava wasn't caught.  Just using her as an example of the type to break.  And she would never be able to knife hand the sul'dam in the throat.  That would require thinking of her hand as a weapon, and then the a'dam clamps down.  She wouldn't be able to use that hand again until she convinced herself it could never be used as a weapon.  Just like happened with Egwene and the wash basin.  The sul'dam would probably force her to use that hand for all her eating until she learned her lesson.  Egwene only got away with the punch because it wasn't contemplating serious harm.

[Davram]

You are right cwestervelt the suldam will win.  All would have to break sooner or later

[Despair]

But it has been proven that all oaths placed on the oath-rod can be removed (only using the rod). We know now that there is more than one oath-rod.  Who is to say the Seanchan dont have one?

 

Bow Pura, Bow!  The Seanchan rule when they have a black sister!  Just wait till the last book when they figure out how to get free!

 

 

[Davram]

Lol

[Charlz Guybon]

I know Therava wasn't caught.  Just using her as an example of the type to break.  And she would never be able to knife hand the sul'dam in the throat.  That would require thinking of her hand as a weapon, and then the a'dam clamps down.  She wouldn't be able to use that hand again until she convinced herself it could never be used as a weapon.  Just like happened with Egwene and the wash basin.  The sul'dam would probably force her to use that hand for all her eating until she learned her lesson.  Egwene only got away with the punch because it wasn't contemplating serious harm.

Aiel think of their entire bodies as weapons, somehow I doubt the adam will render all these women totally nonfunctional.

[Davram]

SUl'dam completely control their damane. 

[Guest cwestervelt]

I know Therava wasn't caught.  Just using her as an example of the type to break.  And she would never be able to knife hand the sul'dam in the throat.  That would require thinking of her hand as a weapon, and then the a'dam clamps down.  She wouldn't be able to use that hand again until she convinced herself it could never be used as a weapon.  Just like happened with Egwene and the wash basin.  The sul'dam would probably force her to use that hand for all her eating until she learned her lesson.  Egwene only got away with the punch because it wasn't contemplating serious harm.

Aiel think of their entire bodies as weapons, somehow I doubt the adam will render all these women totally nonfunctional.

 

You might doubt it, but that doesn't change matters.  The a'dam will not let a damane use anything she looks at as a weapon.