Does Rafe ignore Shara?

[DojoToad]

2 hours ago, Skipp said:

 

Funny thing about that considering the attitudes of the forsaken.  Several times in the books the Forsaken are unwilling to join a circle unless they were leading it as they didn't trust one another.  Imagine that but with the possibility of the circle leading being able to burn you out.

 

One thing we know about most darkfriends is that they join the shadow to amass power for themselves.  They are not the most willing to sacrifice themselves.

Not the most willing?  I would say not willing at all. 😝

[Mailman]

12 hours ago, Skipp said:

 

Funny thing about that considering the attitudes of the forsaken.  Several times in the books the Forsaken are unwilling to join a circle unless they were leading it as they didn't trust one another.  Imagine that but with the possibility of the circle leading being able to burn you out.

 

One thing we know about most darkfriends is that they join the shadow to amass power for themselves.  They are not the most willing to sacrifice themselves.

No the forsaken are not willing to place themselves in the power of others. They also have no compunction about using things like compulsion and have access to those that have pledged themselves to the dark one who they control. They also have vastly superior skills to someone like Amelisa and would have no issue in burning out others in pursuit of their own power. They also have no retreat position meaning put into mortal danger nothing is off the table.

 

The light side also have no retreat position it's win or everything is over faced with the dark one winning there are a huge number of book characters that would make the sacrifice.

 

The power used in the final episode of season 1 basically makes it a cold war situation except with a protagonist in the Dark One that has no care about Mutually Assured Destruction.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Mailman

[Scarloc99]

On 11/8/2022 at 2:49 PM, WhiteVeils said:

He doesn't have to start out channeling, either. In fact, that lowers CGI costs a bit. Remember the battle can't be quite as long. He can start out just using the damane on his side and all his armies, and only 3/4 of the way through the battle when he's really depleted does he start channeling for real. At that point it's too late for even those on his team to stop him, especially if those very close to him are compelled.. It makes a good late-battle twist, and makes sense why Gawyn/Galad/Lan at that point close on him and can get close...most of his Seanchen forces are dead.

 

There seems to be this assumption the final battle can’t be as long, I wonder why not, why can’t they have 3 hours dedicated to the last battle.

[WhiteVeils]

If the Foresaken do rings via compulsion, then Demandred doesn't need a Seanchen society that accepts male channelers...He just grabs them and forces them to accept. If the foresaken don't, then there's no conern for needing male channelers. In either event, a Seanchen civil war instead of Sharans works.

[Mailman]

2 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

If the Foresaken do rings via compulsion, then Demandred doesn't need a Seanchen society that accepts male channelers...He just grabs them and forces them to accept. If the foresaken don't, then there's no conern for needing male channelers. In either event, a Seanchen civil war instead of Sharans works.

He can't compulsion everyone he can form the rings with it but it's still not going to sit well with all the generals, soldiers and general population.

[WhiteVeils]

13 hours ago, Mailman said:

He can't compulsion everyone he can form the rings with it but it's still not going to sit well with all the generals, soldiers and general population.

Who are going to be far too busy in the middle of the last battle to protest, even if they are not dead.

 

 

And if any survive...they have good reason to end the civil war by going over to Tuon's side for having been used by a Foresaken.

[Spider Spence]

I thought that the Shara twist had been nicely set up in the books. Because anytime anyone mentions Shara, it's "oh, that place? No one understands it and it doesn't matter anyway." 🤣

 

But I agree that it's too complex for a 6-season show, esp. when Rafe's already cut some crucial stuff. WhiteVeils' 'divided Seanchan' story, at least in broad strokes, is probably their best choice.

[Mailman]

8 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

Who are going to be far too busy in the middle of the last battle to protest, even if they are not dead.

 

 

And if any survive...they have good reason to end the civil war by going over to Tuon's side for having been used by a Foresaken.

It's still a jump for them to just accept the male channelers.

 

How about this for an idea. Have one of the female forsaken take over the rebel Seachan and have her make a pact with Demandred. He gets to lead her armies as a general and he gets to fight Lews Therin in single combat if they can draw him out. She retains control of the Seachan and gets the finest general alive to lead them and she takes over the channeling duties in the last battle courtesy of using an A'dam. This plays into Demandreds fixation on Lews Therin nicely as well.

 

The male dreadlords fight within the dark ones forces away from the Seachan.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Mailman

[wotfan4472]

That would not work. The only female Forsaken that Demandred trusted for anything were Mesaana and Semirhage.

For that to work, one of them has be the one to do it, and before Nai blis becomes a thing.

 

Which means, either Egwene does not get her big moment with Mesaana on her way to earning her position as Amyrlin, or Rand does not get his moment with Semirhage, on his way to earning his Dragonmount moment in accepting his purpose.

 

Graendal would use those rebel Seanchan and turn on him, and Moghedien would probably lose control of them, as easily as Lanfear would. That still leaves Mesaana or Semirhage.

Edited November 25, 2022 by wotfan4472

[Scarloc99]

On 11/11/2022 at 2:11 PM, wotfan4472 said:

The easiest way is River Of Souls being used in the show. It would be good to have as a link up to when Demandred first appears. The main issue is where to show it. The show has two options. It either splits the events in River Of Souls by placing the Cleansing in the middle, or start the entire arc after that happens.

 

Perhaps the show can present the events as sections once the Age Of Legends prologues and epilogues are done.

 

It is too complex to change the Seanchan that much to fit in what happens. Another difficulty, is if the show even has him use a circle of 72, or not. If the show does use it, then the Seanchan is out as a possible threat, since they do not have access to male channellers, and their circles are limited to basically two people, due to the a'dam. The only way that could be done is if the damane did not exist in the show. Since they are present, then it has to mean the Sharans are there.

 

That leaves the Sharans as the only civilisation that has the number of channellers to pull off the damage that should be done, since they technically have access to both sides of the source, something that only Randland has access to by the time of the Last Battle besides Shara. 

As per my original question this is one option, but, you lose a lot of TV show time for other stories that are key to the last battle as well, or important world building. You also have the issues of finding sets that look very very different to the rest of the show, so there will be a cost implication to filming scenes that might not be as important as others. So I am still very torn and can see the last battle working without the Sharan attack. 

[DojoToad]

3 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

As per my original question this is one option, but, you lose a lot of TV show time for other stories that are key to the last battle as well, or important world building. You also have the issues of finding sets that look very very different to the rest of the show, so there will be a cost implication to filming scenes that might not be as important as others. So I am still very torn and can see the last battle working without the Sharan attack. 

As badly as I think the books set up the Sharan attack, it did make me wonder just how much more the forces of light could take. The attack was a devastating blow from my perspective and truly made me wonder how the good guys would survive. The TV show has the opportunity to improve the set up for the Sharans and to stack the deck against the light without the ‘cheating’ feeling I got from the books. 

[Elendir]

I don't expect splitted battlefield in last battle. Sharans or second Seanchan will be not needed then. Decision about Sharans will be done base on cost benefit of their appearance.

New costumes versus get you effect.

[Asthereal]

On 11/8/2022 at 4:01 AM, Mailman said:

I like the idea of having dual sides in the seachan the main issue that I see is Demandred and his use of the one power during the final battle being acceptable from a hardcore damane power control point of view.

 

Good point. Though I think we can easily solve this, adding to the split idea of the Seanchan. The Seanchan already consist of two peoples: the original population of the continent, and the decendants of Hawkwing and his armies. Hawkwing's people provide the idea that channelers should be controlled, and the original population can have the prophecy of "The Wyld", their version of the chosen one, which Demandred can use, and eventually take that role. The Aes Sedai also believe that men should not be allowed to channel, yet they accept the Dragon Reborn as a necessary evil to be able to win the Last Battle, so the Seanchan could have views along those lines as well.

[Dagon Thyne]

I wouldn't be surprised if they used the unpublished notes to add Shara and Damondred to the story more.  He wasn't really built up at all in the books, since you never really knew what he was up to.