Was this Jains first turning of the wheel?

[Scarloc99]

We learn, when Olver blows the horn, that Jain is bound to the Horn as one of the hero’s. 
Is this Jains first time, did his actions in WOT deem him worthy of being bound, or, has it been confirmed, if Jain has, like other hero’s, been reborn over and over previously? 

[wotfan4472]

It was his first go through. There are no other indications that Jain is from a long linked Hero. His presence as a Hero may explain why Mat is not one, because it is entirely possible that Jain took the spot.

 

He did a ton to be chosen, after all; he revealed a Darkfriend to his people, set off a situation that actually aided the fight in helping to make Slayer, and sent warning of a situation that actually came close to exposing Ishamael too soon.

 

The Ogier at stedding Shangtai came pretty close to discovering that information, especially Elder Haman. He was suspicious of the Eye Of The World warning Jain gave when we see him, and pretty much surmised that a Forsaken was already out in that conversation.

[Asthereal]

18 hours ago, wotfan4472 said:

It was his first go through. There are no other indications that Jain is from a long linked Hero. His presence as a Hero may explain why Mat is not one, because it is entirely possible that Jain took the spot.

 

He did a ton to be chosen, after all; he revealed a Darkfriend to his people, set off a situation that actually aided the fight in helping to make Slayer, and sent warning of a situation that actually came close to exposing Ishamael too soon.

 

The Ogier at stedding Shangtai came pretty close to discovering that information, especially Elder Haman. He was suspicious of the Eye Of The World warning Jain gave when we see him, and pretty much surmised that a Forsaken was already out in that conversation.

 

Mat's not dead, so he can't be bound to the Horn just yet. His soul may have been bound earlier, but that's unclear.

 

As for Jain: he was alive at that time, so I don't think we can know whether he'd been bound to the Horn earlier in this turning of the Wheel. He died and got bound to the Horn, but perhaps before his soul was spun out into the pattern for the Third Age, he might have been bound to the Horn as well, having done all sorts of heroic stuff in the Second Age. We don't learn about this in the books, though. I'd say it's probably his first time being bound in this turning, but I don't think there's any evidence to support this.

 

One thing is clear, though: if your soul is alive in the world, you're not one of the heroes of the Horn. You can become one when you die. If I recall correctly, this was the point of Birgitte's ending. She died, and then the Horn was sounded, allowing her to return and immediately take revenge, while standing over her own dead body. Cool moment, I thought. 😉 

[wotfan4472]

While it is correct that Mat is not dead, we have Rogosh Eagle Eye pretty much confirming that Mat is not a Hero, and he does not know why.

 

Parallel that with what Artur Hawkwing told Rand at Falme, and the intimation is clear.

 

I still think that Mat is not a Hero, because Jain earned it more.

[ForsakenPotato]

I interpreted it that Mat wasn't a hero because he never wanted to be, not because his actions were any less heroic. He spends the whole of almost every book railing against the idea that he might be a hero -- being bound to the horn to be a hero for eternity would be his idea of hell.

[SinisterDeath]

17 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

I interpreted it that Mat wasn't a hero because he never wanted to be, not because his actions were any less heroic. He spends the whole of almost every book railing against the idea that he might be a hero -- being bound to the horn to be a hero for eternity would be his idea of hell.

You have to remember that there are far more than 100 heroes of the horn, but there's only ever 100 at a time. I don't remember anything about this

7 hours ago, wotfan4472 said:

we have Rogosh Eagle Eye pretty much confirming that Mat is not a Hero, and he does not know why.

You can't be a "hero" of the horn until after you're dead. 
The only thing that's pertinent to Mat regarding the horn is that he "died", and the horn was no longer bound to him. Which allowed Olver to use it.

In the future, he could become a hero of the horn, but that requires other heroes of the horn to be spun out, and Mat to die.

We don't really know what happens to Mat in the 4th age. 

In the future, It's just as possible he becomes a corrupt leader of a slaver empire, as he would a legendary hero of the horn.

[Sabio]

It might have to do with Jain became a hero because of his deeds and the sacrifices he was forced to make. he was used by so it wasn't anything he willingly did. Mat's "greatness" was more of the result of other's memories being stuffed into him.  A lot of people do good deeds in their lifetime, Mat was certainly someone who would help and do the right thing.  But a lot of his greatness was simply going through those doorways and a few episodes of selfishness which could have doomed the world.  It's possible things like his taking the dagger work against his making hero status.

[Elder_Haman]

On 10/24/2022 at 9:29 AM, wotfan4472 said:

The Ogier at stedding Shangtai came pretty close to discovering that information, especially Elder Haman. He was suspicious of the Eye Of The World warning Jain gave when we see him, and pretty much surmised that a Forsaken was already out in that conversation.

Correct. I would have figured the whole thing out in a couple of decades.