New series recommendation

[DojoToad]

13 hours ago, CaddySedai said:

I suggest the Green Rider series by Kristin Britain.

 

Nice unique bit of high fantasy. Still being written but there are multiple books in play already.

 

Also the Pern books by Anne McAffrey. There's got to be infinity of those now so that series will take a hot minute.

Really liked the first Pern book, but never went further for whatever reason. Maybe it is time…

Edited December 16, 2022 by DojoToad

[Stedding Tofu]

On 12/9/2022 at 8:47 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

Another series I haven't seen listed here the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the first 6 books are brilliantly written and have some really great moments in them. I have not read the last 4 books yet, partially out of a fear they would disappoint

 

I read The First Chronicles when I was a teenager and Donaldson became one of my favourite fantasy authors.  Second Chronicles were different but equally good. Modern readers should be aware that Covenant is a grey character and Donaldson doesn't shy away from sexual violence in any of his series.

 

I have twice tried to read the Last Chronicles but found them hard going and gave up.

 

On 12/9/2022 at 9:39 AM, Kalessin said:

Apart from that, I recommend the final trilogy. I read it via the local library, and enjoyed it even more than the first two trilogies. In it, for example,

 

And now I don't need to.  Spoilers maybe?  😅

 

On 12/15/2022 at 11:06 AM, Asthereal said:

The Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson definitely needs to be in here.

 

I would recommend you read Warbreaker (standalone, but in-universe) before starting with Stormlight 1 (The Way of Kings), but it's not necessary. I just love Warbreaker, and you'll meet characters from that book in the Stormlight books,

 

Stormlight readers should be aware that Sanderson's books are very long.  The Way of Kings, e.g., Book One of Five of the first Stormlight sequence is longer than the entire Lord of The Rings.  BS intends to write two sequences each of five books and, though he's a prolific writer, he needs to weave in other books and has quite a long-term schedule for what he intends to publish over the next decade or so.

 

The odd easter egg characters are interesting but frustrating as you don't know what they are (I don't) without having read the other works.  Always makes me think I don't really understand individual's motives or what is really happening - very definitely the case in Stormlight  as BS slowly reveals more of the past, who's who and what they want and how things work in each book.  Takes a long time 🙂.  Not advocating against it - I am reading Book Four right now - just commenting.

 

12 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

This might be controversial but, having tried several Brandon Sanderson books I really dislike him as an author of his own work. It just all feels a bit YA to me. 

 

His writing style, dialogue and character interactions can feel a bit that way but the design and detail of his worlds is very deep.  There's a lot here to uncover.

 

My favourites are JRRT (LOTR and Silmarillion), GRRM (ASOIAF - unfinished!) and RJ (WOT).

 

Beyond those obvious recommendations I would add

 

Stephen Donaldson - First and Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant (both trilogies); Mordant's Need (two books); The GAP series (five book sci-fi that keeps building the tension extremely well).

 

Julian May - The Saga of Pilocene Exile (four books); Intervention (a stand alone work - my favourite -  bridging from the Pilocene into the Galactic); The Galactic Milieu Series (a trilogy).  Sci-fi rather than fantasy but the Pilocene Exile bridges the two genres.

 

[Asthereal]

On 12/16/2022 at 1:30 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

This might be controversial but, having tried several Brandon Sanderson books I really dislike him as an author of his own work. It just all feels a bit YA to me. 

Sanderson is the most accessible fantasy author by far, which has its disadvantages as well. I really enjoy the fact that his 450k word epics read like mainstream thrillers, but I completely understand if it's not for you. If you read fantasy in large part for beautiful prose and strong symbolism, you'll find Sanderson to be mostly the opposite to that. He mostly just tells cool stories.

[Scarloc99]

1 hour ago, Asthereal said:

Sanderson is the most accessible fantasy author by far, which has its disadvantages as well. I really enjoy the fact that his 450k word epics read like mainstream thrillers, but I completely understand if it's not for you. If you read fantasy in large part for beautiful prose and strong symbolism, you'll find Sanderson to be mostly the opposite to that. He mostly just tells cool stories.

I don't find his stories that cool personally, I don't need high fantasy fiction to enjoy it, I mean I love the Games Workshop novels and they are not works of littery genius always lol. His stories just don't grab me and I find myself feeling nothing for his characters. They are words on a page, the worlds he builds seem interesting but the stories he tells in them just make me go a bit meh. 

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, Sir_Charrid said:

I don't find his stories that cool personally, I don't need high fantasy fiction to enjoy it, I mean I love the Games Workshop novels and they are not works of littery genius always lol. His stories just don't grab me and I find myself feeling nothing for his characters. They are words on a page, the worlds he builds seem interesting but the stories he tells in them just make me go a bit meh. 

Exactly.  Though I did really enjoy the first Mistborn book, the following two were pretty much as you described for me @Sir_Charrid.  There were a few good reveals and twists, but overall the books ended very flat for me.  

 

The Stormlight Archive didn't do any better for me.  Slaves running around with ladders to move between rock outcroppings without getting killed - didn't get where it was going.  The summoned armor/swords was a cool concept to begin but in the end didn't do it for me.  Not that there weren't great parts in 'Way of Kings' like the assassin trying to take out the guy in summoned armor.  In the end, I think Brandon can write some great scenes but either has trouble tying them together, or the strong ones just can't pull the load for the weak ones.

 

So not a fan, but am eternally grateful to him for finishing WoT!!!  He did great there in my opinion.

[JosephBurns]

3 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

I don't find his stories that cool personally, I don't need high fantasy fiction to enjoy it, I mean I love the Games Workshop novels and they are not works of littery genius always lol. His stories just don't grab me and I find myself feeling nothing for his characters. They are words on a page, the worlds he builds seem interesting but the stories he tells in them just make me go a bit meh. 

 

I've had the same problem.  But I'm left wondering if its because I've been comparing him to RJ.  I never read any of BS before he took over WoT and the shift in style seems noticeable in the later books.  Maybe it's in my head though.    

[Asthereal]

On 12/19/2022 at 6:57 PM, JosephBurns said:

 

I've had the same problem.  But I'm left wondering if its because I've been comparing him to RJ.  I never read any of BS before he took over WoT and the shift in style seems noticeable in the later books.  Maybe it's in my head though.    

The shift is definitely there in WoT. The Gathering Storm speeds up about twofold compared to Knife of Dreams, and you can see many things that Sanderson does differently. I still really love the last three books, but perhaps I was biased towards Sanderson as I had read five of his books before ever starting WoT.

 

If you want to give Sanderson a second chance and don't want to dive into something as big as Stormlight, I'd recommend you try Warbreaker. The e-book you can downloaded for free from his website, it's a standalone - as far as you can call it that as it is part of the Cosmere, and I really loved that book. It cost me a fair few nights of sleep, being unable to put it down. 😉

 

Another option could be Skyward, which is scifi, and more young adult-ish in setup, but I found it to be extremely entertaining and a very smooth read throughout. Excellent character arc for the protagonist and more or less perfect pacing. And you can read it as a standalone as well, even though it's part of a four book series (part 4 comes out next year, I believe).

Edited December 21, 2022 by Asthereal

[Scarloc99]

1 hour ago, Asthereal said:

The shift is definitely there in WoT. The Gathering Storm speeds up about twofold compared to Knife of Dreams, and you can see many things that Sanderson does differently. I still really love the last three books, but perhaps I was biased towards Sanderson as I had read five of his books before ever starting WoT.

 

If you want to give Sanderson a second chance and don't want to dive into something as big as Stormlight, I'd recommend you try Warbreaker. The e-book you can downloaded for free from his website, it's a standalone - as far as you can call it that as it is part of the Cosmere, and I really loved that book. It cost me a fair few nights of sleep, being unable to put it down. 😉

 

Another option could be Skyward, which is scifi, and more young adult-ish in setup, but I found it to be extremely entertaining and a very smooth read throughout. Excellent character arc for the protagonist and more or less perfect pacing. And you can read it as a standalone as well, even though it's part of a four book series (part 4 comes out next year, I believe).

Tried both of them, didn't like them either lol, I think it is just the fact that some of us don't like BS work for various reasons, and thats ok, we shouldn't all like the same stuff 🙂 

[Elder_Haman]

On 12/19/2022 at 8:22 AM, DojoToad said:

The Stormlight Archive didn't do any better for me. 

I mean, it's not done though.

I like Sanderson quite a bit. He writes so much that I think his quality suffers sometimes. But he writes fun characters that do cool things. 

 

I'm particularly fond of Stormlight because of the deeper themes and philosophies it explores. I feel like Stormlight is an expression of Sanderson's personal views on spiritual and moral truth. It feeds into the reasons I enjoy fantasy fiction in the first place - good fantasy and science fiction allows for more meaningful insight into those truths. To me a great fantasy author is also a philosopher and theologian.

[DojoToad]

3 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I mean, it's not done though.

I like Sanderson quite a bit. He writes so much that I think his quality suffers sometimes. But he writes fun characters that do cool things. 

 

I'm particularly fond of Stormlight because of the deeper themes and philosophies it explores. I feel like Stormlight is an expression of Sanderson's personal views on spiritual and moral truth. It feeds into the reasons I enjoy fantasy fiction in the first place - good fantasy and science fiction allows for more meaningful insight into those truths. To me a great fantasy author is also a philosopher and theologian.

Right.  As I said, he writes some very cool scenes - just not enough to pull off the whole book (for me).    Others like him more than I.

[KakitaOCU]

Sorry if it's already been mentioned, but L. E. Modesitt Jr.

He's prolific and has several fantasy series running, some completed, some still open.  He tends to look at world histories so you usually have 2 or so books about a single protagonist before jumping to another time.  He also tends to focus on humans vs humans so there's rarely a true villain, just selfishness or different view points.  His fantasy series are as follows, starting with his biggest and main one.

The Saga of Recluce: First Book: The Magic of Recluce.  This is a world where the magic system is people who can tap what are essentially the fundamental aspects of entropy and creation in the universe.  Order Mages heal, bond, craft unbreakable items, control the weather.  Chaos Mages throw fire, bend light and in general break things apart.  The series covers approximately 2000 years of time across 23 books and 14 Protagonists.  It is also written out of Chronological order (The first book is second to last on the timeline)  So we read books that mention myths or legends of the ancient past, then eventually go back to that time and see the real people that gave birth to those legends.  

The Spellsong Cycle: First Book: The Soprano Sorceress.  2 Protagonists across 5 books.  This is a complete series that is set in a world where music is the foundation of magic.  Want something, sing it, it happens, but even the slightest off note can cause devastating results.  The first Protagonist is a vocal professor from Iowa who finds that despite only being good to middling here, her years of training plus basic understanding of science and math make her literally the most powerful person in the world.

The Corean Chronicles: First Book: Legacies.  3/4 Protagonists across 8 books.  This is a complete series where the world is a bit alien, green skies, stranger animals.  Magic is a Talent people have that is essentially aura sensing and lifeforce manipulation.  It focuses heavily on the price of a stable society and where the line has to be drawn between progress, safety and natural order.

The Imager Porfolio: First Book: Imager.  4 Protagonists across 12 books.  Imagers are people that are commonly thought to be able to create anything they want from nothing.  In reality they are essentially reality warpers who become more powerful with stress, practice and understanding of how the world works.  The first three books are set in an allegory for Industrial Revolution Europe with the main character becoming part of an EU type magic CIA.  Later books go back to see the original founding of this EU style solitary land and then moving forward some to see when it changed from a monarchy to a democratic republic.  This is my favorite of his works.

The Grand Illusion: First Book: Isolate.  So far 2 books, his newest series is kind of a magical early 1900's US.  We have cars, steam and electricity, magic comes in the form of Empaths who can project emotion even so far as to force death or overloading people.  There are also then Isolates, people who are completely immune to an Empath's powers.  The main character is a security and assistant to essentially a US Senator.

[DojoToad]

10 hours ago, KakitaOCU said:

The Saga of Recluce: First Book: The Magic of Recluce.  This is a world where the magic system is people who can tap what are essentially the fundamental aspects of entropy and creation in the universe.  Order Mages heal, bond, craft unbreakable items, control the weather.  Chaos Mages throw fire, bend light and in general break things apart.  The series covers approximately 2000 years of time across 23 books and 14 Protagonists.  It is also written out of Chronological order (The first book is second to last on the timeline)  So we read books that mention myths or legends of the ancient past, then eventually go back to that time and see the real people that gave birth to those legends.  

I take it you recommend this series?  Is it complete?

[DojoToad]

On 12/21/2022 at 5:47 PM, Elder_Haman said:

I mean, it's not done though.

I like Sanderson quite a bit. He writes so much that I think his quality suffers sometimes. But he writes fun characters that do cool things. 

 

I'm particularly fond of Stormlight because of the deeper themes and philosophies it explores. I feel like Stormlight is an expression of Sanderson's personal views on spiritual and moral truth. It feeds into the reasons I enjoy fantasy fiction in the first place - good fantasy and science fiction allows for more meaningful insight into those truths. To me a great fantasy author is also a philosopher and theologian.

Thinking about this some more.

 

I understand that it is not done, but that doesn't change how I feel about the books (Stormlight).  I read the first one and when the second came out, I just shrugged my shoulders and moved on.  The first one wasn't good enough to warrant me spending money on the second, or more importantly - time.

 

GRRM (song of ice and fire) has been making us wait over 11 years since his last book and I'm still eagerly awaiting news on a publication date.

 

BS is extremely prolific and I think that is a good thing - but his stories don't grip me like others.  I have the 2nd Mistborn trilogy sitting on my shelf unread for over a year because the 1st trilogy left me dreading an unsatisfying slog - even though the books are much shorter.  GRRM has been nothing but a frustrating excuse-machine for over a decade but I'll be first in line to pre-order Winds of Winter (if it ever happens 🤣).

 

Personally - GRRM satisfies my itch way better than BS.  Fun characters that do cool things are great, but are not the whole package.

[KakitaOCU]

5 hours ago, DojoToad said:

I take it you recommend this series?  Is it complete?

Recluce continues to get new books, however it isn't a continuous narrative, so "complete" isn't really applicable.

Putting them in Chronological order along with their relative times assuming Magi'i is "1"

Magi' of Cyador+Scion of Cyador: Year 1: The Empire of Cyador stands strong, techologically and magically superior to it's neighbors, but time has taken its toll and things are slowly changing.  Lorn is the son of a respected Mage who ends up choosing the path of a military captain instead.  His sees the path to strengthen his land and his own dreams, but can he take it?

Fall of Angels+Chaos Balance+ArmsCommander: Year 401: After being stranded on a desolate mountain top a ship's crew begin to create a new home called Westwind, the story focuses on Nylan, a Smith and crafter as he struggles with a more peaceful outlook in a world that is anything but.  His fellow companions see things in different lights, most notable his lover, Ryba, who understands that only might will allow them to survive.  Meanwhile another ship officer, Saryn, must struggle with having always lived in the shadows of others and taking orders vs finding her own path.

Cyador's Heirs+Heritage of Cyador: Year 425: Decades after the end of Cyador, it's people have created a small land in the distant continent of Hamor.  Lerial, the younger son of the Duke, must find his place in the world where his land could be more, or fall to the wayside.

Mongrel Mage+Outcasts of Order+Magefire War+Fairhaven Rising: Year 500: Beltur is supposed to be a Chaos Mage, but he's not very good at it.  A series of events will lead him to his true calling, but ultimately, no where is safe for people like him, not unless he and his friends make such a place himself. 

Two Towers: Year 900: Westwind has never allowed a son to train in arms or become a warrior.  That changes with Creslin, firstborn of the Marshal of Westwind.  When he is being forced into an arranged marriage he decides to plot his escape to the eastern kingdoms to seek his own destiny, one that may change the world.

White Order+Colors of Chaos+Magic Engineer: Year 1190: Cerryl grows up poor, but a latent talent for Chaos magic sees him thrust into the Leadership Caste of Fairhaven.  There he must handle intrigues from jealous superiors as well as the breakout of a trade war with a kingdom that wants to use the roads and services Fairhaven provides without paying proper tariffs for that use.  Meanwhile, Dorrin grows up on the land of Reluce, the Bastion of Order founded long ago by a powerful Weather Mage.  But when his desire to build machines leads to his exile from his home he finds a place welcoming him and willing to let him build his heart's desire.  But what changes will the Steam Engine bring to the world?

Natural Ordermage+Mageguard of Hamor: Year 1500: Rahl feels his life is unfair, and is somewhat proven right when it is revealed he is a "Natural" mage, meaning he cannot be taught but must stumble and sort through his abilities on his own.  When this leads to mishaps he is banished from Recluce to the land of Hamor.  Will his bitterness lead to his destruction or can he find purpose and position in a new land?

The Order War: Year 1650: Justin is an engineer on Recluce, complacent and somewhat bored, but when Recluce is called upon to assist the Land of Sarronyn in a war with Fairhaven he will begin to realize that the world was never meant to be Black and White and the path forward is Grey.

Wellspring of Chaos+Ordermaster: Year 1710: Kharl is a cooper, one of the best in Brysta, married, children, successful.  But when he stands up to the Lord's son by stopping their assaults on young women on two separate occasions he is driven from his home and must pick up a new path very late in life.

The Magic of Reluce+The Death of Chaos: Year 1850: Lerris grew up sheltered in Recluce, sometimes doubting that any danger or magic even existed.  But when his refusal to apply himself leads to a "Dangergeld", a controlled and temporary exile to learn about the world, he must decided what path he wants to follow.  

We also have Recluce Tales which is a collection of short stories that span the entire series timeline.  And coming next year is "From the Forest" which is set earlier than Magi'i of Cyador.
 

[Scarloc99]

If you want something lighter then I also suggest the Disc world books, and also anything by Tom Holt. 

[Kalessin]

And if you want something completely different, I suggest the Lankhmar stories by Fritz Leiber and the Viriconium stories by M John Harrison.

https://www.librarything.com/work/49464

https://sciencefictionruminations.com/2016/11/21/book-review-the-pastel-city-m-john-harrison-1971/

Not quite as long as the others, but considerably more involved. And then there are the Adventures of Alyx

https://www.tor.com/2011/06/28/reading-joanna-russ-the-adventures-of-alyx-1967-1970/

Again, not nearly so long as the others, but considerably more involved - Joanna Russ parodies Fritz Leiber at one point. She can be quite funny.

[Elder_Haman]

On 12/16/2022 at 5:20 AM, Stedding Tofu said:

Modern readers should be aware that Covenant is a grey character and Donaldson doesn't shy away from sexual violence in any of his series.

I'm re-reading the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant right now. There is only scene involving sexual violence in Lord Foul's Bane (the first book in the series), and while it is a critical plot point for everything that follows in the entire series, it is described in only a couple of paragraphs and hardly in any graphic detail (though the tone is appropriately disturbing). I don't recall any other similar scenes in any of the other 5 books.

 

I haven't read the Third Chronicles, so I could be missing something there.

[DojoToad]

5 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I'm re-reading the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant right now. There is only scene involving sexual violence in Lord Foul's Bane (the first book in the series), and while it is a critical plot point for everything that follows in the entire series, it is described in only a couple of paragraphs and hardly in any graphic detail (though the tone is appropriately disturbing). I don't recall any other similar scenes in any of the other 5 books.

 

I haven't read the Third Chronicles, so I could be missing something there.

I did read the first trilogy years ago and only remember the one scene myself describing sexual violence.  IIRC it was brought up many times so that we could all remember what he did - as if forgetting a scene like that would be possible - especially back in the day...

[Elder_Haman]

44 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

IIRC it was brought up many times so that we could all remember what he did - as if forgetting a scene like that would be possible - especially back in the day...

It's more that the guilt, shame and unforeseen consequences of that act continue to haunt the character throughout the series.

[DojoToad]

7 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

It's more that the guilt, shame and unforeseen consequences of that act continue to haunt the character throughout the series.

Right - guess I oversimplified it.

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

9 hours ago, DojoToad said:

9 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

It's more that the guilt, shame and unforeseen consequences of that act continue to haunt the character throughout the series.

Right - guess I oversimplified it.

His actions in book 2 are not entirely uncontroversial either.

[Scarloc99]

4 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

His actions in book 2 are not entirely uncontroversial either.

I always felt WOT had far more sexual content then Thomas Covenant with about an equal level of how graphic it is. I also always felt all Thomas Covenants actions are believable and make total sense for the character, what he has suffered, what he is now feeling and his own thoughts about what is happening to him. Nothing is written just for shock, every action has been through through carefully and it's impact plotted out. 

[Stedding Tofu]

16 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I'm re-reading the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant right now. There is only scene involving sexual violence in Lord Foul's Bane (the first book in the series), and while it is a critical plot point for everything that follows in the entire series, it is described in only a couple of paragraphs and hardly in any graphic detail (though the tone is appropriately disturbing). I don't recall any other similar scenes in any of the other 5 books.

 

I haven't read the Third Chronicles, so I could be missing something there.

 

Yes, it's just the one scene and my comment was more because the modern world can be unforgiving towards the portrayal of certain actions or a creative individual deemed to be on the wrong side of a value debate (I'm thinking of Tarnatino being criticised for a scene in The Hateful Eight, JK Rowling for her stance on women's refuges, etc..).  I certainly enjoy the series and I mentioned Donaldson became one of my favourite authors on the back of it but this is not an area he shies away from

 

Spoiler

Or in other works.  Morn Hyland, the protagonist of The Gap Series and Nick Succorso - not to mention Angus Thermopyle - or Terisa Morgan, the protagonist of Mordant's Need, and Master Eremis.

 

 

[Scarloc99]

8 hours ago, Stedding Tofu said:

 

Yes, it's just the one scene and my comment was more because the modern world can be unforgiving towards the portrayal of certain actions or a creative individual deemed to be on the wrong side of a value debate (I'm thinking of Tarnatino being criticised for a scene in The Hateful Eight, JK Rowling for her stance on women's refuges, etc..).  I certainly enjoy the series and I mentioned Donaldson became one of my favourite authors on the back of it but this is not an area he shies away from

 

  Hide contents

Or in other works.  Morn Hyland, the protagonist of The Gap Series and Nick Succorso - not to mention Angus Thermopyle - or Terisa Morgan, the protagonist of Mordant's Need, and Master Eremis.

 

 

I have never read any of his other books, no idea why, are they as good as Thomas Covenant? 

[Kalessin]

On 1/4/2023 at 7:14 AM, DojoToad said:

I did read the first trilogy years ago and only remember the one scene myself describing sexual violence.  IIRC it was brought up many times so that we could all remember what he did - as if forgetting a scene like that would be possible - especially back in the day...

 

On 1/4/2023 at 8:00 AM, Elder_Haman said:

It's more that the guilt, shame and unforeseen consequences of that act continue to haunt the character throughout the series.

Everybody in the series does something which they regret intensely. Sometimes it's just a minor detail; other times it comes back to haunt them. For example, Foamfollower, the Giant-friend of Thomas Covenant, uses some of the hurtloam to ease the death of a cavewight in the first book, with the consequence there isn't enough to heal the little boy who is one of the two survivors of an attack on a Tree-village. The boy has an ardent wish to see the Ranyhyn, the Horse-Lords who are themselves Horses and imbued with EarthPower, so they take him there. Since the boy was never healed, Lord Foul uses him to betray the Ranyhyn later.

 

In the second book, The Illearth War, Thomas Covenant's accidental daughter High Lord Elena seeks to attack Lord Foul by calling High Lord Kevin back from the dead and sending his to attack Lord Foul. This breaks the law sealing the dead off from the living, and consequently Lord Foul uses that in the third book, The Power That Preserves, to call back into a ghastly sort of life all the dead of the ages before, and also High Lord Elena to undo one of the spells holding his most vicious servants the Ravers from the Land.

 

It's a constant theme - fuguing off Tolkien's "Oft evil will shall evil mar", and transforming it into a major theme of fate.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Kalessin
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