Is Aes Sedai power creep a problem?

[Mirefox]

I suppose this topic can have some spoilers for both the show and the book, though I'll try not to spoil specific events, but just discuss abilities.

 

I am a bit concerned with the level of power the Aes Sedai exhibit thus far and am wondering if it is problematic.  I do acknowledge that the use of powers creates spectacle, which is great for a visual medium; there is no denying that the fight to start season 3 was visually cool.  Yet it seems to me that the Aes Sedai are far to powerful than they ought to be at the moment.

 

Consider that in the books, one of the defining charateristics of the Aes Sedai is how little they know of the power, having forgotten almost everything from the Age of Legends.  The Forsaken even go so far as to label their lack of skills as childlike.  This is important because if offers a stark contrast between the Aes Sedai, who are initially seen as incredibly powerful, and characters like the Forsaken, Rand, and then the wonder girls who surpass them by orders of magnitude.

 

Between the end of season 2 and the beginnng of season 3, though, we see feats of weaving that would have been earth-shattering in the books, from Moiraine sinking a fleet from who knows how far off to makng someone vomit blood, cutting a sister in half, instantly killing a sister with a weave to the forehead, and healing wounds in Nyn and Perrin that should have been fatal.  On top of that, channeling is supposed to be draining for these women, and bigger weaves cause exhaustion and - as seen with Moiraine - unconsuiousness.  We saw a bit of that in S1E1, but they juxtoposed that with a trolloc wound.

 

Here's why I think this matters:

 

1. This diminishes how special it is for Nyn, Eggy, and Elayne to excel.  Yes, they will discover some things that were thought lost, ut Nyn as a healer doesn't seem all that special anymore, since it seems like anything aside from instant death can just be healed away now.  Maybe if she goes super-saiyan and mass heals, or actually resurrects somone, it will be special, but they've taken that from her a bit.  The same goes for other weaves that we will see the girls perform.

 

2. This also diminishes Rand's relative power, or at least seems to.  This also seems to take away from some of his more intersting weaves, like the power-wrought blade, which we've now seen.  Also, balefire.  One of the biggest temtations Rand has to use balefire is that it is essentially an instant kill.  That was earth-shattering in the books.  Well, we've seen a similar power used here against two Aes Sedai at once.

 

For me, this is a little like the Harry Potter movies where in the first series we saw spells being created with a flick of a want and clear diction, but come the Fantastic Beasts movies, the wizards are slinging spells around rapid-fire without verbalization.  It was jarring, even if within the lore verbaliation wasn't necessary all the time; there was a difference in visual tone with how spellcasting was represented.  Here we have the Fantastic Beasts scenario as I think Aes Sedai power doesn't jive with how they should be according to the books or even the show lore at this point.

 

The solution to power creep is, of course, more power creep but at some point the distinction between the ability to kill multiple people at once to the ability to kill more multiple peoples at once becomes inconsequential.

 

I cna't help but feel I wish the Aes Sedai seemed more limited in their abilities now so as to have a greater impact on abilities in the future.

[king of nowhere]

Cutting people in two with air is not hard.

Actually, i'd say the worst power creep was the destruction of the trollocs in  the end of S1.

Healing is also too effective; seems like everyone has the improved healing that nyn invented halfway through the books. I don't think it will be a big issue.

Everyone being able to heal may be, though

[Elder_Haman]

The healing power creep is the biggest problem for me. It's tricky, but you have to keep the stakes high.

[Mirefox]

  On 3/15/2025 at 4:33 PM, Elder_Haman said:

The healing power creep is the biggest problem for me. It's tricky, but you have to keep the stakes high.

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But stakes aren’t very high when getting stabbed a dozen times, for example, doesn’t matter.

[Elder_Haman]

  On 3/15/2025 at 5:15 PM, Mirefox said:

But stakes aren’t very high when getting stabbed a dozen times, for example, doesn’t matter.

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Yes. That was my point.

[Windigo]

The healing power creep really is an issue. 
It makes me really wonder how they are going to elevate Nynaeve having better/stronger healing talents, unless they only focus on her healing the mind, which they have called out as limited. 

Show Season 3 Spoiler 

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that there was no obvious effect for Moiraine after having to heal, Nynaeve, Perrin and Egwene, and none of them were weak from it really bothered me. 

 

[Andy MacLeod]

I think that is exactly where they are going with Nynaeve being able to heal the mind.

[Donchadh]

  On 3/15/2025 at 9:34 PM, Andy MacLeod said:

that is exactly where they are going with Nynaeve being able to heal the mind.

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It would certainly seem to make a natural tie-in to later healing Logain....

[Andy MacLeod]

Exactly!

[Turin Turambar]

That makes sense. I also think that when Nyn comes into her own by beating the block (hurry up already),

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I know it takes longer in books.but she was mostly able to channel most times by being angry, which she was good at, lol.

She will quickly be able to do things quicker and better than current AS are performing. 

[Donchadh]

  On 3/16/2025 at 8:25 AM, Turin Turambar said:

that when Nyn comes into her own by beating the block

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Agreed.  And I'm liking how the hunt for BA was set up.  That said, I really appreciated the scene of compassion between Nyn and Mat - I thought it brought out that driving motivation for Nyn even better than the books. 

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And don't get me started on the Mat and Amyrlin encounter - LOVED IT.  But can't wait for Mat to find his footing as well.....

 

[Turin Turambar]

The show has done an amazing job of having grown up conversations,  something that was frequently missing in the books. Like how many problems could have been avoided by talking to each other?

 

[Elder_Haman]

  On 3/16/2025 at 2:45 PM, Turin Turambar said:

The show has done an amazing job of having grown up conversations,  something that was frequently missing in the books. Like how many problems could have been avoided by talking to each other?

 

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Basically all of them. 

[notpropaganda73]

As mentioned I think the biggest issue is the Healing power creep. I appreciate the idea of Nynaeve being able to Heal the mind which could be a great arc, but I still have an issue with the lack of stakes so long as an Aes Sedai is nearby to Heal. The Grey Man on Nynaeve really was overboard.

 

I am not too bothered about big displays of the power outside of the Healing, although Moiraine's display at the end of S2 just didn't work for me within the story (I really didn't enjoy the S2 finale and thought that power display was a bit weird and pointless). It doesn't bother me that she was able to do it. 

 

But I do agree that the apparent lack of fatigue is an issue for me as well. But I am willing to let this play out a little. Whereas with Healing I think they have established how powerful it is, so the show has given itself a problem I don't really see how they can fix at this point.

[Donchadh]

I had not really appreciated this perspective.  Thank you.  I did notice during the "Hall battle" that AS doing healing weave seemed to take that person out of the battle completely - which has huge tactical implications. 

[Storeebooq]

It is a little disappointing to me that they haven't revisited the power "burn out" that they showed in Season 1 at all. There were clear dangers to over channeling and it's not mentioned since. They also could have dropped in an in-show explanation for Nyn's being healed at the end of S1 and that was sad that it didn't happen. 

 

Aside from Moraine's display at the end of S2, I'm not really seeing a huge power creep among the Aes Sedai. The tower battle felt legit to me, aside from them absolutely sucking at tactics. I can also excuse that, because even the Red's and Greens are more used to fighting stray male channelers and possibly trollocs than other women channelers, especially those who they are supposed to trust. 

 

The healing, while convenient, is also fine. It was also pretty dependable in the books, and you just expected that unless someone had their head chopped off, they were going to get healed. A dude even had his throat cut and head nearly taken off and was healed up by a member of the Kin...so yeah. The books might have started out saying Aes Sedai were weaker than expected, but that changed, especially in the later half of the series. 

 

 

 

 

[SinisterDeath]

  On 3/18/2025 at 6:07 PM, Storeebooq said:

It is a little disappointing to me that they haven't revisited the power "burn out" that they showed in Season 1 at all. There were clear dangers to over channeling and it's not mentioned since. They also could have dropped in an in-show explanation for Nyn's being healed at the end of S1 and that was sad that it didn't happen. 

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Huh, you know now that you mention it...

 

Why was Liandrin getting all bloody from being Shielded?

Could she have been trying to over-channel to break out?

[Storeebooq]

  On 3/18/2025 at 6:15 PM, SinisterDeath said:

Huh, you know now that you mention it...

 

Why was Liandrin getting all bloody from being Shielded?

Could she have been trying to over-channel to break out?

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I think she was bloody from all that blood she spat out while Siuan was attacking her with fire and who knows what else. =] 

[SinisterDeath]

  On 3/18/2025 at 6:18 PM, Storeebooq said:

I think she was bloody from all that blood she spat out while Siuan was attacking her with fire and who knows what else. =] 

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Ah now there's the fun. We know she was shielding Liandrin with the help of the others, and we don't really know what all was going on in that shield.

 

From the video we can clearly see Liandrin trying to force herself to breakthrough that shield.

 

Suian's bumping a lot of energy into that shield to keep her from breaking out.

 

At this point it's just Suian v Liandrin.

 

Compared to S1 - Untrained channeler who 100% burns out.

Note the blood?

And Nynaeve who only gets crispy fried.

 

[Elder_Haman]

  On 3/18/2025 at 6:07 PM, Storeebooq said:

It is a little disappointing to me that they haven't revisited the power "burn out" that they showed in Season 1 at all.

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To be fair, there hasn't been too much opportunity to do so. I suspect they'll circle back at some point, now that it's been established as a thing. I have to say that the writing has been doing a very good job of not dropping plot threads.

 

Having said that, where is the dagger? That seems important.

[Donchadh]

  On 3/18/2025 at 6:07 PM, Storeebooq said:

The tower battle felt legit to me, aside from them absolutely sucking at tactics.

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Agreed.  Like why didn't Alana have her warders use a crossbow ambush instead of attacking with swords and exposing themselves to Power attacks - foolish. 

 

  On 3/18/2025 at 6:43 PM, Elder_Haman said:

Having said that, where is the dagger? That seems important.

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Yeah, the dagger (and the DIY Ashaaderi) have disappeared - perhaps like the Horn(?) - into the depths of Tower keeping? 

[Storeebooq]

  On 3/18/2025 at 6:35 PM, SinisterDeath said:

Ah now there's the fun. We know she was shielding Liandrin with the help of the others, and we don't really know what all was going on in that shield.

 

From the video we can clearly see Liandrin trying to force herself to breakthrough that shield.

 

Suian's bumping a lot of energy into that shield to keep her from breaking out.

 

At this point it's just Suian v Liandrin.

 

Compared to S1 - Untrained channeler who 100% burns out.

Note the blood?

And Nynaeve who only gets crispy fried.

 

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Interesting, very interesting. 

 

I originally assumed the blood and red burns on Liandrin's face were from the fire thrown around her, but I could also see it coming from some push and burn out. We know she established the precedent of doing it when she was working to shield Logain in S1. 

 

Honestly, if this was intentional and her and Siuan were over-drawing during that fight, I would be really impressed with the production team because it's consistent. 

[books of Robert Jordan]

  On 3/16/2025 at 2:45 PM, Turin Turambar said:

having grown up conversations,  something that was frequently missing in the books. Like how many problems could have been avoided by talking to each other?

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You should read an interview (at least) with Robert Jordan sometimes, just an idea, and see what he says about it.

 

On the so-called grown up conversations: I've read many-many-many-many show praising reviews and comments, and you are the first one with the "show has good dialogues".   

[Elder_Haman]

  On 3/19/2025 at 11:01 PM, books of Robert Jordan said:

the first one with the "show has good dialogues

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Perhaps a function of the show lifting more dialogue directly from the books this season. 

[Mailman]

  On 3/16/2025 at 2:45 PM, Turin Turambar said:

The show has done an amazing job of having grown up conversations,  something that was frequently missing in the books. Like how many problems could have been avoided by talking to each other?

 

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  On 3/16/2025 at 5:04 PM, Elder_Haman said:

Basically all of them. 

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Could you provide some examples out of basically all of them.

Book 1 where they don't talk to Moiraine I feel is unfair as they don't fully trust her and they do in fact consult Thom for advice a very adult conversation to a complicated problem.

Later books Rand and Moiraine have communication issues due to a lack of trust. 

 

But I am struggling to find how basically all the other problems in the series could have been resolved with a bit more communication?

 

You guys have a go at me for finding problems in the show but I seriously wonder how some of you ever really enjoyed the books with the amount of issues you bring up about them.