S3E6 - The Shadow in the Night

[SinisterDeath]

Season 3 - Episode 6: The Shadow in the Night
Director: Marta Cunningham

Writers: Rammy Park

Runtime: 1 h 10 min

  Quote

Episode Description: TBA

Expand  

Let's keep DM Tidy, and try to keep all discussions pertaining to S3E6: The Shadow in the Night to this topic for the next few weeks.

When reading beyond this point, you should expect to encounter Full Spoilers Up to the ending of Episode 6 only, and full book spoilers in this topic.

[DigificWriter]

First.

 

Some thoughts:

* Everything that I thought about Show!Liandrin has now been proven to be thoroughly wrong, but I'm okay with that

 

* Rand is a massive idiot, but he's still my second-favorite character

 

* Ceara Coveney singing is not something I thought I needed, but now that we got it, I want more of it

 

* A certain scene sequence involving Elayne and Nynaeve in this episode is really going to traumatize LezbiNerdy

 

* Being the Spoiled Show-Only fan that I am, I was expecting a bad end for Alsera, but I also knew, instinctively, that, if it went there, the show wasn't going to go nearly as far with what happened to her as the books did with the random 'NPC' that she served as a stand-in for

 

* I'm pretty sure that the show has made both of Mat's sisters into Channelers instead of just one of them

 

* I can't figure out what Lanfear gets out of 'siccing' Sammael on Rand, and it's going to bug me

 

* I knew it had to happen, but, man, Egwene and Rand's breakup was super harsh; Madeline absolutely killed the scene, though

[A Memory Of Why]

So i mostly enjoyed this episode.. mostly.. (Insert aliens meme). So yeah, mostly is how I'd describe this one.

 

I feel i would have liked it more if there was more than 2 episodes left. Still there were a couple of instances that made me want to kick rocks.

 

For starters, 2 untrained channelers healing Allannas mortal wounds? Even with show logic this is a bit much. No, I'm sorry but I do not like anything about this storyline. Everything about Allanna so far has been unnecessary to get to her healing Perrin. I can think of a couple of ways to get here without being silly.

 

I'm mostly good with the rest of the episode:

 

Tanchico was mostly fun:

 

Thom!

 

Min and Nyn were surprisingly fun.

 

Liandrins story was very interesting, which I have some theories on.

 

Moggys interview was awesome!

 

Perrin and Faile was mostly good, though it did, at times feel a bit forced with their dialogue.

 

The waste was also mostly good fun..

 

It was nice to see the "tear" attack.. but it still felt.. not quite enough.

 

So yeah, I want to say i enjoyed it..  mostly.. but still 🥲

[Irvyne]

A definite improvement over last week. (Phew!)

 

- So great to have Thom back, even though he's still a bit too "grim" a gleeman IMO. That hat he's wearing... I feel like he might pass it on to someone else before too long... *wink* *wink*

 

- OMG, they mentioned Saidar and Saidin!

/collapses

 

- I really liked the scene between Rand and Moiraine. Great acting from both.

 

- Do you think the backstory that Faile gave Perrin is true, like it's her new show-canon? Or do you think she was just making up a story to throw him off the scent? If it's true, I'm gonna guess we won't see Davram in the show. Which is no enormous loss, but it's an interesting change nonetheless.

 

- As Perrin and Faile were getting to know each other, I was thinking it would be good if they stretched the relationship out a bit. Maybe save their official "getting together" for another season or two. Since, y'know, he was just telling her about how he fridged his wife. Oh. Nope. They're making out. Okay then. Anyone else think that was kind of sudden? Especially since the subject they were discussing was Mat...? 🤨

 

- And yeah, totally agree with A Memory of Why. Two completely untrained wilder teenagers using complex healing spells by imagining themselves as a flower? So much eye-rolling. Hopefully Alanna's story is mostly finished for now. That story thread has been the weakest part of this season.

 

- Moghedien is awesome. My favourite baddy in the show. The scene of compulsion with Nynaeve and Elayne was brilliant. Very similar to how I remember it happening in the book. And Nynaeve clutching the bracelet, and Moghedien's reaction. "You're... fighting me...?" SO good! I hope their animosity continues to grow.

 

- Josha got to show some range towards the end. He's getting better and better I feel, as he gets more to do with the character.

 

- Egwene: "Rand, death can't be healed!" ... ... "Oh, except that one time I did it. LOLz."

 

Overall, while the story still took its fair share of liberties, it was more in line with the first few episodes, that feel like they're capturing the spirit of the books, much more than last weeks, which just felt like fan fiction.

[Figs and Mice]

OK I enjoyed some parts of that one , with the proviso that the whole healing thing has got out of hand. (And I agree the Alanna stuff continues to be pretty ropey) . As expected  , the Aiel girl stood in for the unfortunate casualty in Tear so that important scene for Rand has been executed.

 

Moggy was fun , as was the "music" scene in Tanchico ... and glad to see Thom back at last.

 

Not so happy with what they have done with Faile's backstory  (unless that was indeed her giving out more BS ?) . And I have never liked the Egwene/Rand/Lanfear "triangle" stuff so hopefully this episode has ended that altogether. 

 

Still reckon most of the changes they've made are far from being improvements to the story , and in many cases render it a lot weaker.  But on the other hand at least it gives those of us hardened book fans a bit of a bonus in that we never quite know what is going to happen next so an element of surprise has been added to the viewing experience 🙂

 

Two episodes to go. 2 Rivers battle to take up most of one , I guess . Going to be a bit crowded fitting the rest of book 4 in ...

[DigificWriter]

  On 4/3/2025 at 11:35 AM, Figs and Mice said:

Going to be a bit crowded fitting the rest of book 4 in ...

Expand  

 

I honestly think that the show actually has far less story to 'get to' than some people might think.

 

Based on where the narrative focus has been, we've got 4 big 'events' left:

1. The Battle of the Two Rivers

2. Mat and the Eelfinn

3. Alcair Dal and whatever is supposed to happen there

4. Moiraine's death

 

All four of these plots can be isolated in pairs, with the first two happening in Episode 7 and the last two happening in Episode 8, with an 'epilogue' that gets the story headed towards Tear and also 'keys up' other things like the introduction of the 8th Forsaken and the culmination of Elaida's machinations.

[DaddyFinn]

Cauthon girls healing Alanna so easily was my only complaint in this episode. I give it a pass though, since our heroes always managed to create needed weaves pretty much every single time even if they had no training or never made them before.

 

The show does need to stop giving our heroes mortal wounds in every episode and heal them immediately. It's getting a bit tiring.

 

I almost wish Rand had done the marionette thingy with the girl's corpse. What we got was plenty enough. Well done.

[DigificWriter]

  On 4/3/2025 at 2:21 PM, DaddyFinn said:

I almost wish Rand had done the marionette thingy with the girl's corpse.

Expand  

 

There was absolutely no chance that Rafe and Co. were going to go that far.

 

  On 4/3/2025 at 2:21 PM, DaddyFinn said:

Cauthon girls healing Alanna so easily was my only complaint in this episode.

Expand  

 

Any magic system in Fantasy - even a 'hard' one - is going to be utilized ('function', wasnt the right term to use) at the 'requirement of plot'. It's just a fact of the genre. Alanna needed to be Healed, so Mat's sisters were able to instinctively Channel the required Weaves to do so. It doesn't 'break' the magic system in any way because the narrative explanation can be the same one used for Egwene and Nynaeve: that they're incredibly strong due to the Blood of Manetherin running deep in The Two Rivers (both the village and the region).

Edited April 3 by DigificWriter

[king of nowhere]

make room for me on the "no way two untrained girls can heal so easily" train

well, except that nynaeve has been doing it forever. and other wilders also had healing tricks. but that's a sort of talent, not something learned, healing is extremely difficult.

they could have greatly improved the scene by having alanna show healing first: "i can't use this on myself, and i'm too weak to channel more than a trickle, but you have to weave the flows like this". would have been less of a stretch.

i hope they didn't just kill sammael like that; lanfear regenerated from a slit throat, and ishamael dissolved into dust when killed, sammael can't just lie there dead. by the way, why nobody is paying attention to the foresaken? moiraine should be cold enough to keep an eye on him, maybe try to finish him off. the alsera scene worked well, though.

 

aside from that, i liked that episode a lot. we know that book!elayne would listen attentively to those kind of songs whenever she could, and as a princess she could reasonably have taken singing lessons, so i don't have any issue with her knowing the song and having the skill to sing.

i'm glad to see thom back in the show, and even gladder (is that even a word?) that the andoran court bard part of his backstory is kept. nice how he helped elayne, glib hero as always. i was hoping we'd have also mat gambling spree. maybe next episode.

moghedien interrogating the girls was magnificent. moghedien killing ispan? why? she wouldn't waste a useful pawn. wait, probably she didn't kill her, and she'll wake up all right?

perrin and faile felt natural. the scene where they are telling their deepest secrets to each other worked for me. too bad her changed backstory means we'll never see davram and deirdre; they were minor characters easily cut, but they were fun.

 

but the scene that most surprised me was rand and egwene. i was fully expecting rand being an idiot and egwene being all nice and perfect and innocent and rafe's favourite flawless character, but rand correctly points out that egwene was always ready to leave him when something more interesting came up. in the end, the blame was split. i wasn't giving rafe enough credit.

 

EDIT: oh, i forgot to squee about the aiel farm. i always complain that we never see farmland, we see large cities in the middle of mountains or forests that could never sustain them. i love that we get to see an aiel farm

 

 

Edited April 3 by king of nowhere

[Mirefox]

Reactions while watching:

 

1.  Wait, what?  Ishy was in TAR 95 years ago?

 

2. Moggy spitting in the food🤣.

 

Edit:  Oh wait, it went from funny to horrifying.

 

3. I know what they are setting up with the little girl, but they’ve already used the cliched trope of having the closed and distant woman begin to melt when she watches the warrior being good with children in season 1 when Nyn and Lan had the exact same scene…

 

5.  Thom still sucks.  They gave him some colors in his coat, but he still has nothing in common at all with the book character.  They also didn’t use him enough in S1 to make me think that Mat (who was not in his right mind then) would hear that voice across a market, have it mean anything, then even get excited about finding him.  
 

6.  This TAR nonsense is backwards.  Eggy didn’t just stumble through it last episode, she showed mastery.  She was able to instantly control it, guide another through it, and visit the dreams she wanted.  But now she’s learning?

 

7.  Rand’s talk with Moiraine was…interesting.  We finally got a saidin/saidar distinction (should have happened in S1), and even a cut-off mention of it being gendered.  But Rand’s lines seem to be implying that the writers want to take this in some direction where everyone realizes there’s just one power?  I’m not entirely sure where they are going with this.

 

8.  Good grief, if Mat’s sisters are going to heal Alanna….yep, it happened.  There are absolutely zero stakes in this show, wounds of any kind mean nothing unless the writers want them to, and everyone can heal just about anything.  
 

9. Avi with swords was complete and utter garbage.  I don’t care if they weren’t real, she still wielded them, fought with them.  And no, they weren’t spears.
 

Tanchico was fun, Elayne was fun, Moggy was creepy, all of that was good.

[Mirefox]

  On 4/3/2025 at 10:22 AM, Irvyne said:

 

- As Perrin and Faile were getting to know each other, I was thinking it would be good if they stretched the relationship out a bit. Maybe save their official "getting together" for another season or two. Since, y'know, he was just telling her about how he fridged his wife. Oh. Nope. They're making out. Okay then. Anyone else think that was kind of sudden? Especially since the subject they were discussing was Mat...? 🤨

 

Expand  

The only way these writers know how to show a relationship is by having characters bang.  They couldn’t write an evolving relationship to save their lives.  

[Skipp]

This episode was very fun aside from a couple of moments.

 

The Biggest elephant was certainly the healing done by Mats sisters.  There were other ways to handle this that I think could have worked better.  Ah well at least for my head canon I will think that the girls developed a talent so they could heal their mother who was so often sick after coming home from the inn.

 

Not sure why I am not liking the dialogue in Egwene's training scenes.  I don't really know why but something seems off to me.  I have little issue with the skills that Egwene has shown in the dreamworld it is just the training scenes that are bothering me.

 

Back on the topic of healing at least characters spent an episode dealing with their wounds.  I actually thought Alanna might bite it as I didn't recall seeing any scenes of her during the battle in the brief trailers we have gotten.

 

I was a little worried with how they would handle the breakup scene between Ran and Egwene but I think they pulled it off solidly.  I think it could have been better but they addressed the points I wanted them to.  Now I am looking forward to Rand confronting Lanfear about it.

 

I loved the talk that Moiraine and Rand had, saidin and saidar fully mentioned at last!

 

I really enjoyed the Perrin and Faile scenes.  Perrin has always been my favourite character in the books and Faile is up the list as well.  And while this seemed quick we know they have spent a week or two together at this point.  I dunno I just liked the dialogue between them.  I am not sure if Faile is being honest about her background, I have little reason to doubt her aside from book knowledge.

 

The episode scene stealer belongs to all of the Tanchico cast.  Bloody brilliant between all of them.  Loved seeing Thom back and Mat just badgering him to stay just a little longer.  Ceara once again shows how talented she is interacting with any member of the cast.  I loved Elayne's attempt to blend in with the accent and story.  The Hills of Tanchico have been stuck in my head all morning.

 

Min and Nynaeve had a surprising great interaction, quite interesting to see Nynaeve let her braid down so to speak.  In the BTS for the episode Zoe mentioned how she had to figure out how to laugh as Nynaeve and Josha joked that it only took 4 years.

 

The Moggy scene with Elayne and Nynaeve was everything I hoped for.  So freaking tense, so fun seeing her just casually strut in and take control.  So amazing to see Nynaeve almost resist her.

 

And finally the biggest scene of the show;  Rand, Sammael and the little girl.  While the battle left much to be desired I was blown away at how easily Rand bodied Sammael.  The Forsaken mentioned that Sammael was the weakest among them but it was nice to see Rand display his power.  Should put to rest some of the complaints about Rands power. 

 

Comment about a leaked audition script

  Reveal hidden contents

I wonder if he will be captured as I think there was a leaked script about it.

 

 

And Rand with Alsera was heartbreaking.  Not quite the same as the books but very powerful.  I am looking forward to see how my partner reacts to it.

[Vosha]

  On 4/3/2025 at 2:58 PM, Mirefox said:

9. Avi with swords was complete and utter garbage.  I don’t care if they weren’t real, she still wielded them, fought with them.  And no, they weren’t spears.
 

 

Expand  

 

What?  Those were 100% spears.  You can tell by how the blades are shaped (tapered) and where she's holding them. 

[Mirefox]

  On 4/3/2025 at 4:47 PM, Vosha said:

 

What?  Those were 100% spears.  You can tell by how the blades are shaped (tapered) and where she's holding them. 

Expand  

I just watched it frame by frame.  When she first manifests them, the one in her right hand might be a spear as there might be a visible spear shaft behind her hand.  She then proceeds to downward slash everything in sight, twirl it over her head, do some sort of downward block (with clearly no spear shaft visible).  

 

If I were to concede that they were spears so as not to destroy the lore, then the other option is pure dog crap fight choreography that’s intended to look cool but makes no sense.

[Vosha]

  On 4/3/2025 at 5:05 PM, Mirefox said:

I just watched it frame by frame.  When she first manifests them, the one in her right hand might be a spear as there might be a visible spear shaft behind her hand.  She then proceeds to downward slash everything in sight, twirl it over her head, do some sort of downward block (with clearly no spear shaft visible).  

 

If I were to concede that they were spears so as not to destroy the lore, then the other option is pure dog crap fight choreography that’s intended to look cool but makes no sense.

Expand  

 

I mean, not here to argue the choreography since I'm no expert and it looked fine to me.  Just pointing out that they're pretty clearly spears and there is really no reasonable argument that the team doing the show would make them swords. 

[fearbrog]

Rand should have let Egg do the healing. She would've succeeded.

[king of nowhere]

  On 4/3/2025 at 5:05 PM, Mirefox said:

I just watched it frame by frame.  When she first manifests them, the one in her right hand might be a spear as there might be a visible spear shaft behind her hand.  She then proceeds to downward slash everything in sight, twirl it over her head, do some sort of downward block (with clearly no spear shaft visible).  

 

If I were to concede that they were spears so as not to destroy the lore, then the other option is pure dog crap fight choreography that’s intended to look cool but makes no sense.

Expand  

i didn't like the fight myself either.

but i can accept it from aviendha; she's barely trained in the power, but she has a lot of experience with the spear, so making spears of flame may make sense to her.

 

i don't accept a foresaken using a weapon, though. that's just silly.

[Vosha]

  On 4/3/2025 at 5:44 PM, king of nowhere said:

i didn't like the fight myself either.

but i can accept it from aviendha; she's barely trained in the power, but she has a lot of experience with the spear, so making spears of flame may make sense to her.

 

i don't accept a foresaken using a weapon, though. that's just silly.

Expand  

Why would it be silly? 

[king of nowhere]

  On 4/3/2025 at 5:47 PM, Vosha said:

Why would it be silly? 

Expand  

is that even a serious question?

you have the power to blow up stuff on a large scale from a distance, and you use it to make a cudgel and bludgeon someone. it would be like going in melee with a tank and trying to hit the enemy with the barrel of the gun instead of just shooting.

[DigificWriter]

  On 4/3/2025 at 6:08 PM, king of nowhere said:

is that even a serious question?

you have the power to blow up stuff on a large scale from a distance, and you use it to make a cudgel and bludgeon someone. it would be like going in melee with a tank and trying to hit the enemy with the barrel of the gun instead of just shooting.

Expand  

 

Did you likewise find Leanne beating people to death with her Keeper's Staff or Alanna almost stabbing Liandrin with a dagger made of Air Weaves 'silly'?

Edited April 3 by DigificWriter

[Vosha]

  On 4/3/2025 at 6:08 PM, king of nowhere said:

is that even a serious question?

you have the power to blow up stuff on a large scale from a distance, and you use it to make a cudgel and bludgeon someone. it would be like going in melee with a tank and trying to hit the enemy with the barrel of the gun instead of just shooting.

Expand  

 

Demandred literally used a physical sword in the last battle and Rand got the wound in his side from a staff wielded by one of the Forsaken in the books.  That's levels of magnitude below what you're complaining about. 

 

[king of nowhere]

  On 4/3/2025 at 6:20 PM, DigificWriter said:

 

Did you likewise find Leanne beating people to death with her Keeper's Staff or Alanna almost stabbing Liandrin with a dagger made of Air Weaves 'silly'?

Expand  

no, for two reasons:

1) they were already in melee range, due to the hall being relatively small. in that context, the staff is an effective weapon

2) she was also fighting with the power. the staff was something extra.

 

it's like using a knife in modern warfare, actually. yes, sometimes it's done. sometimes you are in a trench and an enemy comes out from a corner and stabbing is faster than shooting - and less impeded by narrow confines.

but going out of your trench to stab an enemy when you could have just shoot him is stupid.

leane in the tower is the first case.

sammael is the second.

  On 4/3/2025 at 6:48 PM, Vosha said:

 

Demandred literally used a physical sword in the last battle and Rand got the wound in his side from a staff wielded by one of the Forsaken in the books.  That's levels of magnitude below what you're complaining about. 

 

Expand  

demandred wanted to beat rand in a sword duel to prove himself best, because he was an egomaniac. that was boasting. for actually fighting, he was throwing around balefire.

ishamael wasn't trying to kill rand, but to turn him, which required breaking rand first.

[notpropaganda73]

  On 4/3/2025 at 2:35 PM, DigificWriter said:

Any magic system in Fantasy - even a 'hard' one - is going to be utilized ('function', wasnt the right term to use) at the 'requirement of plot'. It's just a fact of the genre. Alanna needed to be Healed, so Mat's sisters were able to instinctively Channel the required Weaves to do so. It doesn't 'break' the magic system in any way because the narrative explanation can be the same one used for Egwene and Nynaeve: that they're incredibly strong due to the Blood of Manetherin running deep in The Two Rivers (both the village and the region).

Expand  

 

My issue with the whole thing is just writing decisions and Healing in general in the show. Alanna needed to be Healed - no doubt about that. But she needed to be Healed because the writers' made that decision. 

 

There was absolutely zero need for her to have been riddled with so many arrows in her fight with the Whitecloaks. Have her be taken out with one, two, hell even three arrows, nasty enough for Maksim to come back and save her but not so bad that she's about to die. Have her back in the Two Rivers ok, but not in a great way, able to Heal Perrin a little, but needing to rest. Have her discover the two girls can channel, still have her teach them to embrace the Source (I loved that!), even have her teach them a very basic Healing weave so that they can fix up her wound enough that she's back on her feet, but not in great shape! Perfect! 

 

But no, the show had to go OTT with how badly she was injured and again just over use Healing and the level of training needed for what should be an incredibly complex weave. And no doubt Alanna will be up and at them and in full fighting condition for the Battle next episode. 

 

The show again and again fails with this. On the one hand there are absolutely zero stakes, and on the other the stakes are so high that we have Rand trying to resurrect a little girl all the while people watch him worried if the madness has him.

 

The show is inconsistent with the seriousness of these moments scene to scene, it's really taking me out of it and is so frustrating.

[Mirefox]

  On 4/3/2025 at 8:08 PM, notpropaganda73 said:

 

My issue with the whole thing is just writing decisions and Healing in general in the show. Alanna needed to be Healed - no doubt about that. But she needed to be Healed because the writers' made that decision. 

 

There was absolutely zero need for her to have been riddled with so many arrows in her fight with the Whitecloaks. Have her be taken out with one, two, hell even three arrows, nasty enough for Maksim to come back and save her but not so bad that she's about to die. Have her back in the Two Rivers ok, but not in a great way, able to Heal Perrin a little, but needing to rest. Have her discover the two girls can channel, still have her teach them to embrace the Source (I loved that!), even have her teach them a very basic Healing weave so that they can fix up her wound enough that she's back on her feet, but not in great shape! Perfect! 

 

But no, the show had to go OTT with how badly she was injured and again just over use Healing and the level of training needed for what should be an incredibly complex weave. And no doubt Alanna will be up and at them and in full fighting condition for the Battle next episode. 

 

The show again and again fails with this. On the one hand there are absolutely zero stakes, and on the other the stakes are so high that we have Rand trying to resurrect a little girl all the while people watch him worried if the madness has him.

 

The show is inconsistent with the seriousness of these moments scene to scene, it's really taking me out of it and is so frustrating.

Expand  

Agree 100%. Deus ex machina is one of the laziest and most immature story devices and its overuse always lessens the stakes.  It doesn’t matter if the genre is fantasy, competent writers will look to minimize it.  It is especially obnoxious in film and television where there is often less exposition like you might get in a book to explain it.  But you’re spot on - the writers didn’t need to do it here, but they wrote themselves a problem they likely didn’t have an immediate solution for and waved their magic little writers’ wands and made some healers.  This show is lousy with example after example of this and even uses it in lieu of actual character growth.

 

On top op this, how was Eggy’s first lesson with Moiraine in this show?  Based on what we’ve been show, the Cauthon girls are vastly more powerful than Egwene if this show wants any internal consistency.

Edited April 3 by Mirefox

[DigificWriter]

Alanna was made as hurt as she was precisely to raise the stakes, and to heighten the drama.

 

If she wasn't riddled with arrows, the Whitecloaks' threat level would be diminished and they wouldn't be seen as credible or competent foes.

 

At the same time, though, Alanna still has to be involved in the upcoming story... hence the utilization of Mat's sisters being able to Heal her 

 

It's not inconsistent writing or inconsistent depiction of the limitations of the magic; it's adapting the utilization of the magic to fit specific plot requirements.