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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

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  • RP - PLAYER
Posted
  On 6/1/2025 at 10:28 PM, Darthe said:

So I’ve been called garbage twice, a disappointment, and told “I thought you were good” here. Obvious bait is obvious.  If you’re content with losing every round you play that’s on you, but it deserves just policy lynching you and taking the handicap.  I see nothing town aligned here, in motivation or process.  Further, I think you’re skirting by on people who accept any slop you pump out, but it’s not in my interest to do so.  
 

tldr, we need to lynch heavy.  Read this post, townies in this thread should’ve had called this one out by now but you’re all too content to let it slide by.

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Words have meaning, Darthe. I said it was your reads that were garbage, and it was a disappointment to read your post. It is kind of hilarious that after getting burned and deaded for taking the position of "Git gud, noob" and offering to teach me how to play last game when I sussed you, you are now taking the injured position of "Heavy is being mean to me". Isn't a good look, especially not when you are also calling me a serial loser and claiming that I'm so bad that I should be policy lynched every game.

 

I see you have built on your garbage raisin-free case of "these are wolf posts, this is a wolf" by calling my posts "slop" that any townie worth their salt can tell is from a wolf.

 

Still completely free of any reasons as to how my reasoning or behaviour has anything to do with alignment at all except for "trust me, bro". I repeat, this is total garbage.

Posted
  On 6/2/2025 at 4:01 AM, Shad_ said:

  

 

SD brings it up first.  That complicates things.

 

 

Turin was giving a full overview of mech and bus driver was already on the table.  He didn't raise it out of the blue.  Unfortunate because I like easy solutions.

 

I dunno man Turin's headspace is just so inaccessible to me in this game.

 

I had my longer post about it earlier which he didn't offer a response to.

 

But here too there's no gusto.  Like ok Turin must have had pretty firm convictions about SD on D1 given I was hopping and shouting about don't lynch SD don't lynch SD and he was all nah that guy is definitely the best lynch candidate.  He didn't miss it because he commented on it.  Now you've got a difference check between yourself and your top wolf read, someone you're already invested in.  Where's the vindication?  You nailed it and stuck to your guns in the face of opposition and voted a wolf D1 right?  Like, hell yeah right?  You aren't voting him because it's mechanically optimal because there was a difference check and you know you're town and the probability of bus driver is yadda yadda.  Come on.  That's your pelt.  There's no joy in it.  It's so mechanical and dispassionate.

 

We all express ourselves differently but I expect a little fist pump somewhere.  Vs a wolf here wants to ride the upper hand they have going into it and try to avoid a thunderdome at all costs.  Could just be a bus driver but this is the best lead we got yeah right your top suspect just got difference checked with you.

 

I don't like it.  What makes it hard is SD kinda did the same thing.  SD was never pushing Turin, so there's that.  The wolf SD I saw skimming the last game didn't hesitate to call people wolves aggressively, so there's that.  Hmm....

 

There was a post in a game I helped Ithi do VCs in where I read one sentence out of Turin's mouth and said he's town for this.  I'm going to go find it.  I need to get my head back into how he thinks.

 

 

 

 

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I'm really really trying to be kinder gentler, less snarky Turin. Besides,  you don't do the griddy (TD celebration) when it's 1st and 10 at the opponents 15 yard line. You do it when you've scored. There is still work to be done to get that pelt on the wall. I've stated my case D1  and DM was a muthafluffa yesterday.

 

So yeah...

Posted
  On 6/2/2025 at 7:14 AM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Absolutely 🥰

 

@SinisterDeath my apologies for allowing my frustration to show, and please don't think that I am telling you how to play, or how you are allowed to play or post.

 

If I can try to rephrase my point in a less abrasive way, I feel making posts purely about possibilities is muddying the waters. I appreciate people showing their thought processes but at the same time posting a lot of maybe this or maybe the opposite, isn't showing any progression, is showing what you actually think about something and isn't something that anyone can get a read on except for the feeling that someone is being deliberately vague and longwinded to have a thread presence without actually giving reads they can be judged on or held accountable for at a later date. I hope that is a clearer way of making my point.

 

Of course, you do you, absolutely and without qualification.

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I dunno Heavy. Your post is kinda long.

 

Also natural thought progression is good to see. I like it cos it means people aren't worried about making mistakes or being cautious. Sinister doing this still is making him more and more Town for me.

Posted
  On 6/2/2025 at 1:23 AM, Darthe said:

Damn.  I'd hoped you would bite on this.  My not-quite-a-threat post is one most players would react to but a lot of wolves might get contest.  I'll count it as null for now and recognize that I lost some advantage there in effectively coaching you on how to get out of this if you are wolfing.  

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I never like it when you say things like this. It'd a subtle way to cast Shade. Like I need coaching on how to play this game dude. 

  • RP - PLAYER
Posted
  On 6/1/2025 at 10:36 PM, Darthe said:

Oh did Ed claim the shot on heavy?

 

I must’ve missed that.  Cool beans, heavy’s a wolf so Ed is town.

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Your read on me (that has no reasoning whatsoever) is so good that you are clearing someone that is confident enough to shoot someone, but not vote and admits is not current in the thread. This is what I am talking about garbage reads, they don't have anything to the actual game. Ed has made no case against me, explained to reads, given no reasoning. But you are clearing him because you want me dead for reasons that you aren't willing to share. Where do you both get this confidence? The only place I can see is if you are on the mafia/symp side of things. Town has to work things out from reasoning and reads, something completely lacking from both of you.

Posted
  On 6/2/2025 at 4:33 AM, Shad_ said:

 

Hmm

 

Mentalist has wolf utility to find a lost partner.

 

Could have even truthfully used it on Sinister and Turin since no one is going to question an investigative on Sinister and wolves could have viably thought Turin was their lost guy.  Might have just lied about the results because oOoOoOoOo a bus driver exists we still have plausible deniability.

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I'm pretty sure a symp (lost wolf) shows as town on investigation checks so I don't think this is true. The role states they are town that win with mafia. I guess I could be wrong,  but I don't think so in this case.

 

I don't really see how Mentalist has wolf utility. I mean it takes it away from town use, and as we have seen, the role itself is self confirming. It could be just an easy place to allow a wolf to hide and guarantee a town lynch before the eyes and pitchforks get turned on the Mentalist. Throw in extra kills and it could run the clock. Now I'm doubting myself. Stupid pirate and his tricksy game.

 

I still think SD is a Wolf though.

  • RP - PLAYER
Posted
  On 6/1/2025 at 10:45 PM, Darthe said:

This post has me worried that you don’t understand the role claim.

 

There’s no (logical) choice in accepting the claim.  Its mod confirmed that the role was used, I claimed proactively before the role was realized to be used in the OP. and I’m not CCd.  That’s as confirmed as anything you’ll ever see in a mafia game, short of an IC or mod error.

 

This means that your only options regarding the Turin/SD wagons are to believe the ability results were compromised or to believe that one of them is a wolf.  There are complex reasons to believe it wasn’t messed with, but suffice it to say it is improbable enough to not chase those ideas down unless we get better info to support that notion.

 

Mathematically, a 50/50 to get a wolf is enough that in a high level game the players never go outside of those two options in a day.

 

the TLDR here is that WIFOMing on the ability use or on lynching outside of those two is low level play.  I’m not saying that as an attack.  I’m saying it because I need you to not be a liability, and I want you to understand where your decision making above is flawed.  I am trying to help the decision making above improve.  On the plus, this does look very townie for you.

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Here Darthe again is using the argument, "you don't know how to play, do what I say or you are a liability".

 

While the information about his claim certainly holds up, the argument that Gud or anyone therefore must believe his claim about Turin/Sinister as true is simply not true at all. Not even taking into account the bus driver. Hilarious "complex reasons", I presume too complex to go into with such poor players as us? We'll just take your word for it then.

 

Darthe has just come into thread and with very little reasoning attacked most people who don't agree with him. Ithi he loves but she is completely wrong. He needs Gud not to be a liability. (Note these are the two as good as confirmed Townies so long as no one CCs, which probably should have happened by now if it was going to.) I'm an obvious wolf for obvious yet unstated reasons (and still no explanation for the flyby vote). Ed is solid town because he shot me without voting or being current in the thread. Peace is trying solve when he is arguing about flavour of the scenes when the mechanics make it 100% clear what went down, and he is obviously town as he has multiple posts that Darthe claims would be difficult to make as a wolf even though other experienced players don't see this.

 

I still don't get the "Darthe gonna Darthe" as some free pass to do things without a case, without reasons. Darthe is trying to turn around the entire narrative and his sole argument is that it is so obvious that we all should see it, no further explanation necessary. I'm still waiting for anyone to come up with an explanation of how this could be town behaviour, and that invitation is also open to Darthe himself. 

 

Or is it all just "complex reasons" that no one else will understand?

Posted
  On 6/2/2025 at 7:35 AM, Turin Turambar said:

I'm pretty sure a symp (lost wolf) shows as town on investigation checks so I don't think this is true.

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I think this too. I think it would be hilarious if the Mentalist check looked up a Mafia AND the Symp. 

 

Sinister says he's hinted at his role? I'm gonna have to read through this whole Thread and for that H8U Sinister.

 

I think maybe another look at the End of Day 1 voting needs to be done, to see who unvoted Heavy... *cough NOT Peace* and who did unvote and who seemed comfortable voting for Teph and when they voted etc. Shame we don't got Zander and his deadly Voting Math skills.

  • RP - PLAYER
Posted
  On 6/2/2025 at 7:27 AM, Ithillian Turambar said:

I dunno Heavy. Your post is kinda long.

 

Also natural thought progression is good to see. I like it cos it means people aren't worried about making mistakes or being cautious. Sinister doing this still is making him more and more Town for me.

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Totally about progression. 

 

But I would argue there is a difference in saying 1) I feel good about player x for this reason and bad about them for that reason, so I'm feeling null. This shows what you are thinking and is something that people can read sincerity into, and you can be held accountable for if you contradict yourself later. And 2) player X might be defending me because they think I'm town, or for town cred when I flip (even though there are no flips) or because they want to use this in a different argument or I might be completely wrong. This doesn't show what you think about any possibilities, it isn't something that can be read for intention, and there is nothing there that you can be held accountable for at a later date as it is only talking about possibilities, not what reads/feelings are.

 

With Sinister it is awkward as I have no example of how Town!Sinister plays, and too often this obfuscating style of posting seems far too reminiscent of Wolf!Sinister.

 

And yes, I'm bitter and jealous that he keeps talking about what fun it was to play as wolf and confuse everyone when they already were completely confused, lol. When is it going to be my turn, huh?

Posted
  On 6/2/2025 at 7:50 AM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Here Darthe again is using the argument, "you don't know how to play, do what I say or you are a liability".

 

While the information about his claim certainly holds up, the argument that Gud or anyone therefore must believe his claim about Turin/Sinister as true is simply not true at all. Not even taking into account the bus driver. Hilarious "complex reasons", I presume too complex to go into with such poor players as us? We'll just take your word for it then.

 

Darthe has just come into thread and with very little reasoning attacked most people who don't agree with him. Ithi he loves but she is completely wrong. He needs Gud not to be a liability. (Note these are the two as good as confirmed Townies so long as no one CCs, which probably should have happened by now if it was going to.) I'm an obvious wolf for obvious yet unstated reasons (and still no explanation for the flyby vote). Ed is solid town because he shot me without voting or being current in the thread. Peace is trying solve when he is arguing about flavour of the scenes when the mechanics make it 100% clear what went down, and he is obviously town as he has multiple posts that Darthe claims would be difficult to make as a wolf even though other experienced players don't see this.

 

I still don't get the "Darthe gonna Darthe" as some free pass to do things without a case, without reasons. Darthe is trying to turn around the entire narrative and his sole argument is that it is so obvious that we all should see it, no further explanation necessary. I'm still waiting for anyone to come up with an explanation of how this could be town behaviour, and that invitation is also open to Darthe himself. 

 

Or is it all just "complex reasons" that no one else will understand?

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Just like Heavy is gonna Heavy, Derf is gonna Derf, lol. 

These are the facts.

Darthe claimed a comparison view of SD and Turin.

The MOD CONFIRMED THE MENTALIST ABILITY WAS USED BY REMOVING IT FROM THE GAME.

No one cc'd being the Mentalist. 

Therefore,  Darthe is the Mentalist. 

So now we have the following options.

1. Darthe's claim is true and his read was true, meaning either SD or Turin is mafia (hint: it's SD)

2. Darthe's claim is true but his results are not. In this case, there is nothing to see here except how people react to the claim.

3. Darthe is lying about his results. It would be high Derf level play to use the ability on someone randomly just to get the MOD confirmation and then make up the result to send town on  wild goose chase as several of the more vocal people have expressed vigorous opinions on both of SD and Turin. In this case Darthe is the mafia and is hoping he can use his mafia skills to twist enough to win before he is caught. I doubt this is the case, but this is Darthe, so... I dunno.6

  • RP - PLAYER
Posted

I'm not doubting the claim.

 

My point is that everything single thing Darthe has done is anti-town that I can see. Clearing Ed. Attacking me without any reasons. Voting on Teph's counter train. Bullying people in thread for not agreeing with him. Not making a case about anything. 

 

So I am deeply, deeply suspicious of his behaviour. In this context, it makes no sense just to accept his claim about anyone's alignment. I mean we are at 8-2 if we are lucky at the moment, 7-3 if you count the Symp. If Darthe is not telling the truth we'll be at 4-2 with the Symp still along (assuming one mafia NK per night and no other mishaps). And he wants to eliminate me as well without question, that is a straight mafia victory and it relies on no reads, no case, no mod confirmation, just a "trust me bro" where if we do and we shouldn't we have lost the game.

 

Am I really the only person that isn't suspicious about this?

Posted
  On 6/1/2025 at 11:47 PM, DPR said:

Current Vote Cout:

 

SD (3)  - Turin, Gud, peace

peace (3) - Heavy, Shad, Ithi

Turin (1) - SD

 

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch

 

Day 2 ends at 4 pm on Monday, the 2nd. 
The countdown timer is the first post in the OP

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This is where we are right now. There are 3 proper alive people not voting. 

 

Darthe, Berf and Eddie

 

  On 6/1/2025 at 11:47 PM, Darthe said:

It does and is.

 

We have no coroner (my bad), and we’re in an alien kitchen sink-y setup that’s got revival and other twists I’m sure.  It’s a Wes game.

 

Throwing away the pursuit of building a core is… not something I’d expect an experienced townie to do.

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I have you as Town. You build your own core lol

 

@peacesells you are currently voting Sinister. Please give two other people you think might be Mafia/Symp and the reasons why?

 

*note... I've asked this maybe 3 or 4 times and he's not answered yet.

 

@SinisterDeath you are currently voting Turin. Could you also provide names of who else you think is Mafia/symp and why?

 

@Turin Turambar you are currently voting Sinister. Same request of you please.

 

AND I know we all hate lists, but giving 2 names and reasons isn't too bad surely? 

 

@Darthe you got your result but you not voting yet. Have you decided what you gonna do? 

 

And can we try and maybe not be last minute on this in case more info comes to light as a result of people getting voted?

Posted
  On 6/2/2025 at 8:03 AM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Totally about progression. 

 

But I would argue there is a difference in saying 1) I feel good about player x for this reason and bad about them for that reason, so I'm feeling null. This shows what you are thinking and is something that people can read sincerity into, and you can be held accountable for if you contradict yourself later. And 2) player X might be defending me because they think I'm town, or for town cred when I flip (even though there are no flips) or because they want to use this in a different argument or I might be completely wrong. This doesn't show what you think about any possibilities, it isn't something that can be read for intention, and there is nothing there that you can be held accountable for at a later date as it is only talking about possibilities, not what reads/feelings are.

 

With Sinister it is awkward as I have no example of how Town!Sinister plays, and too often this obfuscating style of posting seems far too reminiscent of Wolf!Sinister.

 

And yes, I'm bitter and jealous that he keeps talking about what fun it was to play as wolf and confuse everyone when they already were completely confused, lol. When is it going to be my turn, huh?

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This is true to a point. It is good to consider possibilities but I think at the end at least most of the time, you need to show which side of the fence you are on even if its just leaning. (Sure there will be the odd "I just don't fluffing know" moments, but those should be the exception, not the rule).

 

I gotta say though the "I can't wait to be a wolf" lines come off as false to me. It's just tinfoil, but it's there.

Posted
  On 6/2/2025 at 8:16 AM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I'm not doubting the claim.

 

My point is that everything single thing Darthe has done is anti-town that I can see. Clearing Ed. Attacking me without any reasons. Voting on Teph's counter train. Bullying people in thread for not agreeing with him. Not making a case about anything. 

 

So I am deeply, deeply suspicious of his behaviour. In this context, it makes no sense just to accept his claim about anyone's alignment. I mean we are at 8-2 if we are lucky at the moment, 7-3 if you count the Symp. If Darthe is not telling the truth we'll be at 4-2 with the Symp still along (assuming one mafia NK per night and no other mishaps). And he wants to eliminate me as well without question, that is a straight mafia victory and it relies on no reads, no case, no mod confirmation, just a "trust me bro" where if we do and we shouldn't we have lost the game.

 

Am I really the only person that isn't suspicious about this?

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Do you accept Darthe is the Mentalist?

(Lololololol  I just saw how that reads)

 

If yes, then which of the 3 scenarios I submitted do you believe is the truth? Or do you have another idea?

 

Your belief should lead you to a conclusion,  and then to a logical vote.

 

Right now it looks like you are Ettington his doubting you blind you to seeing what is going on. This is an example of "Heavy gonna Heavy" and it would probably be viewed as more suspicious if someone else did it.

  • RP - PLAYER
Posted
  On 6/2/2025 at 8:25 AM, Turin Turambar said:

Do you accept Darthe is the Mentalist?

(Lololololol  I just saw how that reads)

 

If yes, then which of the 3 scenarios I submitted do you believe is the truth? Or do you have another idea?

 

Your belief should lead you to a conclusion,  and then to a logical vote.

 

Right now it looks like you are Ettington his doubting you blind you to seeing what is going on. This is an example of "Heavy gonna Heavy" and it would probably be viewed as more suspicious if someone else did it.

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Yes I am accepting that he is the Mentalist, and will do until there is a CC, which seems unlikely at this point. I did at the time have a little moment where I thought there was a way where it could be a fake claim but I was wrong about the mechanics there (for full disclosure, so no one can claim I'm contradicting myself).

 

I don't agree with any of Darthe's reads. I think his behaviour has been resolutely anti-town. I cannot see anyway he is working for town's benefit and his argument to convince me is that I am so bad at mafia I should be policy lynched at the beginning of every game. Do you see how that is not a particularly convincing argument for me? So I don't care about Darthe's claim of alignment at all. I think we should be hunting wolves. And Darthe is claiming I'm a wolf (which I can 100% confirm I'm not), Ed is sound, Peace is sound - it seems like Darthe is blocking all leads into the wolves and the symp without giving any reasons that he can just tell. This does not give me any confidence in anything else he is saying, and until he can actually justify anything he is saying I think he is best ignored.

Posted
  On 6/2/2025 at 8:18 AM, Ithillian Turambar said:

 

This is where we are right now. There are 3 proper alive people not voting. 

 

Darthe, Berf and Eddie

 

I have you as Town. You build your own core lol

 

@peacesells you are currently voting Sinister. Please give two other people you think might be Mafia/Symp and the reasons why?

 

*note... I've asked this maybe 3 or 4 times and he's not answered yet.

 

@SinisterDeath you are currently voting Turin. Could you also provide names of who else you think is Mafia/symp and why?

 

@Turin Turambar you are currently voting Sinister. Same request of you please.

 

AND I know we all hate lists, but giving 2 names and reasons isn't too bad surely? 

 

@Darthe you got your result but you not voting yet. Have you decided what you gonna do? 

 

And can we try and maybe not be last minute on this in case more info comes to light as a result of people getting voted?

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You're not the boss of me!!! Lolololololol 

 

Shad is starting to get suspicious with his early defense of SD. That he is shifting slightly more to believing me (my take) is actually making me worry more about him (and to a lesser extent my SD read, tbh) as it's feeling like he is positioning to go "well, it wasn't SD, so Turin is next". He would word it better of course. 

 

Ed is not being very forthcoming.  He killed Heavy but didn't vote him which is kinda weird. I guess it could be he already put in the shot so knew a vote was unnecessary. I wish I knew when he submitted that kill. Also, I don't think I could quote a single actual read, other than sussing you (but not doing anything with that sus)

 

@DPR, was the cutscene with the scream directly related to when the kill shot was submitted??? There was some joking about last minute.com I think

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I also have to say that I'm reconsidering my earlier position about the permanent roles being alignment indicating. Particularly in the case of the symp. A peripheral role could be just right for a true wolf in town clothing. So that puts Heavy and Darthe in my tinfoil category.

 

So that's kinda 4. See how much of a rebel I am?? Lololololol 

Posted
  On 6/2/2025 at 8:53 AM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Yes I am accepting that he is the Mentalist, and will do until there is a CC, which seems unlikely at this point. I did at the time have a little moment where I thought there was a way where it could be a fake claim but I was wrong about the mechanics there (for full disclosure, so no one can claim I'm contradicting myself).

 

I don't agree with any of Darthe's reads. I think his behaviour has been resolutely anti-town. I cannot see anyway he is working for town's benefit and his argument to convince me is that I am so bad at mafia I should be policy lynched at the beginning of every game. Do you see how that is not a particularly convincing argument for me? So I don't care about Darthe's claim of alignment at all. I think we should be hunting wolves. And Darthe is claiming I'm a wolf (which I can 100% confirm I'm not), Ed is sound, Peace is sound - it seems like Darthe is blocking all leads into the wolves and the symp without giving any reasons that he can just tell. This does not give me any confidence in anything else he is saying, and until he can actually justify anything he is saying I think he is best ignored.

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Take yourself out of the equation.

 

Which of the 3 scenarios do you see as the most likely, or if you prefer, which do you think is true? It sounds like you are disbelieving of Darthe's motivation.  Does that mean you think it is a ruse? Therefore he is most likely mafia.

 

If you believe him completely then you should be voting either SD or me because that is the path to victory for town.

 

If you are uncertain about just the result (which is warranted) then you should be looking for the mafia independent of this information. 

 

My question then is, What do you believe?

  • RP - PLAYER
Posted
  On 6/2/2025 at 9:04 AM, Turin Turambar said:

Take yourself out of the equation.

 

Which of the 3 scenarios do you see as the most likely, or if you prefer, which do you think is true? It sounds like you are disbelieving of Darthe's motivation.  Does that mean you think it is a ruse? Therefore he is most likely mafia.

 

If you believe him completely then you should be voting either SD or me because that is the path to victory for town.

 

If you are uncertain about just the result (which is warranted) then you should be looking for the mafia independent of this information. 

 

My question then is, What do you believe?

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I don't see any possibility from Darthe's play that he is not mafia or the symp. No one has offered any reasoning for how he has played except from Darthe is gonna Darthe and that I am so bad I should eliminated every game for the good of everyone.

 

Neither of these convinces me in the slightest.

 

We are voting Peace (some of us) to see what shakes out rather than voting for you or Sinister as that comes down to do we trust Darthe or not, nothing about our reads. And what shook out when we voted Peace? Super Darthe to the rescue! It seems ignoring Peace and following Darthe purely on the strength of Darthe saying this is a good idea seems sub-optimal play.

  • RP - PLAYER
Posted

Consider also how active Peace was and how confrontational. Now Darthe is arguing the case he has slanked off (could be weekend etc) but does it not stand out to you that Peace was all buddy buddy with Ithi, then got aggressive and is now chill with Darthe defending him and pointing out how difficult his posts would be to fake as a wolf. I don't see it myself, but I do see collusion.

 

We need to be hunting wolves, not discussing spec or debating if we should follow Darthe blindly. There is nothing mod confirmed that says we should, and we will lose if he is wrong. That is way I see it at least.

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