S3E7 - Goldeneyes

[SinisterDeath]

  On 4/11/2025 at 8:12 PM, Fiona_12 said:

Moiraine did start training Egwene in S1, and she channeled 3 times afterwards that I can remember. First, to start a fire, second to free Perrin when they are captured by Valda, and third, to heal Nyaneave in the finale. The first 2 times it did not happen immediately and she had to really concentrate. 

 

Some untrained channelers doing small things is acceptable, but having the power to create a shield like Daise did? No way.

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There's several elements to this.

1) Look at what Nynaeve did in Season 1. She literally blasts what Egwene did out of the water with no "training" at all. (note, Nynaeve is 3(+10) to Eegwene's 8(+5).)

2) How much older is Daise then Egwene? How long has she been channeling and not knowing it? (Just like Nynaeve)

3) Does Perrin's Ta'Veren play into this?

[SinisterDeath]

  On 4/11/2025 at 8:19 PM, Fiona_12 said:

If it was, they would have introduce it by now, and it's much more convenient to have channelers be able to do complex weaves without training.

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And Rand was able to ripple the ground, create lightning, gateways, fire swords, all without being able to "see" his weaves or "know" what he was doing as a "wilder" and that was "before" LTT was ever in his head. 😉 

[Fiona_12]

  On 4/11/2025 at 8:14 PM, JayceDa said:

The number of times Perrin said "Maksim, now!" was a few too many.

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Well, they did need to show Perrin being in charge of the battle. Perrin didn't have to instruct Tam because he was a trained soldier. I think the only time Tam asked Perrin anything was at the beginning of the battle when Tam asks Perrin "At x number of paces?"

 

But I loved the inclusion of the TR long bow and that even Cenn Buie could still use one because had been doing so all of his life. And at least they showed Maksim being properly impressed ("Two Rivers long now indeed"), even though he would have already seen the men use them in a previous trollocs attack. The men on roofs with their bows was a good touch, too.

[Fiona_12]

  On 4/11/2025 at 8:20 PM, SinisterDeath said:

Look at what Nynaeve did in Season 1. She literally blasts what Egwene did out of the water with no "training" at all. (note, Nynaeve is 3(+10) to Eegwene's

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Yeah, they really powered up her instinctive ability to heal. She at least is a wilder who survived channeling on her own in the books. 

I need to look up the explanation of the power ratings. It's been a long time and I don't remember the rating system at all. Not that it made a lot of sense years ago, but perhaps now after 9 or 10 reads I'll get it. 

 

I guess Perrin's t'averen nature could be an explanation for Daise and the girls being able to channel better than they should have. That's an interesting point, and I would actually prefer if the writers were astute enough to make that a factor. 

 

  On 4/11/2025 at 8:22 PM, SinisterDeath said:

And Rand was able to ripple the ground, create lightning, gateways, fire swords, all without being able to "see" his weaves or "know" what he was doing as a "wilder" and that was "before" LTT was ever in his head. 😉 

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Logain was a "wilder" too. I think Taim was supposed to have been trained by Demandred, though.

[Scarloc99]

Ok positive point first, the battle for the 2 rivers was immeasurably better then the battle for winter fell. For one I could see it. 
 

Now, I won’t repeat what has been said about the healing, Vala’s arc, fain. The narrative changes. My issue with this comes down to one thing. 
 

In the books the 2 rivers battle is for me the first truly emotional moment, even now after countless read throughs it still brings a tear to my eye. The moment the women step into the breach where the white cloaks wouldn’t, the build as Perrin walks through the town, the emotion of sending faile away it pulls me in, and I still remember the very first time I read it re reading that section several times before carrying on. 
 

So I was hoping, really hoping this episode would give that sense of emotion, hoped that in whatever way they tweaked it for the TV they still at least would keep that core. 
 

But no, they managed to have the individual bits there but none of the emotion, that emotional punch was saved for Loial. 
 

for me then, this episode is such a letdown. 

[SinisterDeath]

  On 4/11/2025 at 8:40 PM, Fiona_12 said:

I need to look up the explanation of the power ratings. It's been a long time and I don't remember the rating system at all. Not that it made a lot of sense years ago, but perhaps now after 9 or 10 reads I'll get it. 

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Tor published the power rankings here
https://reactormag.com/the-wheel-of-time-companion-strength-chart-of-major-channelers/

 

The only real column you have to pay attention to is the furthest left, the + value ones are the old system that became invalidated after he restructured it at some point in the series.

 

The wiki (link below), combines the official chart (above) with what people have said in the books about how powerful people are (like the aforementioned Bode Cauthon). There's likely some errors in this one, since those added to this versus the official are based on what people in the book are saying about how they compare with others.

https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Strength_in_the_One_Power_rankings

[Mirefox]

  On 4/11/2025 at 9:01 PM, Scarloc99 said:

Ok positive point first, the battle for the 2 rivers was immeasurably better then the battle for winter fell. For one I could see it. 
 

Now, I won’t repeat what has been said about the healing, Vala’s arc, fain. The narrative changes. My issue with this comes down to one thing. 
 

In the books the 2 rivers battle is for me the first truly emotional moment, even now after countless read throughs it still brings a tear to my eye. The moment the women step into the breach where the white cloaks wouldn’t, the build as Perrin walks through the town, the emotion of sending faile away it pulls me in, and I still remember the very first time I read it re reading that section several times before carrying on. 
 

So I was hoping, really hoping this episode would give that sense of emotion, hoped that in whatever way they tweaked it for the TV they still at least would keep that core. 
 

But no, they managed to have the individual bits there but none of the emotion, that emotional punch was saved for Loial. 
 

for me then, this episode is such a letdown. 

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Loial was underused in the show and his demise was heavily telegraphed.  The “I can only destroy it from the inside” nonsense was so contrived and idiot that of course we knew he was dead.  They may have wanted it to be the emotional punch, but the only emotions it elicited were probably not those intended by the writers.

[king of nowhere]

  On 4/11/2025 at 3:06 PM, Mirefox said:

If that is the case, what a lazy, immature writing contrivance to use grievous injuries to remove someone from a situation.  “We have a problem, guys.  We wrote a powerful channeled into this story arc but now we need her to not be able to do what we’ve written her to do.  Any ideas?  Kill her?  Well, we can’t to that yet.  Maybe we ‘almost kill’ her.  Again.  Great, problem solved.”

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really, pretty much everything in writing is a contrived coincidence to allow the plot to unfold just right. sometimes, it's masked better than other times.

for example, rand and moiraine are the most powerful group, and they are facing sammael and lanfear, the strongest foes. the girls are in tanchico, where they will face moghedien, who's just coincidentally at the same power of nynaeve. and perrin, without any channeler, will face trollocs without channelers. the main characters and the villains are split in such a way that it gives three very balanced fights. 

what are the odds? if a single dreadlord had come to the two rivers, the battle would have been very short. if egwene or nynave had, the battle also would have been short.

of course, the book has the concept of ta'veren (i really blame rafe for not having used the word anymore after season 1; in season 1 it wasn't properly explained, and now that it would make sense, it's not used). how convenient that mat got a wall dropped on him when he needed to be separated by the other characters. how doubly convenient that he got separated from anyone who could travel. three books of his plot would have been avoided had any of the main character remained with him - or even had anyone bothered to contact him in tel'aran'riod.

 

stories are built like that. sure, they could have had alanna pummel the trollocs for a good hour, then collapse from exhaustion and let the muggles defend. wouldn't it have been equally contrived that there were just enough trollocs to exhaust alanna, with those remaining being just enough to seriously endanger the villagers - but not enough to just roll over them?

 

what i actually blame is the show's lack of consistency with the power. in the books, it was clearly stated that while verin and alanna could kill dozens, they weren't strong enough to hold on their own. in the show, we don't have any clear reference for that.

 

[Scarloc99]

  On 4/11/2025 at 9:08 PM, Mirefox said:

Loial was underused in the show and his demise was heavily telegraphed.  The “I can only destroy it from the inside” nonsense was so contrived and idiot that of course we knew he was dead.  They may have wanted it to be the emotional punch, but the only emotions it elicited were probably not those intended by the writers.

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Oh I’m not saying it worked, my point here is that the section of the book that I know (because it has been discussed elsewhere on the forum), many many also found and find truly emotional. A section that a friend of mine reading the books for the first time called me up after reading and asked me if I cried that first time reading it, Rafe managed to suck all the emotion out of, and then artificially tried to re-inject it with a made up scene with Loial. 

[Mirefox]

  On 4/11/2025 at 9:13 PM, Scarloc99 said:

Oh I’m not saying it worked, my point here is that the section of the book that I know (because it has been discussed elsewhere on the forum), many many also found and find truly emotional. A section that a friend of mine reading the books for the first time called me up after reading and asked me if I cried that first time reading it, Rafe managed to suck all the emotion out of, and then artificially tried to re-inject it with a made up scene with Loial. 

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Yeah, I agree completely.  I also felt like they elevated Maksim way too much, which kind of lessened Perrin’s importance to a degree.  /shrug

[A Memory Of Why]

  On 4/11/2025 at 1:43 PM, SinisterDeath said:

Thus begins the Faile kidnapping arc.

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And that will only take a couple of episodes to resolve right?

 

Right..?

[SinisterDeath]

I don't know if anyone's touched on it for this episode or not.

 

But the CGI for the Trollocs, particularly the one Hunting Aram sucked.

Quite honestly, (Rose tinted glasses) I feel the CGI used in Underworld for the Werewolves was better, then that.

 

While I feel it was important for Aram to kill and get shunned from the Tuatha'an, I don't know that they really did his shunning any justice. 

I'm going to be rewatching the episode here tonight, but As far as I recall.. we never see him get shunned like Rand's ancestor got shunned. So we lose that emotional connection for Aram's character. It's implied it happened... but he was just offered a job as the town's blacksmith, so everything's okay, right? /s

 

Some of the Trollocs throughout the episode looked fine some just looked off and I can't quite put my finger on why.

 

As much as I liked Valda finally getting his karmic retribution... The graphics of that scene... were really cheesy. The fire looked like really crappy vhx fire. Maybe my stream quality went to crap when I was watching it on my laptop, but it did not look like a real fire at all. 

The post fire effects were decent enough. He looked quite crispy. Seriously. Stick to practical effects... Setting people on fire is... incredibly easy to do. And he wasn't even on FIRE That long as far as stunts go! (Seriously, this would have been CHEAPER then a CGI fire that looks like shit!)

 

Criticism wise. Killing off Valda and Loial isn't something I practically liked. I wanted Valda to stick around and make us really hate him, and I think Loial could have done some more in the show had they let him. 

 

Next week we're expecting them to kill off Lanfear and Moiraine, only Lanfear and Moiraine aren't "permanently" dead, even if they "say" they're dead, they very well may be returning in future seasons until the series ends and proves other wise.

 

 

One ongoing criticism? I have with the show... if you want to call it that. Is that I don't know if the writers/directors/producers of the show have handled "POC" in the show very well, both in how they're killing them off, or in how they've handled them as villains/heroes, and other ways when it comes to various tropes and other things.. and I say this knowing full well that the show has an extremely diverse cast and crew, including the writers, directors, etc. 

 

In S3E1, Leane merced a certain Black Ajah member with her staff very violently.
In S3E7, they choose to kill off two "black" cast members, who have been with the show since season 1, in the same episode to "Balance" out the hero and villain ratio. People will obviously say... It's okay! They're killing Lanfear and Moiraine next! But as I mentioned above, I don't think that's permanent. (until proven otherwise in the series finale)

 

I don't know, as I've said before, it's a hard balance to strike... I'm not an expert on that particular topic; But I also don't think it's helping the show's case when they kill off Hammed Animashaun and Abdul Salis in the same episode.

 

But hey, I thought this show was ultra woke, ya know?

[Mirefox]

  On 4/11/2025 at 10:10 PM, SinisterDeath said:

I don't know if anyone's touched on it for this episode or not.

 

But the CGI for the Trollocs, particularly the one Hunting Aram sucked.

Quite honestly, (Rose tinted glasses) I feel the CGI used in Underworld for the Werewolves was better, then that.

 

While I feel it was important for Aram to kill and get shunned from the Tuatha'an, I don't know that they really did his shunning any justice. 

I'm going to be rewatching the episode here tonight, but As far as I recall.. we never see him get shunned like Rand's ancestor got shunned. So we lose that emotional connection for Aram's character. It's implied it happened... but he was just offered a job as the town's blacksmith, so everything's okay, right? /s

 

Some of the Trollocs throughout the episode looked fine some just looked off and I can't quite put my finger on why.

 

As much as I liked Valda finally getting his karmic retribution... The graphics of that scene... were really cheesy. The fire looked like really crappy vhx fire. Maybe my stream quality went to crap when I was watching it on my laptop, but it did not look like a real fire at all. 

The post fire effects were decent enough. He looked quite crispy. Seriously. Stick to practical effects... Setting people on fire is... incredibly easy to do. And he wasn't even on FIRE That long as far as stunts go! (Seriously, this would have been CHEAPER then a CGI fire that looks like shit!)

 

Criticism wise. Killing off Valda and Loial isn't something I practically liked. I wanted Valda to stick around and make us really hate him, and I think Loial could have done some more in the show had they let him. 

 

Next week we're expecting them to kill off Lanfear and Moiraine, only Lanfear and Moiraine aren't "permanently" dead, even if they "say" they're dead, they very well may be returning in future seasons until the series ends and proves other wise.

 

 

One ongoing criticism? I have with the show... if you want to call it that. Is that I don't know if the writers/directors/producers of the show have handled "POC" in the show very well, both in how they're killing them off, or in how they've handled them as villains/heroes, and other ways when it comes to various tropes and other things.. and I say this knowing full well that the show has an extremely diverse cast and crew, including the writers, directors, etc. 

 

In S3E1, Leane merced a certain Black Ajah member with her staff very violently.
In S3E7, they choose to kill off two "black" cast members, who have been with the show since season 1, in the same episode to "Balance" out the hero and villain ratio. People will obviously say... It's okay! They're killing Lanfear and Moiraine next! But as I mentioned above, I don't think that's permanent. (until proven otherwise in the series finale)

 

I don't know, as I've said before, it's a hard balance to strike... I'm not an expert on that particular topic; But I also don't think it's helping the show's case when they kill off Hammed Animashaun and Abdul Salis in the same episode.

 

But hey, I thought this show was ultra woke, ya know?

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I had to pick and choose what to talk about but I almost mentioned that the trollocs, especially the one chasing Aram, were about on par with the trolls from Willow.

 

So don’t worry, you’re not the only one.

[Skipp]

  On 4/11/2025 at 10:10 PM, SinisterDeath said:

One ongoing criticism? I have with the show... if you want to call it that. Is that I don't know if the writers/directors/producers of the show have handled "POC" in the show very well, both in how they're killing them off, or in how they've handled them as villains/heroes, and other ways when it comes to various tropes and other things.. and I say this knowing full well that the show has an extremely diverse cast and crew, including the writers, directors, etc. 

 

In S3E1, Leane merced a certain Black Ajah member with her staff very violently.
In S3E7, they choose to kill off two "black" cast members, who have been with the show since season 1, in the same episode to "Balance" out the hero and villain ratio. People will obviously say... It's okay! They're killing Lanfear and Moiraine next! But as I mentioned above, I don't think that's permanent. (until proven otherwise in the series finale)

 

I don't know, as I've said before, it's a hard balance to strike... I'm not an expert on that particular topic; But I also don't think it's helping the show's case when they kill off Hammed Animashaun and Abdul Salis in the same episode.

 

But hey, I thought this show was ultra woke, ya know?

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Let me preface this by saying I am a White male from Canada so my perspective is not necessarily needed for this conversation.

 

I have seen this argument/accusation of colourism labeled against the show since the first casting reveal but I don't really see it from my POV.

 

This season the complaints largely seem to be about PoC are being more brutally killed than their white counter parts.  The White BA sister during the BA attack in episode 1, head beaten with Leane's Staff, Ispan's death by Moggy in episode 6, thumbs pressed through the face in Tar, and now Valda in episode 7, burned to death.

 

Now historically I think the 2 most gruesome deaths in the series belong to Laila in season 1 and Uno in season 2.  And for this season which is more brutal, the White being beaten by Leane or the Brown sister who was cut in half a minute earlier?  Is Valda's death worse than Natti Cauthons?  Valda we mostly see CGI flames, with Natti we see 2 close ups of her charred corpse in 2 different episodes.  Are these intentional or subjective?

 

In season 1 the complaints were that the darker skinned characters were cast as villians, Valda and Padan Fain.  Didn't matter that 3 of the e5 were coloured because they were too light skinned.  Expect when it did matter that they cast the black man as the who killed their wife.  But would it have been better to cast them as Mat, the local thief and troublemaker who betrays their friends?   But also ignoring Hammed cast as Loial.

 

I don't really know the answer to any of this.  Are these choices intentional or the fault of casting a very diverse cast?  I know there have been rumblings of an uproar if they do kill off Moraine and Suian this season as that just reinforces the bury your gays trope.  This ignoring all the positive rep show to the LGBTQ community in other couples.

 

I just dunno.

[Fiona_12]

I don't think there is a PoC issue with this show. Abdul Valis was brilliant as Valda, and I can't help believing that is why he was cast as Valda, period. I hated him in the show much more than I did in the books. He just made my skin crawl. We know we're not getting Morgase's side story, so there really wasn't any point in keeping him in the show, but his death was satisfying because it was at the hands of Mat's sisters. We know Ihvon being killed off had nothing to do with his skin color. Alanna does lose a warder, but they couldn't kill Maksim because he's Rafe's boyfriend. 

 

Something that they didn't have time to show that I really missed was Perrin leading the young men of the Two Rivers to hunt trollocs. I really loved that part of Perrin's leadership development. 

[Skipp]

  On 4/12/2025 at 1:18 AM, Fiona_12 said:

I don't think there is a PoC issue with this show. Abdul Valis was brilliant as Valda, and I can't help believing that is why he was cast as Valda, period. I hated him in the show much more than I did in the books. He just made my skin crawl. We know we're not getting Morgase's side story, so there really wasn't any point in keeping him in the show, but his death was satisfying because it was at the hands of Mat's sisters. We know Ihvon being killed off had nothing to do with his skin color. Alanna does lose a warder, but they couldn't kill Maksim because he's Rafe's boyfriend. 

 

Something that they didn't have time to show that I really missed was Perrin leading the young men of the Two Rivers to hunt trollocs. I really loved that part of Perrin's leadership development. 

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I have been wondering what the plan for Maksim actually was.  To me at least there was a fair amount of foreshadowing that he would be the one to die in season 3.  I thought he was going to turn out to be a dark friend what with the thumb through fore and middle fingers sign along with the weird scene of him staring at his own reflection.  We will probably never know for sure though.

[Mailman]

  On 4/12/2025 at 1:38 AM, Skipp said:

I have been wondering what the plan for Maksim actually was.  To me at least there was a fair amount of foreshadowing that he would be the one to die in season 3.  I thought he was going to turn out to be a dark friend what with the thumb through fore and middle fingers sign along with the weird scene of him staring at his own reflection.  We will probably never know for sure though.

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ATM I cannot see him exiting the show anytime soon. Alanna after all this set up feels like she is going to be around for sometime as well and the next thing I can see happening is them getting a new warder into their relationship be it Rand, Lan and/or someone else. I would lean towards it being Lan or someone else as I can't imagine that relationship being nonsexual at this point. Not sure that the show will go down the path of having Lan sleep with her though.

[NilsK]

They took a masterpiece and turned it into bad fan fiction...

 

I understand they have to cut some stuff to fit the format, but at this point why bother buying an IP if you are going to butcher it until it is unrecognizable?

 

Destroyed the entire internal logic behind channeling and make it not require any training?  Check!

 

Took a meaningful climax of a battle and turned it into little more than a meaningless skirmish?  Check!

 

Completely omitted the character defining arc of a main character (Perrin) and made him act contrary to his established personality traits? Check!

 

I'm ok with the changes to the way Aram takes up arms cause it makes sense and gives it an extra dramatic flair.  Heck, even the whole killing Loial pissed me off but ok at least he didn't have major arcs left, we can live without the Ogiers joining the last battle...

 

But no wolves?  No Luc?  No Tam? Making a deal with Padan Fain?  Destroying the entire Morgase/Whitecloak arc?  Characters being treated like pincushions with the strongest plot armor ever seen on TV?  

 

I'm sorry but this is not WoT.  This will kill the IP and make sure we never actually get a good adaptation.  Truely a heartbreaking shame.

Edited April 12 by NilsK

[SinisterDeath]

  On 4/11/2025 at 11:20 PM, Skipp said:

Let me preface this by saying I am a White male from Canada so my perspective is not necessarily needed for this conversation.

 

I have seen this argument/accusation of colourism labeled against the show since the first casting reveal but I don't really see it from my POV.

 

I don't really know the answer to any of this.  Are these choices intentional or the fault of casting a very diversecast?  I know there have been rumblings of an uproar if they do kill off Moraine and Suian this season as that just reinforces the bury your gays trope.  This ignoring all the positive rep show to the LGBTQ community in other couples.

 

I just dunno.

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Aye. I dunno either.

 

I remember that stuff being brought up in season 1. I'm seeing a lot of the same stuff the people from those communities brought up back in season 1, happening in season 3. I'm also seeing a lot of the same horror movies tropes with shots lingering on POC getting killed, and I don't know if that's intentional, or just a side effect of the diverse casting.

 

So it's more that I'm aware that I'm seeing similar stuff, and I'm not going to be shocked if people from those communities criticizing the show about it for those reasons, but I'm not going to make a big social media stink about it on Twitter either.

[SinisterDeath]

  On 4/12/2025 at 1:18 AM, Fiona_12 said:

I don't think there is a PoC issue with this show. Abdul Valis was brilliant as Valda, and I can't help believing that is why he was cast as Valda, period. I hated him in the show much more than I did in the books. He just made my skin crawl.

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He was absolutely fantastic as Valda, and I really can't imagine anyone else playing him. (I still wish they had given him one more season to really hate him!)

 

That's also why I say I'm not an expert on that line of criticism, and I'll always defer to the experts on it.

 

I've just seen things this last season that look like things that have been pointed out in the past and they have me wondering, "Is this that thing you're talking about? Cause it looks like it?" 

[Mailman]

  On 4/11/2025 at 11:20 PM, Skipp said:

 

Let me preface this by saying I am a White male from Canada so my perspective is not necessarily needed for this conversation.

 

I have seen this argument/accusation of colourism labeled against the show since the first casting reveal but I don't really see it from my POV.

 

This season the complaints largely seem to be about PoC are being more brutally killed than their white counter parts.  The White BA sister during the BA attack in episode 1, head beaten with Leane's Staff, Ispan's death by Moggy in episode 6, thumbs pressed through the face in Tar, and now Valda in episode 7, burned to death.

 

Now historically I think the 2 most gruesome deaths in the series belong to Laila in season 1 and Uno in season 2.  And for this season which is more brutal, the White being beaten by Leane or the Brown sister who was cut in half a minute earlier?  Is Valda's death worse than Natti Cauthons?  Valda we mostly see CGI flames, with Natti we see 2 close ups of her charred corpse in 2 different episodes.  Are these intentional or subjective?

 

In season 1 the complaints were that the darker skinned characters were cast as villians, Valda and Padan Fain.  Didn't matter that 3 of the e5 were coloured because they were too light skinned.  Expect when it did matter that they cast the black man as the who killed their wife.  But would it have been better to cast them as Mat, the local thief and troublemaker who betrays their friends?   But also ignoring Hammed cast as Loial.

 

I don't really know the answer to any of this.  Are these choices intentional or the fault of casting a very diverse cast?  I know there have been rumblings of an uproar if they do kill off Moraine and Suian this season as that just reinforces the bury your gays trope.  This ignoring all the positive rep show to the LGBTQ community in other couples.

 

I just dunno.

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We did also see Moiraine killed in the visions with quite a lot of blood splatter above a dozen times. I know it was just visions but they were of her death.

 

Muradin's death would have to rank up there on the gruesome scale as well clawing his own eyes out. I would rank that as higher on the gore scale than Laila.

Edited April 12 by Mailman

[Fiona_12]

  On 4/12/2025 at 3:00 AM, SinisterDeath said:

I'll always defer to the experts on it

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Who are the experts? One person claiming to be an expert can say one thing while another says the opposite and it all depends on their individual biases. The only ones who really know are the people involved in casting and writing the show.

[SinisterDeath]

  On 4/12/2025 at 3:30 AM, Fiona_12 said:

 

Who are the experts? One person claiming to be an expert can say one thing while another says the opposite and it all depends on their individual biases. The only ones who really know are the people involved in casting and writing the show.

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Even the writers, casters, directors, actors, and producers directly involved in the product have their own biases that they very well may not know they have, and may even be blind to a type of criticism because they are too close to it to see it.

 

E.g. there's a reason shows hire "Intimacy Coordinators" for sex scenes, because writers/directors are often blind to their own issues to determine what is acceptable on set for actors.

 

E.g. it's clear this show lacks any type of Historical War Coordinator like you'd see on the show Vikings or Game of Thrones, but the Writers/Directors think they're experts on warfare, so "they've got it", and it shows in the final product.

[Fiona_12]

  On 4/12/2025 at 3:10 AM, Mailman said:

We did also see Moiraine killed in the visions with quite a lot of blood splatter above a dozen times. I know it was just visions but they were of her death.

 

Muradin's death would have to rank up there on the gruesome scale as well clawing his own eyes out. I would rank that as higher on the gore scale than Laila.

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As someone who cannot handle gore and brutal violence, the scenes I actually have to close my eyes for on rewatches are Uno, Leane clubbing the White BA to death, the Brown sister getting cut in half, Natti's burned corpse, and Moghedien killing Ispan. If we had seen Muradin clawing his eyes out more closely, I'd have to close my eyes for that, too. Normally, I'd have to cover my ears when someone is screaming as they're being burned alive, but I guess his screams weren't convincing enough.

 

Where Moghedien is concerned, she is bat shit crazy and also brutally tortured Jaichim into becoming a gray man.

 

Not that this proves or disproves anything. I am just way more sensitive about violence and these are the scenes that especially affected me.

[LTL]

Not seen anyone comment on this so far but the way Perrin ended the battle does a good job of showing the different things he has learned from different people. Not only the fighting ability, way he behaves with Faile and nod to the way of the leaf after, but asking Padan Fain “why” was what Ingtar told Perrin he should do if he ever got the chance, rather than just killing him, and that is what allowed him to find a way to end the battle.