Rewatch Time

[Elder_Haman]

I started a re-watch this past week and have now finished S1. This time, I was watching purely for entertainment value and to remind myself of what happened in the show. I wasn't thinking about the books at all, or trying to do a "deep dive" or to watch critically. Here are my thoughts (in no particular order):

 

• I liked it better than I remembered. Episodes 2-5, in particular, are actually pretty good.
• I liked Shadar Logoth better than I remembered.
• Hate the battle with Logain's army just as much as I remembered.
• I'm starting to think we got so much of Nynaeve being overpowered only to really drive home the frustration of the block.
• Rand was pretty clearly the main character of the EFF from the beginning.
• Who is the Dragon was a dumb plotline that got even dumber when Barney left. Here's the big issue: by the time they got to E6, they had really sort of set it up as being either Mat or Rand. We were meant to think that Mat could channel. Then Moiraine heals him - and then we basically never see him again. Barney leaving clearly required them to rewrite the whole rest of the season from scratch.
• They did a great job with the casting.
• They did Lan dirty.
• The Stepin thing went on too long. Could have made the point without spending an entire episode on it.
• I didn't love the whole oath rod exile thing, but Sophie Okenado is a fantastic actress.

It's not great by any means, but I enjoyed the rewatch more than I thought I would. 

[Ralph]

in S1 e3 did anyone ever work what Mat starts to show Dana inside his coat and quickly stops? 

 

the dagger? 

[Andy MacLeod]

I keep forgetting S1... but I remember S2 better, and like it better as well at the rewatch.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Series 2 was much better, but having to do a load of rewrites half way through series 1 didn't help.

 

I already binged watched both series.

 

I'm so ready for series 3. It's not perfect. Even LOTR trilogy wasn't classed as perfect at the time. And GOT apparently changed so many things. Hopefully one day there will be a real ending to that and a book reader will tell me what should have happened.

 

But as a TV show based on a book series I really like, it's good and I enjoy seeing the people and places come to life.

[Turin Turambar]

Getting the chance to see iconic things from the books (even if in different ways), has been really nice. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Rand vs Turak was awesome.  

I can't wait to see some of the hinted at things for this year.

[Mailman]

  On 3/1/2025 at 12:33 AM, Turin Turambar said:

Getting the chance to see iconic things from the books (even if in different ways), has been really nice. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Rand vs Turak was awesome.  

I can't wait to see some of the hinted at things for this year.

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That scene meant less than nothing in comparison to the books.

[Turin Turambar]

OK.  Would you have accepted Rand being able to defeat a true blademaster with the amount of training he had shown to date in the show? I don't think you would.  Given that,  it was a good twist on what book readers might have expected.  Plus, it was funny as heck.

[Skipp]

  On 3/1/2025 at 1:37 AM, Turin Turambar said:

OK.  Would you have accepted Rand being able to defeat a true blademaster with the amount of training he had shown to date in the show? I don't think you would.  Given that,  it was a good twist on what book readers might have expected.  Plus, it was funny as heck.

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Agreed, it was a lovely twist and the showrunners certainly made sure it was a play on bookreaders.  I know my partner loved the moment.

 

I must admit the fight in the books never sat well with me.  Rand with a couple months sword training, admittedly with the best swordsman in the world, was able to beat a Swordmaster.  Even with the Flame and void and Lews Therim's memories/skills bleeding over it just seems like quite a leap to beat a Heron-marked blade in 1v1.  

 

The description of the fight though.... whoa, that is on another level.  Absolutely loved the imagery RJ was able to invoke with his choice of words during sword battles.

[expat]

  On 3/1/2025 at 1:01 AM, Mailman said:

That scene meant less than nothing in comparison to the books.

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Ha Ha Ha.  You, the master of hyperrealism for action sequences, are arguing that replacing a highly unrealistic fight scene with an appropriate scene of one power usage was bad. Notice the inconsistency?

 

At least you are maintaining your record of 100% negative comments on the show, even if you have to accept an argument you just spent about 20 posts trashing.

[DigificWriter]

Random thoughts fresh from rewatching Episode 2x08:

* I still love that Rand just ganks Turak and his soldiers using the One Power 

 

* I know that the visual design of the Horn of Valere caused consternation for some people, but I personally loved it

 

* Egwene getting to fulfill her promise and straight-up kill Renna still slaps as hard now as it did the first time I watched the episode

 

* I really hope Season 3 Episode 8 starts with a Cold Open that's set in the Age of Legends because it'd be a shame to break the pattern

 

* Mat and Uno being Heroes of the Horn was the perfect way to both delight book readers and subvert their expectations

 

* I'm the type of person who doesn't believe that every narrative beat has to be either explicitly spelled out or shown onscreen, so the fact that we didn't actually get confirmation of Ingtar being a Dark Friend or see him and Loial get the Horn has never bothered me 

 

* I like the less rigid way that the show has treated the second and third of the Three Oaths when it comes to hostile situations and/or battle postures, and never understood the logic behind trying hard to poke holes in Moiraine's assault on the Seanchan ships (which some people did once upon a time)

 

* Having Lanfear be afraid of Moggy was the perfect way to introduce the latter character

[Turin Turambar]

I think that I agree with all of this.

 

People thought Moraine broke the third oath in Falme? I could see 2 easy justifications for her actions. First, she and her warder were under attack by Seanchan with lethal intent. Just because Lan is awesome doesn't mean they weren't in danger.  Second, you could easily say she was only attacking the ships. So unless the Oath prevents AS from breaking targets in practice then I don't know.  One inanimate object is the same as any other. 

 

Certainly thin but AS make their bread slicing hairs.

[Mailman]

  On 3/1/2025 at 1:37 AM, Turin Turambar said:

OK.  Would you have accepted Rand being able to defeat a true blademaster with the amount of training he had shown to date in the show? I don't think you would.  Given that,  it was a good twist on what book readers might have expected.  Plus, it was funny as heck.

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  On 3/1/2025 at 2:16 AM, expat said:

Ha Ha Ha.  You, the master of hyperrealism for action sequences, are arguing that replacing a highly unrealistic fight scene with an appropriate scene of one power usage was bad. Notice the inconsistency?

 

At least you are maintaining your record of 100% negative comments on the show, even if you have to accept an argument you just spent about 20 posts trashing.

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The truly important battle in this scene is not actually the fight between swords it is Rands fight with himself. The risk to enter the void and the temptation of Saidan waiting within vs the risk of Egwene and the horn being taken is the true heart of this scene. This is all completely missing from the showthat is why it has no meaning apart from key jangling for book fans.

 

Do i think it likely that Rand could defeat a true blademaster probably not but we never get any indication of Turak's true ability do those in Seachan have different levels for a blademaster, do they use the void. I don't know we have people here arguing Rand got skills from the flicker stone do I know if thats true no, personally I doubt he got skilled up in that. Personally if i was leaning towards a skill or learning advantage i would go for a Lews angle. 

 

Even if you say the reworking to use the power in the show solved a potential issue in sword abilities the scene lacks any of the subtext that made the scene in the book fantastic.

 

Turak is not developed enough in the show either.

Edited March 3 by Mailman

[Mailman]

  On 3/1/2025 at 2:31 AM, Turin Turambar said:

I think that I agree with all of this.

 

People thought Moraine broke the third oath in Falme? I could see 2 easy justifications for her actions. First, she and her warder were under attack by Seanchan with lethal intent. Just because Lan is awesome doesn't mean they weren't in danger.  Second, you could easily say she was only attacking the ships. So unless the Oath prevents AS from breaking targets in practice then I don't know.  One inanimate object is the same as any other. 

 

Certainly thin but AS make their bread slicing hairs.

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I don't know about making the oath that vague could you then say I made the metal explode in the armour but that's armour not people or I used air to push them out the window, but it was gravity that killed them.

[Mailman]

  On 3/1/2025 at 2:16 AM, expat said:

 

 

At least you are maintaining your record of 100% negative comments on the show, even if you have to accept an argument you just spent about 20 posts trashing.

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What a load of rubbish you are comparing a sword fight where they actually fight back and forth with the underdog having been trained by the best swordsman in the world with no indication of the opponents true skill level. To a scene in which 13 of the most powerful Aes Sedai in the world tested and trialled to be resolute to remain calm in the face of unbelievable pressure stand around as useless as pieces of furniture.

 

The equivalent comparison is Turak standing shocked by Mat's dagger killing his guard till Rand walked up and stabbed him.

 

There is no arc so far in the show that is better than the books. The very best arc of the show so far was Egwene's time as Damane. As TV it was good, very very good performance from Madeleine and the arc was strong apart from her using the A'dam to kill. However the book arc for the same section is better. Some of this is having more than just 1 episode to develop it but i also think the decision to leave her stranded in the A'dam is if anything darker and colder than killing her and improves the closure.

Edited March 1 by Mailman

[Turin Turambar]

  On 3/1/2025 at 8:49 AM, Mailman said:

I don't know about making the oath that vague could you then say I made the metal explode in the armour but that's armour not people or I used air to push them out the window, but it was gravity that killed them.

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Aes Sedai speak no words untrue,  but they may not be the truth you hear. It would be totally an Aes Sedai thing to do. Backed into a corner by an invading army(Hawkwing). Forced to find a way to ease the fears of the public and the powerful leaders. I know, agree to swear oaths that don't exactly mean what they say due to the loopholes added in the "fine print". Everyone thinks your nerfed due to the Oaths but they leave loads of wiggle room.

Words are important. 

[Turin Turambar]

@Mailman, really? We don't know if Turak is really any good. That is a some Olympics level mental gymnastics to get Rand that W. 

[Mailman]

  On 3/1/2025 at 10:43 AM, Turin Turambar said:

Aes Sedai speak no words untrue,  but they may not be the truth you hear. It would be totally an Aes Sedai thing to do. Backed into a corner by an invading army(Hawkwing). Forced to find a way to ease the fears of the public and the powerful leaders. I know, agree to swear oaths that don't exactly mean what they say due to the loopholes added in the "fine print". Everyone thinks your nerfed due to the Oaths but they leave loads of wiggle room.

Words are important. 

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I get that but thats black and white. Trying to convince yourself that you are not killing someone when you push them out a window or causing a fiery serpent to crash down nearly on them is entirely something else.

[Mailman]

  On 3/1/2025 at 10:49 AM, Turin Turambar said:

@Mailman, really? We don't know if Turak is really any good. That is a some Olympics level mental gymnastics to get Rand that W. 

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I already said i find it unlikely that Rand after the training he had should be able to defeat a blademaster. I was simply saying we actually have zero indication of just how good a swordsman Turak is. The only point of reference is Rands POV. If for example they do not use the flame and the void as part of sword fighting in Seachan then I think he would have a good chance as it is an amazing advantage.

 

Turak is certainly arrogant enough to also overestimate himself remember he thinks the armed men in possession of the horn will simply hand it over without question or a fight.

 

And the fact that Rand is being beaten until he enters the void is maybe a slight possible indication that Turak does not use it.

Edited March 1 by Mailman

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

The possibility of a female Dragon actually makes a lot of sense. Obviously it would completely change the story if the Dragon was female, but the possibility would make the world even more waiting the second coming with trepidation. It would mean that wilders and rogue Aes Sedai could have been false Dragons, raising people's distrust of the White Tower. You would have people that disbelieved Rand was the Dragon as obviously it was going to be a woman. It would make Rand being the Dragon the worst possible outcome (as if the Dragon and the Last Battle weren't enough) as he would bring the breaking again that they could have otherwise missed. It would really play on the gender tensions that are a major theme in the books and the show "if only you were a girl". 

[Mailman]

  On 3/1/2025 at 11:16 AM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

The possibility of a female Dragon actually makes a lot of sense. Obviously it would completely change the story if the Dragon was female, but the possibility would make the world even more waiting the second coming with trepidation. It would mean that wilders and rogue Aes Sedai could have been false Dragons, raising people's distrust of the White Tower. You would have people that disbelieved Rand was the Dragon as obviously it was going to be a woman. It would make Rand being the Dragon the worst possible outcome (as if the Dragon and the Last Battle weren't enough) as he would bring the breaking again that they could have otherwise missed. It would really play on the gender tensions that are a major theme in the books and the show "if only you were a girl". 

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Possibly it could have done those things I just don't think they ever had the time to develop it.

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

  On 3/1/2025 at 11:23 AM, Mailman said:

Possibly it could have done those things I just don't think they ever had the time to develop it.

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Oh, definitely not. But I just mean that just the possibility of the Dragon being female doesn't break the lore. Only the Dragon being female would fundamentally change it. 

[DigificWriter]

I left this out of my earlier comments about Episode2x08 because I was pressed for time, so I'm bringing it up now:

I really don't think they're gong to resurrect Ishy despite how good Fares Fares was in the role and even if his resurrected identity had parts to play in the story later on in the books.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Oh he is so good.

 

Is he dead, dead?

 

Cos Turin says he's in the posters still.

 

Or are we saying he might proper die in season 3?

[DigificWriter]

I guess Ishy is in one of the S3 posters.

 

That puts the kibosh on my theory about him being dead for good, although that fact does make me a little bit sad.

Edited March 1 by DigificWriter

[Ithillian Turambar]

In an̈ interview with the Radio Times, Rosamund Pike said...

 

"We haven't neglected the Stone of Tear, we've just rearranged the order. There'll be debate about it, but instead of Rand, as you would expect, his next point on his journey would be to go and get Callandor from the Stone of Tear, we are going into the Aiel Waste first, because he needs to discover who he is. Obviously in the novels, there's loads of opportunity for the internal battles of Rand, coming to terms with being the Dragon Reborn - but we need to make that active. We can't do subjective thinking on film. So we need him to go and discover who he is by going to the land of where he comes from. So we're going to the Aiel Waste first and I hope you'll understand and appreciate why."

 

 

Soooo, maybe the Stone of Tear is where Ishy will get his, with Callendor