Those Bloody Snakes!!

[FanofKnotai]

I’m re-reading the series for the umpteenth time and I’m on book 4. The Shadow Rising

Does anyone know what the Snakes meant when they told Mat “To die and live again, and live once more a part of what was!”…?

 

I get the “die and live again” part. Either rhuidean or caemlyn. But the “live once more a part of what was!” is confusing me. I can’t remember anything in any of the books that would fit. I must be forgetting something. Can someone remind me?

 

[Jaysen Gore]

I always took that to mean reliving the memories that he had stuffed in his head. Because he was only reliving parts of those lives, and it only started after Rhuidean, which is the first part of the foretelling. Plus he gets two more foretelling (Nine Moons, Light of the World) , so the first two have to be a single foretelling; otherwise he'd be getting 4, which was against the rules

[VooDooNut]

9 minutes ago, FanofKnotai said:

 

To die and live again

Spoiler

He presumably dies hanging on Avendesora and and then is revived by Rand. He also is mortally wounded by the Dark Hound, but Rand undoes this with balefire. He also is killed by Rahvin and then brought back to life by Rand's reversal of events with balefire. I thinks that's all of them. (Did I miss any?)

9 minutes ago, FanofKnotai said:

and live once more a part of what was!

Spoiler

He does "relive" the memories of the soldiers lives that are stuck in his head. I'd go as far as to say he lives out these moments in very much the same way the original men experienced them (though with less dying).

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by VooDooNut
spoiler fix, spelling

[Kalessin]

I've always taken "and live once more a part of what was!" to refer to his setting up (purely accidentally of course: we know Mat) the Band of the Red Hand, as an elite military formation. After all, it was Manetheren's elite military formation at the time of the Trolloc Wars, and he's replicated it near enough perfectly.

[Finnssss22]

 

On 12/20/2021 at 2:57 AM, Kalessin said:

I've always taken "and live once more a part of what was!" to refer to his setting up (purely accidentally of course: we know Mat) the Band of the Red Hand, as an elite military formation. After all, it was Manetheren's elite military formation at the time of the Trolloc Wars, and he's replicated it near enough perfectly.

 

Yeah, the Band of the Red Hand seems to be answer here and this is actually the key line in the theory that Mat is actually Aemon reborn and not just a blood descendent.

[Zax]

I think it means that he dies when the snakes hang him. 'To die and live again' VooDooNut explains it well. 

[rowdie]

Yes, I always thought of it as the memories, I never stretched it as far as the band, but see how that makes sense

[Finnssss22]

On 1/9/2022 at 2:24 AM, Zax said:

I think it means that he dies when the snakes hang him. 'To die and live again' VooDooNut explains it well. 

 

He didn't die when the snakes hung him though.

He died (breaking his link with the Horn) to Rahvin's lightnings at the end of tFoH, then returned to the living when Rand reversed everything by Balefiring the living crap outa Rahvin

Edited February 27, 2023 by Finnssss22

[DojoToad]

4 hours ago, Finnssss22 said:

 

He didn't die when the snakes hung him though.

He died (breaking his link with the Horn) to Rahvin's lightnings at the end of tFoH, then returned to the living when Rand reversed everything by Balefiring the living crap outa Rahvin

Maybe he died and lived again twice...  🤔

[Scarloc99]

On 12/19/2021 at 6:22 PM, Jaysen Gore said:

I always took that to mean reliving the memories that he had stuffed in his head. Because he was only reliving parts of those lives, and it only started after Rhuidean, which is the first part of the foretelling. Plus he gets two more foretelling (Nine Moons, Light of the World) , so the first two have to be a single foretelling; otherwise he'd be getting 4, which was against the rules

The snakes where forced to break there own rules and give him extra foretellings because there where 2 tavernean in the gateway. 

[Samt]

I think there are three events that get brought up as Matt coming back from the dead. 
 

First, Rahvin kills him and Rand Balefires Rahvin to reverse it. This is a confirmed “resurrection” since Matt is confirmed dead prior to the Balefire.

 

Second, the dark hounds are balefired after slobbering on Matt. Matt might have been dead, but it’s likely he was only mortally wounded and not dead yet. I think it’s unclear.

 

Third, Matt gets hung from the Ashandarei. I don’t think he was dead, because if he was he would be dead. There was no Balefire or other shenanigans to bring him back. Rand cuts him down and revives him, but logically this just means he was dying from the hanging but it hadn’t killed him yet.

[Scarloc99]

4 hours ago, Samt said:

I think there are three events that get brought up as Matt coming back from the dead. 
 

First, Rahvin kills him and Rand Balefires Rahvin to reverse it. This is a confirmed “resurrection” since Matt is confirmed dead prior to the Balefire.

 

Second, the dark hounds are balefired after slobbering on Matt. Matt might have been dead, but it’s likely he was only mortally wounded and not dead yet. I think it’s unclear.

 

Third, Matt gets hung from the Ashandarei. I don’t think he was dead, because if he was he would be dead. There was no Balefire or other shenanigans to bring him back. Rand cuts him down and revives him, but logically this just means he was dying from the hanging but it hadn’t killed him yet.

I agree when the dark hounds slobber over Mat he may not have long left to live but doesn’t actually die. 

[Sabio]

Finnssss22 is right, RJ and BS both confirmed the to die and live again was his getting blasted by Rhavin.  It was the one time he was truly dead.  Mat hadn't died from the slobber or hanging yet.

[Aan-Alone]

On 12/28/2021 at 5:58 AM, Finnssss22 said:

theory that Mat is actually Aemon reborn

If Mat was Aemon reborn, how do you account for Mat's extreme, some would say sensible, dislike/suspicion of AS? How do you account for Mat's OT outburst during the dagger-healing in the WT? He's pretty mean, too mean I would think were Mat channeling Aemon, so to speak.

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

Well we don't know that Aemon thought about Aes Sedai in general, only that he loved one specifically. 

 

And Mat for all his antipathy for the One Power also marries a woman that can channel. 

 

Maybe Aemon went around telling everyone "I'm no bloody King!" and he would dance with Amyrlin and maybe steal a kiss but he wasn't going to follow her light-blinded plans. We just don't know, and any story where the bravest man alive is married to the most beautiful woman alive I think can be regarded as lacking in factual substance. 

[Aan-Alone]

4 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Maybe Aemon went around telling everyone "I'm no bloody King!" and he would dance with Amyrlin and maybe steal a kiss but he wasn't going to follow her light-blinded plans.

Touche.

[Mommycara]

Actually, Mat dies twice, and it wasn’t during his hanging on the tree.  It was when Rand saved him with balefire, as confirmed by Amaresu in AMOL.

”I did die,” Mat said, rubbing at the scar on his neck.  “Apparently that tree claimed me.”

”Not the tree, Gambler,” Hawking said, “Another moment, one that you cannot remember.  It is fitting, as Lews Therin did save your life both times.”

”Remember him,” Amaresu snapped, “I have seen you murmur that you fear his madness, but all the while you forget that every breath you breathe — every step you take — comes at his forbearance.  Your life is a gift from the Dragon Reborn.  Twice over.”