M and Ps

[Breaker of Light]

From what i have heard, perrin is the prince of Manetheren. And the prince of the Wolf peoples.

[Majsju]

Manetheren is long dead and buried.

 

As for being prince of wolves, that would indicate Perrin actually having any auihority over them, and we've seen that they only help, or even talk to him when they feel like it.

[lou]

well, i guess perrin may have the blood of manetherin, but likewise so does matt. there is no kingdom to be prince of...

Manetheren is long dead and buried.

 

As for being prince of wolves, that would indicate Perrin actually having any auihority over them, and we've seen that they only help, or even talk to him when they feel like it.

 

yes, the wolves, in every encounter, have had the option of helping or not. in the matter of rand-in-the-box, the wolves chose to help because "they caged shadowkiller" not because perrin asked them to.

[callandor]

yeah, hopper in TAR is always telling perrin not to do something- he's so negative!  ::)- but perrins to stubborn.

[algspkr]

Perrin might be a prince of Saldea, but definately not of the wolves or Mantheren.

[Darkness Incarnated]

My memory is sketchy, but doesn't the Seanchan woman in KoD say something about the 'wolfking' or something like that, from the prophecies? Or was it about the hammer? I can't remember.

Perrin doesn't command the wolves, he can only ask for help and they will decide.

[Guest cwestervelt]

It may have been Tuon that mentioned the Wolfking.

 

It was Verin that mentioned the hammer when she asked Perrin something about when he was going to decide between the axe and the hammer.

[Darkness Incarnated]

No, the other Seanchan woman captain Perrin meets, the one who helped him get that herb that makes people who can channel drowsy (I forgot the name).

 

She mentions it before/after the bubble of evil, I believe it was either Perrin's yellow eyes or the hammer or both that prompted her to ask him whether he was the [wolfking], something to do with him coming as a sign of the Last Battle. I think there is a mention to Matt as well.

[Breaker of Light]

read the thing about the wolf kin. if it's true, then perrin should be the prince of manetheren and the wolf people. The wolf gene was dormat in the two rivers line, when it finally came out in perrin. Yeah, that one lady did say something about a wolfking. Plus, perrin's family has lived in the two rivers all of their life. Perrin is one of my favorite characters. And so is min, and mat, and tuon, and loial, and rand, and shai'tan, and moridin, and aveindhada. Well I think that perrin is heir to the throne of manetheren and the wolfkin.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Manetheren is dead. And besides, he couldn't be heir, unless he was descended from Aemon and Ellisande.

 

I dont think Elayne would allow Manetheren to be independent.

 

And wolfking is basically King of Saldaea plus wolfbrother.

[drunkengrizzly]

wolfking is in the seanchan prophecy, but it is not literal.  perrin will lead the wolves into the last battle, or seem to to an outside party.  wolfking serves to shorten the explanation for the sake of the cryptic prophecy.  as for manetheren, perrin flying that flag was a political move on the part of his idiot wife.  perrin is a ta'veren, and a huge guy with a hammer that talks to wolves, other than that...

[Breaker of Light]

seriously, go read the thing about the wolfkin org or something like that. it supposedly explains everything. Something about the leader of the wolfmen in manetheren married the daughter of the king and queen when they were allies, and when the trollocs attacked they moved down into the area. the wolf gene stayed dormat in the line until perrin.

 

and manetheren is not dead. it lives on in the two rivers people. they are the pure manetheren blood. the people in edmonds field are living on the grave of king aemon.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Um, there were no Wolfbrothers in Manetheren.

 

Manetheren existed for approximately 1000-1200 years as part of the Compact of Ten Nations.  It was destroyed during the Trolloc Wars (approx. 2000-2300 years ago).  There were no Wolfbrothers at that time.  Being a Wolfbrother is a new ability for this Age, per Robert Jordan.  And however Ages are defined, I don't think that anyone will argue that Manetheren is from a different Age.

 

(Please, please don't let there be anyone who will argue that Manetheren is from a different Age ... )

 

So, the Wolfkin Org notwithstanding, Perrin did not become a Wolfbrother by virtue of his bloodline.  And Manetheren is dead.  Long dead and not coming back.  Especially with the recent changes in "edmonds field", they won't be a pure bloodline for long.

 

The Hammered Bear is right, Perrin was just using the flag of Manetheren as a distraction.  He has no intention of reviving that nation.  Because its dead.

[Cadsuane]

I don't think those titles have to be taken so literally. He doesn't have to technically be a prince of Manetheren or a king of the wolves to be an important figure in relation to both. These are prophecies and such that people are speaking of when they bring up those titles, so I always took them to be an indication that he is related to each in an important way, nothing more solid than that.

 

He IS and has been in charge of the people of Emond's Field that was Manetheren, and he most likely will loosely lead/encourage the wolves to fight at TG. In prophetical (is that a word?) rather than technical terms, I think both of those positions merit the titles he's been given.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

(Please, please don't let there be anyone who will argue that Manetheren is from a different Age ... )

 

Manetheren is from a different age. The upheaval caused by the Trolloc Wars is what started the second age. After that, the War of the Hundred Years brought a close to that age and began the third age.

[algspkr]

(Please, please don't let there be anyone who will argue that Manetheren is from a different Age ... )

 

Manetheren is from a different age. The upheaval caused by the Trolloc Wars is what started the second age. After that, the War of the Hundred Years brought a close to that age and began the third age.

LoL

[Cadsuane]

The widely accepted timeline says that the Age of Legends was the second age, while the third age encompassed everything after the Breaking, which includes Manetheren. The Trolloc Wars and the War of the Hundred Years both occurred in the third age. I'm not sure where Ealdur's timeline comes from.

 

BUT, don't talk about this here, RAW is vehement about his position on this topic and it will throw this whole thread off course.  ;D

[Majsju]

That Perrin is mentioned as the "wolf king" in the prophecies is basically him being the most prominent wolf brother participating in TG. his leadership is however limited to "hey guys, what would you think about doing this?..."

To the wolves, he is not exactly alpha male, rather a newly adult member of the pack whose idea might be worth listening to at the best.

 

And Cad, I'm quite sure Ealdur was joking just to annoy RAW :)

 

[Cadsuane]

Oh thank goodness...  :D

[bcxanth]

seriously, go read the thing about the wolfkin org or something like that. it supposedly explains everything. Something about the leader of the wolfmen in manetheren married the daughter of the king and queen when they were allies, and when the trollocs attacked they moved down into the area. the wolf gene stayed dormat in the line until perrin.

 

Ok, you need to take a step back for a second here. :)  The Orgs are great and all, but they are not canon.  What you're referring to is a piece of fanfiction and really nothing more.  It's useful for the Org here on DM, but it's not something you can use as a basis of fact for an argument like this.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Oh thank goodness...  :D

 

No need to worry, I was in fact, joking. :)

[RobertAlexWillis]

Yeah, its all good.  Actually, I'm much more likely to get grumpy about people going Manetheren crazy in this thread than I am to rant about my Age-turning criteria.  Manetheren is a great story guys, but, much like Malkier, it ain't coming back.

 

And bcxanth is right.  Its a cool idea for Wolfkin roleplay (or whatever they do there) but while I'm not trying to spike their wheel (or is it Wheel?) there's nothing like Ye Olde Manetherenese Wolfbrothers Association in the actual story.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Well, technically, there may not have been this time, but it could happen or could have happened in another revolution of the Wheel...

[Digbe]

He IS and has been in charge of the people of Emond's Field that was Manetheren, and he most likely will loosely lead/encourage the wolves to fight at TG. In prophetical (is that a word?) rather than technical terms, I think both of those positions merit the titles he's been given.

 

The wolves made mention of the Last Hunt to Perrin first...

 

But as a human might see it a man leading an army with the banner of manetheran might be seen as prince of manetheran, Big hammer=BIG hammer.  Yellow eyes, according to apparent seanchan knowledge may indicate speaks w/wolves. 

If a man controls an army, and you think he might have a chance to become royalty but not yet king; then he would be Prince or some other title rather than King of Maneth.  Wolfking is simply symbolic as everyone has previously stated.

 

Don't mind me, I'm working for 4000 post so I too can become a ...hmmm... Member 8)

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Wait, what happens when you get 4 thousand posts?