Why not follow the books more closely?

[henrywho]

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

My answer: because they are trying to make a successful television show and feel that the changes serve that end. 

Well best way to achieve that would have been to edit and script the books and stick more closely to them.

 

[Elder_Haman]

2 minutes ago, henrywho said:

Well best way to achieve that would have been to edit and script the books and stick more closely to them.

 

Obviously the writers and producers disagree. Looks like we are at an impasse. 

[henrywho]

12 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Well it makes no difference. Your original formulation is also incorrect. 

In a darkened computer room in the corner of his house with the chill of the morning air upon his face Henry Who could be heard snickering quietly to himself. Gathering himself he departs his abode for a day of labour outside.

Edited April 10 by henrywho
typo

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, henrywho said:

In a darkened computer room in the corner of his house with the chill of the morning air upon his face Henry Who could be heard snickering quietly to himself. Gathering himself he departs his abode for a day labour outside.

Enjoy. I’ll await your explanation about how The Wheel of Time is all about how good will inevitably prevail if people are just true to themselves. 

[henrywho]

6 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Enjoy. I’ll await your explanation about how The Wheel of Time is all about how good will inevitably prevail if people are just true to themselves. 

Wow I never said that either. I made 2 statements, that is two separate statements.

TWoT suggests, implies, puts forth the idea, has as one of it's underlying focuses that;

1: People are better off if they are true to themselves.

2: That good will always wins over evil, no matter how long it takes.

Why is this so hard to understand.

Edited April 11 by henrywho
typo

[henrywho]

Just finished listening to The Shadow Rising - Book 4 of TWoT.

These books are SO! good. Starting in on The Fires of Heaven immediately.

I listened to all 14 books last year for the first time. I'm very sure this will become an annual event for me.

 

[Figs and Mice]

It appears that one good thing the TV show has done is to get Henrywho into enjoying the books...even if he doesn't like what the TV people have done to them 😎

 

I do agree with many on here that a number of rather unnecessary changes have been made. End of the day , the TV writers will have to own that for better or worse.  Confess I am a little puzzled as to why some of those changes have been made ; and wonder whether the knock on effects ca be satisfactorily handled : guess we will see in time.

 

TV versions of novels often need to be "adapted". A comparison I would make with Apple's effort with Isaac Asimov's "Foundation" series of novels , currently two seasons in. Now I first read the novels decades ago and always realised the challenges facing a TV version : (1) Too much of the "action" takes place off page and is only conveyed by conversations between characters ; (2) the story spans centuries so any actors would only be around for half a dozen episodes or so ; and (3) much of the narrative is a bit on the "dull" side  - bit like a very broad historical lesson.

 

The TV show has managed it rather well so far - though upsetting some book fans in the process. The characters retain essentially nothing but their names (in some cases swapping gender and background) ; but still manage to achieve similar results for the main storyline as their book counterparts. And several lead characters are being kept alive throughout by some nifty use of suspended animation periods , cloning  , or somehow downloading consciousness into some sort of quite solid holograms ... ok it doesn't really make sense if you look too closely but it does enable the viewer to invest in the characters and humanize what would otherwise be a rather sterile "grand galactic saga"...  I was a bit taken aback at first but I have come to appreciate what they are doing and hope they can nail the rest of the story when the next couple of seasons land.  It is certainly different from the books ; but still carries very much the same overall theme : so I am happy to call it a true and basically faithful adaptation.

 

(Sorry for the long ramble )  But I only raise this to compare with WOT because I do feel some of the changes wrought in this show are not really made because Jordan's original version won't work on screen , so much as the TV runners' desire to tell "their" story - which I think is primarily what has annoyed those on here who are sounding off most vigorously on this thread 🙂

 

So yes I guess I am in the camp of those who deplore many of the "variations" that Samt listed a couple of pages back. I too wish they were a bit more faithful to the original : but on the other hand I will still give them a tick if they can land the final product over the next few years. Will wait , watch and hope...

[Kaleb]

17 hours ago, Samt said:

So how do you credibly judge that it's still Wheel of Time if basically anything could change and you wouldn't say that it was no longer Wheel of Time?

Like @Elder_Haman said, it depends on what actually changes. Given my judgement that the first two seasons are still clearly the story of WoT made by a production team that deeply understands the world and the story and the characters, there are many ways to get there. 

 

Asking for a list of must-include events seems like a "gotcha" kind of request, as if the show must progress through a checklist of scenes from the books to still be the same story. Instead, I am looking for the characters and the relationships between them to reflect their development as in the books, and that could be done in any number of ways. Of course, those characters need to inhabit the distinctive world of WoT, with the One Power, the Prophecies of the Dragon, the many different cultures and factions, the history from the Age Of Legends onward, the Forsaken and the Dark One, and of course the reincarnation of souls and weaving of the pattern through the Wheel Of Time itself. I love what the show has done in bringing forward the quasi-religious elements about the universally-shared faith in that metaphysical concept, from the Bel Tine lanterns to the Forsaken totems and shrines. We can see more clearly what it would feel like to live in that world, there's so much non-verbal worldbuilding that's essential to making the Wheel itself a presence the way it is in the books.

 

So, is Rand a reluctant rural boy thrust unwillingly into his destiny as the Dragon Reborn? Yep. Are the EF5 exhibiting the same powers/abilities/motivations/flaws? Absolutely. Are other major characters playing similar roles? From Moiraine & Lan to Thom Merrilin and Min, they are showing up where they need to be, and even deepening their roles in some cases. Would I like to see a closer match to what they do in the books? Yes (more Thom!) and No (show Ishamael and Lanfear are amazing, and show Lan is seen as more fully human the way that Nynaeve and Moiraine see him - I wouldn't trade that for Rand and the boys' awe-filled perspective in the early books). I'm honestly impressed that the show writers have gotten as many characters into the story as they have, Jordan loved expanding his world by bringing in characters that we get to know well briefly and then they disappeared, forever or for several books.

[Kaleb]

6 hours ago, Figs and Mice said:

It appears that one good thing the TV show has done is to get Henrywho into enjoying the books...even if he doesn't like what the TV people have done to them 😎

Agreed, I said the same thing! 

 

I have no problem with people not enjoying the show, or any show! No one even needs to justify it, I don't like a lot of things myself. I've been posting in regards to the specific complaint made by WoT readers in this WoT forum that the show has deviated so much from the books that it "shouldn't even be called The Wheel Of Time." I do feel that is unwarranted and unjustified and in this very limited context in this very limited audience, I will continue to argue against it. My opinion is that this show is a strong adaptation of the story we all love, working within very challenging production constraints.

 

Nobody else needs to agree that it's good, or that the different ways the characters, themes, events and world are presented in the show are interesting or the best that could be done in an adaptation. I think they are mostly interesting, but I doubt they're the best and I would love to read more discussion about different ways to accomplish the same specific storytelling goals. As this thread demonstrates though, "follow the books more closely" isn't a satisfying answer once you really grapple with the production constraints. Now that we've got two seasons of material to work with, I'm thinking about how they will get to so many of the things we know need to happen from The Shadow Rising, and I'm super excited to be surprised by all of it.

[Jaccsen]

1 hour ago, Kaleb said:

My opinion is that this show is a strong adaptation of the story we all love, working within very challenging production constraints.

What constraints forced them to write entire episodes that never happened in the books? I could understand if there were budget issues that forced them to cut content but they also added a lot of content at the expense of better written scenes and material from the books.

 

I think they like to use excuses like budget to number of episodes to distract from poor writing or a desire to tell their version of events.

[Kaleb]

6 minutes ago, Jaccsen said:

What constraints forced them to write entire episodes that never happened in the books? I could understand if there were budget issues that forced them to cut content but they also added a lot of content at the expense of better written scenes and material from the books.

It depends on specifics of what you mean. The Rand and Mat scenes in S1E3/4 never happened in the books, but they are a consolidation of many scenes in their TEOTW journey from Whitebridge to Caemlyn. I think those were great show scenes that effectively showed their character development and the overall worldbuilding in that section of the book.

Edited April 11 by Kaleb

[Samt]

1 hour ago, Kaleb said:

Like @Elder_Haman said, it depends on what actually changes. Given my judgement that the first two seasons are still clearly the story of WoT made by a production team that deeply understands the world and the story and the characters, there are many ways to get there. 

 

Asking for a list of must-include events seems like a "gotcha" kind of request, as if the show must progress through a checklist of scenes from the books to still be the same story. Instead, I am looking for the characters and the relationships between them to reflect their development as in the books, and that could be done in any number of ways. Of course, those characters need to inhabit the distinctive world of WoT, with the One Power, the Prophecies of the Dragon, the many different cultures and factions, the history from the Age Of Legends onward, the Forsaken and the Dark One, and of course the reincarnation of souls and weaving of the pattern through the Wheel Of Time itself. I love what the show has done in bringing forward the quasi-religious elements about the universally-shared faith in that metaphysical concept, from the Bel Tine lanterns to the Forsaken totems and shrines. We can see more clearly what it would feel like to live in that world, there's so much non-verbal worldbuilding that's essential to making the Wheel itself a presence the way it is in the books.

 

So, is Rand a reluctant rural boy thrust unwillingly into his destiny as the Dragon Reborn? Yep. Are the EF5 exhibiting the same powers/abilities/motivations/flaws? Absolutely. Are other major characters playing similar roles? From Moiraine & Lan to Thom Merrilin and Min, they are showing up where they need to be, and even deepening their roles in some cases. Would I like to see a closer match to what they do in the books? Yes (more Thom!) and No (show Ishamael and Lanfear are amazing, and show Lan is seen as more fully human the way that Nynaeve and Moiraine see him - I wouldn't trade that for Rand and the boys' awe-filled perspective in the early books). I'm honestly impressed that the show writers have gotten as many characters into the story as they have, Jordan loved expanding his world by bringing in characters that we get to know well briefly and then they disappeared, forever or for several books.

Another criticism of the show (or perhaps a different way of expressing essentially the same criticism) is that it feels like WoT fan fiction.  Fan fiction, generally speaking, is set in nominally the same universe and lore and uses most of the same characters who are intended to 'feel' the same.  The thing that sets fan fiction apart from the original story is the plot points and events that make up the story.  When you say you are looking for characters, relationships, and a distinctive WoT world, (but not necessarily any specific scenes or events) that seems to be an acknowledgement that you are okay with the show being fan fiction.

 

Of course, I feel like a lot of the characters in the show are very different from the characters of the books, but that is somewhat subjective.  By asking for concrete events and plots points that you feel are core to the story, I am looking for an objective standard by which we can judge if they have fundamentally changed the story.  Yes, in a way that is a "gotcha" question and I wasn't really trying to hide that.  I can provide my own list of events that I think are critical (some of them are already cut).  But until there is agreement as to what it means for the story to be Wheel of Time, we'll just be talking past each other.  Your refusal to answer the question is itself an answer.  You're essentially saying that you'd be happy to watch WoT fan fiction.  

 

Also: Min?  You really think that Min is not fundamentally changed as a character?  You think book Min would make a deal with Ishamael?

[Kaleb]

There are still Tolkien fans who consider Peter Jackson's adaptation to be "fan fiction." I generally think the distinction is meaningless, and that "fan fiction" is a pejorative term used by fundamentalists when it's applied to authorized and licensed adaptations. But yes, I would be happy to have any highly visible visual media version of The Wheel Of Time that engages new and existing fans with this very rich world of Robert Jordan's creation. Guilty! Of something important, I'm sure. Not being a devoted enough steward of the realm to receive virtual pats on the back from fellow keepers of the truth? 

 

I was going to delete my sarcastic comments at the end of the last paragraph, but I rethought that because it's really a fundamental difference in perspectives on any topic in any culture. My view is that stories/ideas/cultures are generally more healthy the more perspectives they engage. New versions and new methods lead to new creations, and one important way to measure how great a thing is is to trace all the creative branches that it generated. An opposing view that you seem to subscribe to would be more of a purist vision, that a creation stands alone and should be studied and analyzed to ascertain the depth of its meaning without diluting the existing work. Adaptation itself is suspect and judged by rigid standards which will result in disavowal if not met. So, to the extent my characterizations are accurate, we may indeed be talking past each other and using entirely different ideas of quality.

 

RE: Min -- Min in the show is different in that respect from Min in the book. Her relationship to her viewings is just kind of a thing she does in the books, she doesn't say much more than that it brings her a lot of sadness when she sees terrible things in the future and knows nothing can stop them. Book Min doesn't appear to have an issue beyond that and she seems kind of proud of her ability, so she certainly wouldn't be receptive to anyone offering to take it away. Whereas in the show, her aunts tried to exploit this talent for money, which amounted to severe emotional abuse. It is a very different backstory, but it makes it absolutely believable that show Min would listen to someone who told her they could take it away, and then be strung along to a point where she realizes she's dealing with the literal devil and faces a huge challenge in trying to break away from that trap. Like I said before, you're right that it's different, but I don't see how it breaks her character's arc from the books. It certainly makes her rise to main character status more compelling for TV than the sexy psychic sidekick she is in the books.

 

[Kaleb]

21 hours ago, henrywho said:

What are these "official cannon" versions of TWoT you refer to.

The canon of a work of fiction is "the body of works taking place in a particular fictional world that are widely considered to be official or authoritative; [especially] those created by the original author or developer of the world"

 

I used the examples of Harry Potter, LOTR and the Gospels.

Gospels - 4 canon versions (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John), dozens more unofficial and unauthorized by the Church. There's an argument to be made that at least some of the translations result in additional variations of the 4 canon versions themselves.

LOTR - Tolkien's books are canon, and Peter Jackson's trilogy is an officially authorized version that is often referred to as "film canon"

Harry Potter - same as Tolkien, Rowling's books are canon, then there is the "film canon" based on the movies.

 

As in LOTR and HP, WoT now has its own "film/tv canon" that is officially authorized. That's all I'm saying, and that I'm happy all these versions exist because they provide concrete contrasts to enrich discussion of the characters, events and themes in these stories.

[Samt]

33 minutes ago, Kaleb said:

There are still Tolkien fans who consider Peter Jackson's adaptation to be "fan fiction." I generally think the distinction is meaningless, and that "fan fiction" is a pejorative term used by fundamentalists when it's applied to authorized and licensed adaptations. But yes, I would be happy to have any highly visible visual media version of The Wheel Of Time that engages new and existing fans with this very rich world of Robert Jordan's creation. Guilty! Of something important, I'm sure. Not being a devoted enough steward of the realm to receive virtual pats on the back from fellow keepers of the truth? 

 

I was going to delete my sarcastic comments at the end of the last paragraph, but I rethought that because it's really a fundamental difference in perspectives on any topic in any culture. My view is that stories/ideas/cultures are generally more healthy the more perspectives they engage. New versions and new methods lead to new creations, and one important way to measure how great a thing is is to trace all the creative branches that it generated. An opposing view that you seem to subscribe to would be more of a purist vision, that a creation stands alone and should be studied and analyzed to ascertain the depth of its meaning without diluting the existing work. Adaptation itself is suspect and judged by rigid standards which will result in disavowal if not met. So, to the extent my characterizations are accurate, we may indeed be talking past each other and using entirely different ideas of quality.

 

RE: Min -- Min in the show is different in that respect from Min in the book. Her relationship to her viewings is just kind of a thing she does in the books, she doesn't say much more than that it brings her a lot of sadness when she sees terrible things in the future and knows nothing can stop them. Book Min doesn't appear to have an issue beyond that and she seems kind of proud of her ability, so she certainly wouldn't be receptive to anyone offering to take it away. Whereas in the show, her aunts tried to exploit this talent for money, which amounted to severe emotional abuse. It is a very different backstory, but it makes it absolutely believable that show Min would listen to someone who told her they could take it away, and then be strung along to a point where she realizes she's dealing with the literal devil and faces a huge challenge in trying to break away from that trap. Like I said before, you're right that it's different, but I don't see how it breaks her character's arc from the books. It certainly makes her rise to main character status more compelling for TV than the sexy psychic sidekick she is in the books.

 

Yeah, "fan fiction" can be used as a simple pejorative, but I gave a specific explanation of how I was using it.  Fan fiction as I am using it specifically means that the setting and characters are largely preserved but the events of the story are novel.   If you don't like the term "fan fiction" all I'm saying is I think there is a difference between "The Wheel of Time" and a story set in the WoT universe.  The Amazon series tends to lean more towards being the second.

 

I get the idea of increasing the reach of the series and how the show has been good overall in doing that.  But that is ignoring the central question of this thread and the complaint that is being brought.  The show could have been much more faithful to the books.  While some changes were necessary, this isn't just a case of budget, or screentime, or needing to be able to make the story make sense while telling it in a different format.  It's clear that the showrunners made lots of changes for their own artistic reasons.  

 

This isn't really about engaging different perspectives.  The original Wheel of Time story from the books isn't engaging any new perspectives because it isn't contained in the show.  Lest that seem like an overstatement, consider that you have literally said that absolutely no part of the story is a mandatory inclusion in a Wheel of Time adaptation.  There is no core.  That is my point.  We can't have an actual discussion about the Wheel of Time story if the Wheel of Time story could literally be anything involving a guy named Rand.  

 

Re: Min.  So basically you admit that Min is completely different but it's okay because it's interesting.  I mean, even her powers seem to work differently in the show.  

 

Even if the showrunners have a plan, it's clear that they can't consistently execute on that.  Rafe has admitted that he had a plan for Ingtar and that it didn't come together.  I assume that something was intended for Turak.  The producers claimed that season 2E8 would contain one of the biggest battles ever on screen.  Only the inherent ambiguity in the phrase "one of" keeps that from being a bold-faced lie although it is still hilarious.  These people are so far out of their depth that it would be comical if I didn't care about the result.  Who watched S2E8 and thought that was one of the biggest battles ever on screen?  Who watched S1E8 and didn't realize that reviving Nynaeve raised problems? It would have been a small thing to fix by simply showing that Nynaeve wasn't dead yet when Egwene healed her.  But they simply lacked the vision, judgment, and skill of execution to fix it.  

 

[Kaleb]

14 minutes ago, Samt said:

Lest that seem like an overstatement, consider that you have literally said that absolutely no part of the story is a mandatory inclusion in a Wheel of Time adaptation.  There is no core.  That is my point.  We can't have an actual discussion about the Wheel of Time story if the Wheel of Time story could literally be anything involving a guy named Rand. 

I didn't say that though.

 

I said "Instead, I am looking for the characters and the relationships between them to reflect their development as in the books, and that could be done in any number of ways." And then I went through elements of the world that are key as well as a checklist of the main characters that are among those whose development must reflect what happened in the books. And despite some changes, I do see that overall development happening in the show according to many events that are either exactly from the books or clear analogs for and composites of the book events.

Edited April 11 by Kaleb

[Samt]

9 minutes ago, Kaleb said:

I didn't say that though.

 

I said "Instead, I am looking for the characters and the relationships between them to reflect their development as in the books, and that could be done in any number of ways." And then I went through elements of the world that are key as well as a checklist of the main characters that are among those whose development must reflect what happened in the books. And despite some changes, I do see that overall development happening in the show according to many events that are either exactly from the books or clear analogs for and composites of the book events.

True.  Technically you said that some parts of the story are mandatory but you won't describe exactly which ones lest you be held to your answer at a later date through this "gotcha" question.  Also relationships and development in a wishy washy enough way that it has no real concrete meaning.  

 

I mean, your checklist of key characters that need to have the same development includes Min.  Who is completely different in the show.  How is that a meaningful list at all?

Edited April 11 by Samt

[henrywho]

4 hours ago, Jaccsen said:

What constraints forced them to write entire episodes that never happened in the books? I could understand if there were budget issues that forced them to cut content but they also added a lot of content at the expense of better written scenes and material from the books.

 

I think they like to use excuses like budget to number of episodes to distract from poor writing or a desire to tell their version of events.

Could not agree more. Someone here said that they didn't expect to see the battle in the sky. Why not? GoT had dragons fighting while flying, infinitely more complex then the comparatively simple fight in TWoT.

I do not say I was "looking forward" to that fight scene I'm just saying there is no production reason why it should not have been there. There is however "show" reasons. The sky battle in the books reveals Rand's face to the entire city and his image is spread across the world, to the point where Liandrin has a painting of the scene, clearly identifying Rand, hanging on the wall in her "office" once she deposes Siuan Sanche.

So clearly Rand's infamy and face is not going to be public knowledge for some time in the show.

 

I am shocked and confused that anyone can believe the first two seasons are a strong adaptation of the books. We will have to agree to disagree on the point that I believe the show is not and in fact far from it.

 

The show may well end up having a similar ending to the book, don't hold your breath on that though, but as most people would agree when you are on a trip some of the best parts is the journey, the eventual destination can wind up being secondary. As any reading here will know I don't think much of the show's journey and also I don't believe it will improve, there have been too many changes for it to sanely get back on track or even resemble the books.

 

[henrywho]

12 hours ago, Figs and Mice said:

It appears that one good thing the TV show has done is to get Henrywho into enjoying the books...

 

No, a workmates wife got me into the books and I enjoy the books because of the books. I had never been much of a fan of fantasy until I listened to  TWoT audio books Narrated by: Kate Reading, Michael Kramer

Now I have a swag of them.

The Lot Lands trilogy by Jonathan French

Traitor Spy Trilogy by Trudy Canavan

Obernewtyn by Isobelle Carmody ( narrated by the author )

to name three. I can recommend these three as an excellent read / listen. Obernewtyn by Isobelle Carmody was recommended to me by the same woman who got me onto TWoT.

[henrywho]

3 hours ago, Kaleb said:

RE: Min -- Min in the show is different in that respect from Min in the book. Her relationship to her viewings is just kind of a thing she does in the books, she doesn't say much more than that it brings her a lot of sadness when she sees terrible things in the future and knows nothing can stop them. Book Min doesn't appear to have an issue beyond that and she seems kind of proud of her ability, so she certainly wouldn't be receptive to anyone offering to take it away.

 

No. Book Min often wishes she did not have  her ability and does not  enjoy having it. She is a very strong character. Book Min is a tomboy and loves being one. She dislikes the fact that men and women  consider her pretty and is shocked when she discovers she is in love with Rand. She uses her "beauty" to hide in the white tower by donning makeup, dresses and a demure attitude, despising the changes, and becomes almost unrecognisable compared to her true persona. Min rescues Siuan Sanche and her keeper of the chronicles from imprisonment in the tower and much more. It's painfully clear that Min's white tower scenes, if any, will be scripted completely differently in the show.

[Elder_Haman]

39 minutes ago, henrywho said:

Someone here said that they didn't expect to see the battle in the sky. Why not? GoT had dragons fighting while flying, infinitely more complex then the comparatively simple fight in TWoT.

Because the "battle in the sky" part of tGH was kind of cheesy. It's the same reason I always expected them to get rid of the Green Man and change the ending of EotW.

 

41 minutes ago, henrywho said:

The sky battle in the books reveals Rand's face to the entire city and his image is spread across the world, to the point where Liandrin has a painting of the scene, clearly identifying Rand, hanging on the wall in her "office" once she deposes Siuan Sanche.

So clearly Rand's infamy and face is not going to be public knowledge for some time in the show.

 

Why? His presence was known in the city. They don't just teleport away. Someone can very easily get a likeness of Rand together from the information available to them.

 

42 minutes ago, henrywho said:

I am shocked and confused that anyone can believe the first two seasons are a strong adaptation of the books. We will have to agree to disagree on the point that I believe the show is not and in fact far from it.

Be shocked and amazed then. I quite like the show. It has its problems, but I believe that it is a worthwhile adaptation. More importantly, I can still read the books. The show does not diminish my experience of the books.

 

44 minutes ago, henrywho said:

As any reading here will know I don't think much of the show's journey and also I don't believe it will improve, there have been too many changes for it to sanely get back on track or even resemble the books.

Great! We know your opinion! You strongly believe the show is bad. Anything else to add?

[henrywho]

3 hours ago, Kaleb said:

The canon of a work of fiction is "the body of works taking place in a particular fictional world that are widely considered to be official or authoritative; [especially] those created by the original author or developer of the world"

 

I used the examples of Harry Potter, LOTR and the Gospels.

Gospels - 4 canon versions (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John), dozens more unofficial and unauthorized by the Church. There's an argument to be made that at least some of the translations result in additional variations of the 4 canon versions themselves.

LOTR - Tolkien's books are canon, and Peter Jackson's trilogy is an officially authorized version that is often referred to as "film canon"

Harry Potter - same as Tolkien, Rowling's books are canon, then there is the "film canon" based on the movies.

 

As in LOTR and HP, WoT now has its own "film/tv canon" that is officially authorized. That's all I'm saying, and that I'm happy all these versions exist because they provide concrete contrasts to enrich discussion of the characters, events and themes in these stories.

TWoT's author has passed away well before the series. Who makes this show official? His wife and the man she got to finish the books are hardly official. I do not believe for a single second Robert Jordan would approve of the changes made in this TV series. I believe he would receive it as a very hard slap in the face!

 

I will say I thought Brandon Sanderson did a fine job of finishing TWoT. A very difficult task to do well for any author.

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, henrywho said:

His wife and the man she got to finish the books are hardly official.

You mean his wife and long time editor, Harriet? The one who edited the entire series? She supports the show, as does Brandon Sanderson. 
 

It is comical to me that book purists who never met the man just KNOW that he would be “insulted” by the show when the woman who knew him best seems not to share that opinion. 

[henrywho]

18 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

You mean his wife and long time editor, Harriet? The one who edited the entire series? She supports the show, as does Brandon Sanderson. 
 

It is comical to me that book purists who never met the man just KNOW that he would be “insulted” by the show when the woman who knew him best seems not to share that opinion. 

Yes I know his wife was his editor. None of us know anything about the motivations of Harriet or Brandon, nothing at all. As someone with more than 6 books stuck in his head and trying to get them out onto a computer I know first hand the time and effort required to write. ( I have more pages of people and place names, maps, character arcs and the like than I have of actual story). For Robert Jordan to have written TWoT and for it to be widely appreciated in it's original form is an Epic achievement. To see that effort mostly discarded has to be heart breaking to any author.

 

Needless to say if I ever finish (life just keeps getting in the way) any of my books they will almost certainly never been made in to a series or movies while I'm alive as the restrictions I would place on alterations would almost never be agreed to. Assuming that they would even be good enough to warrant it or even be published.

Edited April 11 by henrywho
more

[henrywho]

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

Be shocked and amazed then.

I'm that too. But not for the same reasons you might be.