Why not follow the books more closely?

[fearbrog]

3 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I'm still trying to understand exactly which aspects of the books were "shattered" or "completely destroyed". I understand that some of the changes to particular backstories change characters in ways people could find unlikable. But I see no changes that "break" or "shatter" or "obliterate" the books. 

 

 

 

Mostly Rand. He has no human connections he had in books, no Lan, no Thom, no Loyal, no Hurin, no Ingtar. All he does is have sex with Egwene and Lanfear, he doesn't explore, doesn't wander in castle, has no sword.  He literally fails to villain scheme in season 1 finale in stark contrast to Egg who saves a day. He doesn't lead fight at Falme, he doesn't sacrifice himself and got stabbed by his "friend", after being humiliated by Siuan.

 

He doesn't even proclaim himself as Dragon, Moiraine does. It looked more like he's false dragon.

 

While Rand is example of narrative breaks in story to elevate other characters, Egwene is example of breaks in metaphysics to elevate HER. Not only show change how circle to let Egg be a healer for no reason, in two seasons Rafe let his favourite character do 2 feats impossible in the book, heal death and free herself from a'dam by herself, didn't even need help of Dark One, unlike loser Rand.

Edited April 8 by fearbrog

[Elder_Haman]

8 minutes ago, fearbrog said:

Mostly Rand. He has no human connections he had in books, no Lan, no Thom, no Loyal, no Hurin, no Ingtar. All he does is have sex with Egwene and Lanfear, he doesn't explore, doesn't wander in castle, has no sword.  He literally fails to villain scheme in season 1 finale in stark contrast to Egg who saves a day. He doesn't lead fight at Falme, he doesn't sacrifice himself and got stabbed by his "friend", after being humiliated by Siuan.

I don't see this as quite the dire situation that you do. He has human connections in the show - we know Mat, Egwene and Perrin are all important to him. We know Moiraine is important.

 

He didn't "fall victim" to Ishy's scheme in Season 1, he won the necessary battle by refusing Ishy's offer of his version of paradise (doing so precisely because of one of those human connections). 

 

They have greatly slowed Rand's growth in the show (avoiding the problem where he completely disappears for most of an entire book). But emotionally, he is right where he should be at this point. Unsure of himself, unsure of his powers, distrustful of everyone around him (for some reasons which are legitimate and others which are not). He has yet to embrace himself as the Dragon, but is beginning to realize that he can't hide from his destiny.

 

In the books, he decides to take Callandor to prove the prophecies true or false and in so doing, he comes to truly accept himself as the Dragon. We have yet to see how the show will handle this. One of the reasons I'm so excited for Season 3!!

[henrywho]

My problem with the casting.

Rand: Just wrong for the character

Egwene: Physically not there and not right for the character.

Loial: Supposed to be over 2 metres tall aside from that the actor is going a great job.

Lan: His height is almost right but his build is not. Intimidation score 2 out of 10.

Moiraine: Fine actor as Rosamond Pike is she is simply too tall. Moiraine is tiny in the books and it's an important characteristic as it eliminates physical presence from her ability to manipulate people and leaves it entirely with her personality, her strong will.

Perrin: Can't be discussed as he is not the character from the books anyway.

Mat: hard to discuss as they have made him overly greasy both in appearance and character and they turned him into a theif. On top of that the season one actor has been replaced in season 2.

    A side note on the Cauthon's. In the books Mat's dad is a respected community member, not a cheating lech. Mat's sisters are older in the books. Any drinking problem his mum may have is never mentioned in the books.

Min: So physically wrong it hurts to try and think of the actress as that character. Dubious acting ability, although it could be a result of the poor scripts.

 Aviendha: Physically wrong especially height.

Thom: Hard to say, my real issue I suspect is the costuming and make up, where is his moustache!

 

I must get back to my own writing and cleaning the house and finish mowing the lawn, again !

[henrywho]

2 hours ago, Kaleb said:

 we're not just theorizing on fan forums, there's now actually an official alternate canon that can be engaged with on its own and in relation to the original!

 

Sorry I have no idea what you are saying here.

[fearbrog]

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

I don't see this as quite the dire situation that you do. He has human connections in the show - we know Mat, Egwene and Perrin are all important to him. We know Moiraine is important.

Because Egwene and Moiraine main characters, and Mat and Perrin are parts of WhoisDragon thing, once resolved Rand is isolated. There are no close characters to teach or change perspectives in Rand storyline. Instead of lessons in leadership from Hurin, or duty and sacrifice from Ingtar and Lan, or history and humanity from Thom we get Lanfear and sex.

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

In the books, he decides to take Callandor to prove the prophecies true or false and in so doing, he comes to truly accept himself as the Dragon. We have yet to see how the show will handle this. One of the reasons I'm so excited for Season 3!!

I remember after Tarwin's Gap people said how it wasn't that important and we gonna see Rand shine in Falme, we need to wait and be exited for Season 2. After s2e8 people said it was unrealistic to expect battle in Sky and it would be not good on TV, so we need to wait and be exited for Season 3. Now you saying he's not really a Dragon yet, despite Moiraine proclaim him, so if s3 wont show Callandor or it will be obtained by, let's say Moiraine, will you say to wait for Season 4?

 

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

But emotionally, he is right where he should be at this point. Unsure of himself, unsure of his powers, distrustful of everyone around him

He's never been a leader, never sacrificed himself, trusts Lanfear so much they lovers, didn't stand to power (Amerlin). I think this is more important and emotional bits.

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

They have greatly slowed Rand's growth in the show (avoiding the problem where he completely disappears for most of an entire book).

Funny how Rand needs to be nerfed, but certain character already best healer in both book and show canon, capable to be first to break from literally unbreakable from inside ancient artifact and stall Forsaken

[henrywho]

16 hours ago, Kaleb said:

The entire premise of Robert Jordan's The Wheel Of Time - reiterated at the beginning of Chapter One in every book - is that all stories are confused retellings of misunderstood experiences.

 

A flat NO!

"The wheel of time turns and ages come and pass leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth and even myth is long forgotten when the age that gave it birth comes again. In one age called the 3rd age by some. An age yet to come an age long past."

indicating that in this universe everything repeats. How many times has the dragon been reborn ? Each time succumbing to the dark, until this time. It clearly states that the stories are forgotten.

At no stage is it suggested that all stories are confused retellings. Even if that's true it's not suggested in these books and is most certainly not the premise.

The actual premise is little different to a lot of stories. Be true to who you really are and good always defeats evil eventually.

Edited April 9 by henrywho
typo's

[Jaccsen]

2 hours ago, henrywho said:

A flat NO!

"The wheel of time turns and ages come and pass leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth and even myth is long forgotten when the age that gave it birth comes again. In one age called the 3rd age by some. An age yet to come an age long past."

indicating that in this universe everything repeats. How many times has the dragon been reborn ? Each time succumbing to the dark, until this time. It clearly states that the stories are forgotten.

At no stage is it suggested that all stories are confused retellings. Even if that's true it's not suggested in these books and is most certainly not the premise.

The actual premise is little different to a lot of stories. Be true to who you really are and good always defeats evil eventually.

 

Agreed. The Wheel of Time is cyclical. There is always some type of Age of Legends and someone always seeks too deeply and recreates the Bore. It is never the same story. Perrin and Rand are not tied to the Wheel. Their souls were weaved into the third age and they may have become Ta'Veren specifically because of their close bond to Rand.. They may have earned a place among the heroes and it is clearly shown that has happened in the past but the events unfold differently in each age because the Creator does allow for free will.

[Elder_Haman]

17 hours ago, fearbrog said:

I remember after Tarwin's Gap people said how it wasn't that important and we gonna see Rand shine in Falme, we need to wait and be exited for Season 2. After s2e8 people said it was unrealistic to expect battle in Sky and it would be not good on TV, so we need to wait and be exited for Season 3. Now you saying he's not really a Dragon yet, despite Moiraine proclaim him, so if s3 wont show Callandor or it will be obtained by, let's say Moiraine, will you say to wait for Season 4?

I don’t really put much stock into “people said”, so I’ll just recap my own thoughts and feelings:

 

(1) S1E8 was bad. (Less so on the 2nd and 3rd watches, but still bad.) I decided to overlook its flaws because of the challenges presented by COVID and the departure of Barney Harris. 
 

(2) I never thought there would be a battle in the sky and was unconcerned about it from the beginning. In fact, I was a little surprised they kept Falme at all. I expected them to ditch it altogether or combine it with the attack on the Stone. 
 

(3) I really liked S2. I enjoyed the changes and the characters and felt the writing was much improved. 
 

(4) I mostly liked S2E8. Egwene getting free of the collar wasn’t great (I wish they would have let Elayne and Nyn participate), and I thought some of it was a but cheesy, but overall I felt it was a solid episode. 
 

(5) I’m not worried at all about Rand’s development. They slowed some stuff down. But I’m confident that we will get to see him doing more training, having

more interactions with Mat and Moiraine and Lan in S3. 

17 hours ago, fearbrog said:

Funny how Rand needs to be nerfed, but certain character already best healer in both book and show canon, capable to be first to break from literally unbreakable from inside ancient artifact and stall Forsaken

I assume you’re referring to Egwene. But you get so much wrong here. Egwene is not the best healer in the books or the show: that honor falls to Nyn. 
 

She didn’t really stall Ishy at all. She was his cat’s paw. Ishy used her to give the illusion that he was trying to accomplish something when he was really just trying to trick Rand again. 

[henrywho]

8 hours ago, Jaccsen said:

 

Agreed. The Wheel of Time is cyclical. There is always some type of Age of Legends and someone always seeks too deeply and recreates the Bore. It is never the same story. Perrin and Rand are not tied to the Wheel. Their souls were weaved into the third age and they may have become Ta'Veren specifically because of their close bond to Rand.. They may have earned a place among the heroes and it is clearly shown that has happened in the past but the events unfold differently in each age because the Creator does allow for free will.

Mat, in the books, has lived past lives like Rand. Perrin I'm not sure on(memory not what it should be)  but Mat's "soul" has lived many times before. I'm half way through book 4 again and even at this point that's been made clear. So I suspect Mat's been Ta'Veren as long as Rand at least.

Oh I think it's clear their lives are different in a lot of respects each time round the wheel.  Only makes sense, they are not stuck in an actual time loop. The underlying forces remain the same, until this time round. My only disagreement with your statement  is that I believe Rand and Mat are most definitely tied to the wheel and probably Perrin along with the dark one and the forsaken. Pretty much everyone else is a random draw each time round.

[Kaleb]

On 4/8/2024 at 4:09 PM, Kaleb said:

we're not just theorizing on fan forums, there's now actually an official alternate canon that can be engaged with on its own and in relation to the original!

  

On 4/8/2024 at 6:10 PM, henrywho said:

Sorry I have no idea what you are saying here.

I see that...

I just mean that, like Harry Potter, like LOTR, like the four Gospels, there are multiple official ("canon") versions of the same story, which adds to the richness of the dialogue around all of them. I'm grateful for the depth and alternate perspectives on the same story.

 

17 hours ago, henrywho said:

A flat NO!

"The wheel of time turns and ages come and pass leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth and even myth is long forgotten when the age that gave it birth comes again. In one age called the 3rd age by some. An age yet to come an age long past."

indicating that in this universe everything repeats. How many times has the dragon been reborn ? Each time succumbing to the dark, until this time. It clearly states that the stories are forgotten.

At no stage is it suggested that all stories are confused retellings. Even if that's true it's not suggested in these books and is most certainly not the premise.

The actual premise is little different to a lot of stories. Be true to who you really are and good always defeats evil eventually.

The bolded is a nice theme, I really loved how it plays out in Roald Dahl's Charlie & The Chocolate Factory too. The point I made about misunderstanding and confusion is exactly the same point that Jordan makes in the "memories...legend...myth" sequence you quote, and it's a premise of the world he created - how it functions - rather than a theme such as the conflict between good and evil.

 

The key points I'm making about about the importance of misunderstanding the world, including false conceptions of the past and prophecy, are hammered home over and over again. The columns of Rhuidean is a vivid illustration of that point, where many potential Aiel leaders are so invested in their self-conception as a proud warrior culture that they literally claw their eyes out when faced with a version of the truth that undermines the story they've been telling themselves. I see book purists who fall back to claiming that "the Prime adaptation shouldn't even be called The Wheel Of Time" in much the same way.

Edited April 10 by Kaleb

[Kaleb]

On 4/8/2024 at 5:16 PM, Samt said:

The WoT is obviously a very complex story and lots of things happen just because and you can change them and still have a good story.  The problem is that it is a very complex story and lots of things happen and changing some of them has consequences for what happens later.  

 

For instance, having Rand go off on his own at the end of season 1 means that you can't have Lan train him in season 2 and that means that you have to re-work the Turak fight and can't have him sheath the sword at Falme.  (I'm using the word "can't" here somewhat lightly since storytelling is flexible, but the point is that choices also have consequences as to what happens next logically).  

 

Imagine something like Dumai's wells.  To set that up, you need the tower schism, the Shaido defeated at Cairhien, Mazrim Taim setting up the black tower, and Perrin back from the Two Rivers with wolves and the Two Rivers men.  Can they do all of that?  Maybe.  But it's a lot.  

 

Now go further.  Consider all of the threads that have to be brought together at the last battle.  That list is long and subjective and certainly some of the things will be cut.  Hinderstap probably doesn't make it in.  Dragons might not be there.  Five great captains is probably out.  At this point, we don't even know how Rand is going to get Callandor.  How many of these little cuts can you make before it's just a different story.  

Perhaps we'll find out! But through season 2, it's clearly an adaptation of The Wheel Of Time. If every single proper noun was changed, most book readers who watched it would still recognize the story and world of WoT in nearly every scene in every episode.

 

For one show I do watch, I think Avatar The Last Airbender is an apt comparison. The original animated series is something like 60 episodes, the new live-action version is going to be 24 (each a bit longer than the animated ones). In just the first season, they've cut what seemed to be key scenes, and added others that weren't in the original, put characters in different places, and made some events happen out of order. But it's clearly the same story, and I don't understand what someone would hope to accomplish by saying "it shouldn't even be called Avatar The Last Airbender!"

[DojoToad]

19 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

(4) I mostly liked S2E8. Egwene getting free of the collar wasn’t great (I wish they would have let Elayne and Nyn participate), and I thought some of it was a but cheesy, but overall I felt it was a solid episode. 

Wait a minute - so Egwene gets out of the collar unassisted?  Guess we won't need Rand to obliterate the Domination Band later on...

 

New turning and all that.  😁

[Samt]

9 hours ago, Kaleb said:

Perhaps we'll find out! But through season 2, it's clearly an adaptation of The Wheel Of Time. If every single proper noun was changed, most book readers who watched it would still recognize the story and world of WoT in nearly every scene in every episode.

Not really.  As a whole, you might see the story.  But certain scenes and arcs and episodes are entirely unrecognizable but for their proper nouns.  

 

The story starts with Perrin married and a master blacksmith, Matt a petty-thief and gambling addict from a dysfunctional family, and Egwene being thrown off a cliff and then having sex with Rand in the inn common room.  Without the names, we might not even recognize the main characters. 

 

Then, S1E8 does not really have any of the characters doing anything that they do in the climax of TEotW.  The challenges, antagonists, and actions are completely changed.   The eye of the world is not really what it was in the books.  Magic is used to destroy some fantasy monsters and raise people from the dead (I know the show creators say that isn't what happens but the fact they have to say that speaks for itself) while Rand comes to grips with the fact that his girlfriend doesn't like him anymore and that he shouldn't force her to.  

 

In S2, Rand's arc involves him sleeping with an inn-keeper and working in an insane asylum where he murders his co-worker.  He takes a romantic getaway to the mountains where he learns that his girlfriend can regenerate from having her throat slit.  That's a completely different story with a different hero and different lore.  

 

Mat is breaking out from prison with Min who is now working with Liandrin and Ishamael to dupe Mat into coming so that he can be there to stab Rand with a dagger that he tied to the end of a curtain rod. If he didn't blow the horn at the end, it wouldn't be anything like Mat.  Min is a complete disaster area.

 

Moiraine can't channel anymore so she takes some baths and meets with Bayle Domon who she swindles out of a scrap of paper because she really needs to get one up on him and not pay him for his time. Moiraine in the books is always generous and careful to fairly compensate the people who help her.  And Bayle Domon's facial hair is wrong.  Moiraine then proves that the 3 oaths don't really matter when it's important for the plot that they don't.

 

Perrin starts out mostly as he does in the books except that Rand and Mat aren't with him which is kind of a big deal. Then he fights a battle with Seanchan, gets rescued by Elyas from a carriage, and then actually kills Geofram Bornhald instead of just being accused of it while having nothing to do with it.  

 

Egwene, Elayne, and Nynaeve are kind of on a fairly recognizable path until we learn that actually the a'dam are completely escapable if you want it bad enough (but also don't want to use it as a weapon, just to kill someone).  And Nynaeve actually doesn't understand basic first aid, but I'll just chalk that up to the show creators not understanding basic first aid.  

 

Turak and Ingtar both just get a big whoopsie wink to the book readers.  We literally wouldn't know what these guys were supposed to be if they didn't have the same names as the book characters.  The creators are basically just acknowledging that they know these characters were supposed to be there so they cast them and gave them costumes and then killed them because they couldn't actually do the story.  

 

Of course, there are some parts that are quite similar, but those are becoming less and less common in the series.  

[Kaleb]

^ If these people and places all had different names and the story was called Legends Of Zzynx, book readers would be in a rage about how WoT was being ripped off. 

[Samt]

51 minutes ago, Kaleb said:

^ If these people and places all had different names and the story was called Legends Of Zzynx, book readers would be in a rage about how WoT was being ripped off. 

Taken as a whole, sure.  There is enough alike that you'd see the similarities. But your claim was practically every scene is recognizable.   I mean, I wouldn't recognize Rand in the scenes from S2.  Or Bayle Domon.  Or Min.  Or Turak.  Mat only because of the budget ashandarei and horn.  

 

Remove names and lore specific terms (blight, trollocs, one power, etc.) and S1E8 watched in a vacuum wouldn't remind me of WoT at all.  It's just a generic fantasy battle.  

 

 

Edited April 10 by Samt

[Kaleb]

36 minutes ago, Samt said:

Taken as a whole, sure.  There is enough alike that you'd see the similarities. But your claim was practically every scene is recognizable. 

Perhaps we are both making overly strong claims!

 

I was responding to your question "how many of these little cuts can you make before it's just a different story?" which I took to be another version of the claim that the show shouldn't be called The Wheel Of Time.

 

If I turned on some random fantasy show and watched any of the scenes you mentioned with different proper names, it might take me a few minutes to recognize WoT, but I would certainly get there quickly with all the visual symbolism that's packed into many scenes. So much of the production screams Wheel Of Time, beyond just the Dragon's Fang.

 

All of the main characters in the show feel like real versions of the ones in the book, even if they emphasize different physical or emotional aspects. I'm not troubled one bit by Rand and Egwene having an age-appropriate sexual relationship, nor by Abel Cauthon showing up as pretty sleazy - horse-traders would be the equivalent of used-car salesmen in our world. We could go on through all of the examples you brought up, but ultimately you're exactly right that they are different from the books. I just don't find that to be disqualifying as WoT, Instead, I find it an interesting new perspective on the story.

 

[Samt]

1 hour ago, Kaleb said:

Perhaps we are both making overly strong claims!

 

I was responding to your question "how many of these little cuts can you make before it's just a different story?" which I took to be another version of the claim that the show shouldn't be called The Wheel Of Time.

 

If I turned on some random fantasy show and watched any of the scenes you mentioned with different proper names, it might take me a few minutes to recognize WoT, but I would certainly get there quickly with all the visual symbolism that's packed into many scenes. So much of the production screams Wheel Of Time, beyond just the Dragon's Fang.

 

All of the main characters in the show feel like real versions of the ones in the book, even if they emphasize different physical or emotional aspects. I'm not troubled one bit by Rand and Egwene having an age-appropriate sexual relationship, nor by Abel Cauthon showing up as pretty sleazy - horse-traders would be the equivalent of used-car salesmen in our world. We could go on through all of the examples you brought up, but ultimately you're exactly right that they are different from the books. I just don't find that to be disqualifying as WoT, Instead, I find it an interesting new perspective on the story.

 

You not being troubled by it is not the same as saying it isn't a significant change to the character or story.  Emond's Field in the books is a very prudish and borderline puritanical place.  Lots can be said as to whether that is "realistic" or good for the story.  But throwing that out is a major shift for the main characters.  And it's not just the sex, but also the fairly flippant approach to violence and killing people.  Egwene killing Renna perhaps feels like a sort of justified rage (and even then a big change for her), but Rand murdering the orderly feels quite over the top.  He was clearly a pompous asshole, but that doesn't justify leaving him in a puddle of his own blood in an alley.  

 

You're right that some of the show could be tied to the Wheel of Time with a bit of imagination, but I'd say the strongest departure from the books is really the Rand/Lanfear arc through the beginning of S2.  You can like the change and the development it brings, but none of it happens in the books and it feels very different from the actual events in the books.  It also breaks the lore significantly and Rand's comfort with fornication, assault, and deceit makes him very different from the Rand of the early books.  

 

Again, this isn't a matter of whether you like the changes or whether you think they are "realistic."  

 

In regards to "how many of these cuts can you make," my point is also that these changes compound.  Rand going off on his own after S1 seems a small thing, but it has a huge impact on S2.  Those changes add to other small changes in S2 that will likely have impact on S3.  The changes only roll one way.   

Edited April 10 by Samt

[Kaleb]

1 hour ago, Kaleb said:

but ultimately you're exactly right that they are different from the books. I just don't find that to be disqualifying as WoT, Instead, I find it an interesting new perspective on the story.

 

 

[Samt]

48 minutes ago, Kaleb said:

 

That's fair.  The question I would follow up with is: What are the things that make WoT WoT?  Going forward, what are some things that have to happen for it to remain an adaptation of Wheel of Time?  Where is the line?  What if Dumai's Wells doesn't happen?  What if Callandor doesn't exist?  What if the Finns don't exist?  What about Slayer or the Gholam?  What if the CHoden Kai don't exist?  

 

Just in general, can you articulate a clear list of events that are core to the story?

[Kaleb]

19 minutes ago, Samt said:

Just in general, can you articulate a clear list of events that are core to the story?

Not really, in the sense that things don't have to happen the same way in this much shorter version of the story. I can see myself being extremely disappointed if next season doesn't have some version of the Rhuidean columns scenes, but I can also see myself being delighted and intrigued by some unimagined alternate way to convey the story of the Aiel in much the same way that S1 consolidated Rand and Mat's long journey from Whitebridge to Caemlyn. 

Edited April 10 by Kaleb

[Samt]

31 minutes ago, Kaleb said:

Not really, in the sense that things don't have to happen the same way in this much shorter version of the story. I can see myself being extremely disappointed if next season doesn't have some version of the Rhuidean columns scenes, but I can also see myself being delighted and intrigued by some unimagined alternate way to convey the story of the Aiel in much the same way that S1 consolidated Rand and Mat's long journey from Whitebridge to Caemlyn. 

So how do you credibly judge that it's still Wheel of Time if basically anything could change and you wouldn't say that it was no longer Wheel of Time?

[henrywho]

5 hours ago, Kaleb said:

^ If these people and places all had different names and the story was called Legends Of Zzynx, book readers would be in a rage about how WoT was being ripped off. 

As a fan of the books I would not! I would ridicule it as a pathetic attempt at ripping off the books, Laugh at the inept writing and assume the unrecognisable and new characters are only there to prevent a law suit.

[Elder_Haman]

14 minutes ago, Samt said:

So how do you credibly judge that it's still Wheel of Time if basically anything could change and you wouldn't say that it was no longer Wheel of Time?

It’s very hard to judge things in a vacuum. For instance, I could see a reworking of the plot where Callandor is exchanged for the Bowl of the Winds and is found by Nyn and Elayne. This would be a huge change from the books and I could very easily find that it doesn’t work at all. On the other hand, it could be written very well and work flawlessly. My perception of whether it was still the “Wheel of Time” would depend entirely on the execution. 

[henrywho]

3 hours ago, Kaleb said:

 but ultimately you're exactly right that they are different from the books. I just don't find that to be disqualifying as WoT, Instead, I find it an interesting new perspective on the story.

 

So not a fan after all. No loyalty to the authors efforts and imagination. No respect for the, literally, countless hours of work by the author and the efforts of family and friends. This is not just a statement about TWoT it refers to every book YOU have ever read that was adapted in some way and strayed as far as TWoT has from the source material!

The series is little better than a POORLY written fan-fiction loosely based on some of the Robert Jordan books. It is an insult to the memory and efforts of Robert Jordan.

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, henrywho said:

So not a fan after all. No loyalty to the authors efforts and imagination. No respect for the, literally, countless hours of work by the author and the efforts of family and friends. This is not just a statement about TWoT it refers to every book YOU have ever read that was adapted in some way and strayed as far as TWoT has from the source material!

The series is little better than a POORLY written fan-fiction loosely based on some of the Robert Jordan books. It is an insult to the memory and efforts of Robert Jordan.

This type of gatekeeping is frowned upon here. You are in no position to judge whether someone is a “real fan” or whether they have “loyalty to” or “respect for” Mr. Jordan and Mr. Sanderson. Nor are you entitled to determine what Mr. Jordan would consider to be an insult. 
 

Please refrain from making these types of comments moving forward as they are not conducive to discussion and often devolve into name calling and mean spiritedness.