Guessing the 8 Forsaken

[notpropaganda73]

  On 3/17/2025 at 12:25 AM, Jaysen Gore said:

I don't much like this idea - having Forsaken behind every group of antagonists simplifies the world entirely too much. Having the Shaido, and the Whitecloaks, and Elaida and for the most part the Seanchan (I mean, really, how important was **** to them?) be different flavours of villains is important to the complexities of the world.

 

Similar to the Morgase discussion, good people can do evil, evil people can do good, and no one can walk so long in the dark that they can't come back to the light. But if it is everyone against our heroes are agents of the Shadow, then it's too clean.

Expand  

completely agree and even from a show-only perspective, it adds to the "who is a DF' element - when evil people are revealed to just be evil and not tied to the Shadow, it adds a layer of complexity on character motivations and I think is rewarding for a show-only watcher. This world isn't simply good people versus the Dark One and his followers.

[DreadLord31]

  On 3/17/2025 at 12:25 AM, Jaysen Gore said:

Similar to the Morgase discussion, good people can do evil, evil people can do good, and no one can walk so long in the dark that they can't come back to the light. But if it is everyone against our heroes are agents of the Shadow, then it's too clean.

Expand  

You make a compelling point. I like it. And I recant. 😉 

 

Do you think we’ll still get Asmo or someone else? Demandred & he just shows up way later (like season 8)? 

Edited Tuesday at 03:51 AM by DreadLord31

[DreadLord31]

  On 3/17/2025 at 9:39 AM, notpropaganda73 said:

completely agree and even from a show-only perspective, it adds to the "who is a DF' element - when evil people are revealed to just be evil and not tied to the Shadow, it adds a layer of complexity on character motivations and I think is rewarding for a show-only watcher. This world isn't simply good people versus the Dark One and his followers.

Expand  

Another good point, but I already took my dumb idea back - so there! I vehemently agree with you both completely. But who do you think is the 8th Forsaken? 

[DigificWriter]

It's still hard for me to reconcile Lanfear's comment to Ishy with the confirmation of a 4/4 gender split and the inclusion of Semirharge, but we are where we are.

 

Anyway, the last unidentified Forsaken is most likely Asmodean because all of the fandom's collective guesses as to which statues matched which Forsaken have been proven correct thus far and there's not any reason to think that streak is going to be broken on the last one.

Edited Tuesday at 04:42 AM by DigificWriter

[Skipp]

I'd vote Asmodhean as well.  Aside from the guitar statue I think it is him because I don't think I can make any of the others work in the story well.  Not that I have a great track record of guessing plot points beforehand.

 

I don't think it will be Aginor as I think they may be combining him with Moggy. 

Not Bel'al because we don't need a cardboard cutout

Not Balthamel as I don't think he really brings anything interesting to the table that isn't just a SA lawsuit waiting to happen.  His 2 defining things in the books are been a lech and the male soul in a female body thing.  I just don't see them willing to tackle those subjects.

Mesaana is a possibility aside from the balance of a 4/4 split.  But I think she could be easily combined with another character.  Possibly just leave the tower forsaken free and have the Towers downfall be entirely Elaida's incompetence and the BA's influence.  Then again with Shoreh cast maybe Elaida won't be AS incompetent.

 

I could see Demandred but I feel they would have to create story for him to bring in in earlier.  Then again everything he does could be done by Sammael.  They both are similar, not exact, but similar characters.

 

[notpropaganda73]

It's got to be Asmodean in my opinion. How else will Rand learn? I thought they might give Logain that role but he needs to be healed, and I think things are moving too slowly in that regard to get Rand where he needs to be. So really we are left with Asmodean. 

 

I think the thing with both Mesaana and Demandred is that the current Forsaken in the show can fulfill their roles. They don't do anything in particular that can't be taken on by another Forsaken for show purposes, which gives the current Forsaken more to do and makes them more of a threat (particularly Sammael). Whereas Asmodean's role is so specific, I struggle to see how the show replaces him. 

[SinisterDeath]

  On 3/18/2025 at 10:14 AM, notpropaganda73 said:

It's got to be Asmodean in my opinion. How else will Rand learn? I thought they might give Logain that role but he needs to be healed, and I think things are moving too slowly in that regard to get Rand where he needs to be. So really we are left with Asmodean. 

 

I think the thing with both Mesaana and Demandred is that the current Forsaken in the show can fulfill their roles. They don't do anything in particular that can't be taken on by another Forsaken for show purposes, which gives the current Forsaken more to do and makes them more of a threat (particularly Sammael). Whereas Asmodean's role is so specific, I struggle to see how the show replaces him. 

Expand  

This is why I'm going with my theory of Asmo'gar.

 

We may get a gender-non-conforming Boy George-esque Asmo, who may very well be using a mask of Mirrors.. Asmo'Gar could have been posing as "Alice" playing some mind games with Eliada, while Rahvin was doing his stuff in Andor.

 

Further keeping some of Aran'gars more lecherous traits... Asmo'gar could be constantly flirting with Rand... which would drive Lanfear absolutely batty.

 

On the other end of this. I could be completely wrong on who Asmo'gar would be flirting with, and it might just be Lan who Asmo'gar is flirting with...

[DigificWriter]

The Balthamel/Aran'gar thing is unnecessary because the show already changed the Metaphysics o so that the concept of a male soul being reborn in a female body is 'baked in' to how Reincarnation works.

[SinisterDeath]

  On 3/18/2025 at 2:50 PM, DigificWriter said:

The Balthamel/Aran'gar thing is unnecessary because the show already changed the Metaphysics o so that the concept of a male soul being reborn in a female body is 'baked in' to how Reincarnation works.

 

Expand  

I'm not even talking about that aspect.

I'm talking about a gender-non-conforming character.

 

Kind of like how Min, who is Female dresses masculine. Is Masc Presenting.

 

Why can't Asmo dress more Feminine like Boy George?

 

Also, who's to say they haven't upgrade the Mask of Mirrors like they've upgraded Compulsion? 

E.g. allow a guy to walk around in a very female body, using compulsion, to infiltrate the Aiel? 

 

Nothing about that has to do with how the show changed the metaphysics, or even the characters "soul".

 

Now, you could get into how from an Optics angle, they have a good character like Min (F dresses M), and a Bad character (M dresses F), might send a bad message, and that's a legitimate argument. But apparently the Colorism argument against the show for 2 seasons has been completely ignored by the writers and directors in season 3, so... yeah.

[DigificWriter]

  On 3/18/2025 at 3:01 PM, SinisterDeath said:

I'm not even talking about that aspect.

I'm talking about a gender-non-conforming character.

 

Kind of like how Min, who is Female dresses masculine. Is Masc Presenting.

 

Why can't Asmo dress more Feminine like Boy George?

 

Also, who's to say they haven't upgrade the Mask of Mirrors like they've upgraded Compulsion? 

E.g. allow a guy to walk around in a very female body, using compulsion, to infiltrate the Aiel? 

 

Nothing about that has to do with how the show changed the metaphysics, or even the characters "soul".

 

Now, you could get into how from an Optics angle, they have a good character like Min (F dresses M), and a Bad character (M dresses F), might send a bad message, and that's a legitimate argument. But apparently the Colorism argument against the show for 2 seasons has been completely ignored by the writers and directors in season 3, so... yeah.

Expand  

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I actually like the idea of a Forsaken dressing in a way that doesn't conform to their biological gender, although I do believe that the statue that likely depicts Asmodean was carved with masculine clothing (which doesn't necessarily mean anything but still bears noting, I think).

[SinisterDeath]

  On 3/18/2025 at 4:54 PM, DigificWriter said:

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I actually like the idea of a Forsaken dressing in a way that doesn't conform to their biological gender, although I do believe that the statue that likely depicts Asmodean was carved with masculine clothing (which doesn't necessarily mean anything but still bears noting, I think).

Expand  

Honestly, I don't think we can guess to much about how they'll appear in the show based on how they're statues look. (They're honestly mostly easter eggs for book readers IMO)

 

But this neither screams masc or fem clothes to me. But it does say "Style". (Designs on the clothes)

 

If we were to go just by the statue... are they implying Asmo is Asian because they used a stereotypical caricature? Or is that some sort of extravagant eye makeup?

[Finnssss22]

Unless we see Rahvin playing an instrument, It has to be Asmodean doesn't it?

We'll see I guess.

 

So on another note, I was obviously wrong thinking they merged Lanfear and Semirhage.

So that said, if Lanfear has been more cruel and brutal than she was in the books, how far do they have to go with Semirhage now? That's kinda scary to think about.

[Storeebooq]

I agree that I think the last Forsaken to be shown will be Asmo. It just seems too convenient that a fourth male forsaken wasn't mentioned during the meetup. 

 

Also, in the books it was pretty significant that Lanfear and Asmo were present for Rand's whole arc in the Aeil Waste...so I know it won't be hard to get Lanfear involved somehow int he show, but I think it would be clever to have a "shocking" reveal that someone in the Aeil waste, a merchant or otherwise, is a Forsaken. They fight, he gets captured or convinced/forced to teach Rand and bahm, we have it. 

 

If they make it Sammael and he teaches Rand that will be pretty annoying >_<

[DreadLord31]

  On 3/18/2025 at 5:59 PM, Storeebooq said:

Also, in the books it was pretty significant that Lanfear and Asmo were present for Rand's whole arc in the Aeil Waste...so I know it won't be hard to get Lanfear involved somehow int he show, but I think it would be clever to have a "shocking" reveal that someone in the Aeil waste, a merchant or otherwise, is a Forsaken. They fight, he gets captured or convinced/forced to teach Rand and bahm, we have it. 

Expand  

 

Here's a hot take - but I have a premonition that I'm going be right on this one.

I bet the last Forsaken is Asmo and that

  Reveal hidden contents

He is with Tuatha'thon in the Waste & is pretending to be 'Way of the Leaf-ing' things! But then will surprise attack Rand here at the end of episode 4!

 

[Jaysen Gore]

  On 3/18/2025 at 8:16 PM, DreadLord31 said:

 

Here's a hot take - but I have a premonition that I'm going be right on this one.

I bet the last Forsaken is Asmo and that

  Reveal hidden contents

He is with Tuatha'thon in the Waste & is pretending to be 'Way of the Leaf-ing' things! But then will surprise attack Rand here at the end of episode 4!

 

Expand  

I'm positive it will be Asmodean; the musician statue is too much of a clue for it not to be him. But I have a slightly different hot take:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Rand gets back to camp from going through the pillars, and ends on him and the audience recognizing the bard that had been found by the Aiel after escaping from the Tua'athan massacre from the visions. Could also be done where we've seen the bard before Rand sees Asmo in the visions, so we know what's waiting for him. it makes us shudder with anticip.....

...

....

.....

.....

ation

 

[Sabio]

  On 3/18/2025 at 5:34 PM, Finnssss22 said:

Unless we see Rahvin playing an instrument, It has to be Asmodean doesn't it?

We'll see I guess.

 

So on another note, I was obviously wrong thinking they merged Lanfear and Semirhage.

So that said, if Lanfear has been more cruel and brutal than she was in the books, how far do they have to go with Semirhage now? That's kinda scary to think about.

Expand  

Sort of why I felt they should've had Semirhage be the one to make grey men since seems like torture to the individual, which would've fit her.  Just doesn't seem like Moghi's thing.

[Figs and Mice]

  On 3/21/2025 at 12:50 AM, Sabio said:

Sort of why I felt they should've had Semirhage be the one to make grey men since seems like torture to the individual, which would've fit her.  Just doesn't seem like Moghi's thing.

Expand  

I get the cruelty and Semirhage connection : but I think the sneaky "effectively invisible" aspect of the grey men rather screams Made by Moggy , does it not ?  

[DreadLord31]

I recently learned that “asmodeus” is a pretty famous ancient villain. One of the rulers of Hell and king over demons. 
In a number of Medieval texts. 
I wonder if that was the inspiration for the name or how Jordan named his Forsaken? 

[Sabio]

I suggest getting the book Origins of The Wheel of Time by Michael Livingston, it's a great read if you're looking for RJ's sources and inspirations.

[Sabio]

  On 3/21/2025 at 6:58 AM, Figs and Mice said:

I get the cruelty and Semirhage connection : but I think the sneaky "effectively invisible" aspect of the grey men rather screams Made by Moggy , does it not ?  

Expand  

Moghi isn't a risk taker and hides in the shadow so going by the show anytime a grey man is used it leads back to Moghi.  Which too me doesn't seem like her.

Edited 11 hours ago by Sabio