tv show spoilers Darkfriends in WoT TV Series (and books by extension)

[KakitaOCU]

On 12/3/2021 at 8:46 PM, Harad the White said:

The Amazon series seems to point in that direction. In the Book, are you referring to the main male channelers, such as those in the BT, not the Forsaken? Being the martyrs of the Aiel is indicative, but does not directly speak to their character. Nevertheless, I'd like to believe it.

Seanchan Kill on Sight, Seafolk tie ballast stoines to them and throw them overboard.   Sharans keep them as mindless animals for breeding, Aiel send them on suicide missions against the Blight (Where we learn something worse happens).

All in all, cutting them off from the thing that drives them to madness and destruction and then letting them have a chance IS the kindest of the options seen.

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, KakitaOCU said:

All in all, cutting them off from the thing that drives them to madness and destruction and then letting them have a chance IS the kindest of the options seen.

"The kindest," reminds me of the Owyn story. Count me out of this "kindness."

[DaddyFinn]

On 12/2/2021 at 10:55 PM, fra85uk said:

Just to put some extra info:

In a podcast someone asked Rafe "Laila - Darkfriend?" and he immediately rejects the idea but then is curious as to what the actual theory is. Then the host tells him the fan theory about how it looks as if Laila is about to attack Perrin and how she apparently looks like someone who appears in a later book. To which Rafe responds "They are noticing things there that are worth noticing. That's all I can say!"

 

Helena Westerman and Sarah Nakamura have confirmed on Twitter that Laila is not a DF but was coming to aid Perrin

[Sabio]

8 hours ago, KakitaOCU said:

Seanchan Kill on Sight, Seafolk tie ballast stoines to them and throw them overboard.   Sharans keep them as mindless animals for breeding, Aiel send them on suicide missions against the Blight (Where we learn something worse happens).

All in all, cutting them off from the thing that drives them to madness and destruction and then letting them have a chance IS the kindest of the options seen.

Might be "kinder" in a sense, but after being gentled no one tries to help the person.  Owyn was gentled then just left at the mercy of his neighbors.  Logain was to be left at the WT until he died..  Not even the Yellows had any interest in studying a man who had been gentled.  They didn't understand why Nyn wanted to waste her time studying Logain.  Some might say it's kinder to just kill the man instead of gentling him and letting him just give up wanting to live.

[Harad the White]

After a long struggle, I disentangled information from dis-information on "Is Laila a DF?" This is directly addressed at ~1 hour 49 minutes, in:

 

https://www.theringer.com/2021/11/19/22792149/the-wheel-of-time-premiere-with-zach-baron-and-rafe-judkins

 

The interviewer asks RJ2 to comment on the fact that Perrin "turns and she has her axe up." He says, "They are noticing things that are worth noticing there." Moments earlier he denied she was a DF, so wtf? One theory, by Ann Elk, is that she is being controlled by a Forsaken. An earlier theory is that she just wants a divorce, and a Trolloc attack seemed a good opportunity. You decide.

[Sabio]

Unlikely a Forsaken had any part in this, a forsaken would of had to meet Laila in person to control her (To put compulsion on her etc).  So why not just balefire Perin instead?  If she was really trying to kill him my guess is she decided to "end" the marriage.  One can be a murderer and not A DF, so it might of been her way of asking for a divorce.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Sabio

[Harad the White]

11 minutes ago, Sabio said:

was really trying to kill him my guess is she decided to "end" the marriage.  One can be a murderer and not A DF, so it might of been her way of asking for a divorce.

So when RJ2 says, "They are noticing things that are worth noticing there," he means that he is introducing a plot point that Laila is a common murderess, and that plot point will pay off later for the audience? ?

[Sabio]

Could be it was just a thing they added to see if anyone would notice.  That is my guess anyway.  But if was a plot point it might be to make Perin not feel so bad about murdering his wife. But then how do you introduce that? Perin discovering his wife was unhappy with the marriage and was trying to use the trolloc attack to get a divorce.  So now he doesn't feel so gulity and accepts he loves Faile.

[DaddyFinn]

5 hours ago, Harad the White said:

After a long struggle, I disentangled information from dis-information on "Is Laila a DF?" This is directly addressed at ~1 hour 49 minutes, in:

 

https://www.theringer.com/2021/11/19/22792149/the-wheel-of-time-premiere-with-zach-baron-and-rafe-judkins

 

The interviewer asks RJ2 to comment on the fact that Perrin "turns and she has her axe up." He says, "They are noticing things that are worth noticing there." Moments earlier he denied she was a DF, so wtf? One theory, by Ann Elk, is that she is being controlled by a Forsaken. An earlier theory is that she just wants a divorce, and a Trolloc attack seemed a good opportunity. You decide.

 

I trust Helena and Sarah

[Harad the White]

2 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

I trust Helena and Sarah

There is no win here. If they insist that they didn't mean the scene to mean Laila was a DF,  but many see it that way, that implies it's unintentional.  Most importantly it doesn't explain the RJ2 quote, "They are noticing things that are worth noticing there." Who ya gonna believe, Helena and Sarah, or RJ2?

[DaddyFinn]

3 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

"They are noticing things that are worth noticing there."

This could be about something else than Laila being a DF

[Harad the White]

4 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

This could be about something else than Laila being a DF

For example, that she is being controlled by a Forsaken. 

People, may laugh, but it's a bit better than the only extant alternate explanation: she want's a divorce and the Trolloc raid was a great excuse.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Harad the White

[Theseus78]

12 hours ago, Harad the White said:

For example, that she is being controlled by a Forsaken. 

People, may laugh, but it's a bit better than the only extant alternate explanation: she want's a divorce and the Trolloc raid was a great excuse.

Or that while Laila wasn't a darkfriend, we should be on the lookout for small details like this about other people who may turn out to be darkfriends?

[Elder_Haman]

24 minutes ago, Theseus78 said:

Or that while Laila wasn't a darkfriend, we should be on the lookout for small details

Like the fact that she was holding a hammer? I think that's what we're meant to take away. But I guess we shall see.

[Harad the White]

31 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Like the fact that she was holding a hammer? I think that's what we're meant to take away. But I guess we shall see.

Anybody have a freeze-frame that proves that? My lying eyes haven't told me whether it's a hammer or axe. 

[aclund3]

Wondering what y'all think the repercussion could be for Perrin's (tv show) story arc if Rafe pulled a Taimandred and changed his mind about Laila being a darkfriend?  On a base level I see a chance for extra juicy story details, but I'm sure I haven't thought it all the way through...

[Vambram]

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

Like the fact that she was holding a hammer? I think that's what we're meant to take away. But I guess we shall see.

 

I am pretty sure that she was using a hammer to fight off the trollocs.

[Harad the White]

5 minutes ago, GanoesParan said:

 

I am pretty sure that she was using a hammer to fight off the trollocs.

Yes she was. Then a Trolloc picked her up and she dropped everything. Then she picked up another tool. In the sequence where she raises that second tool behind Perrin, I can't tell.

[Vambram]

I believe it was still a hammer, but it is indeed very difficult to say that for sure.

[DaddyFinn]

2 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Yes she was. Then a Trolloc picked her up and she dropped everything. Then she picked up another tool. In the sequence where she raises that second tool behind Perrin, I can't tell.

It's a (sledge)hammer

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, DaddyFinn said:

It's a (sledge)hammer

OK. That may be true. Is there a picture to show that?

[Harad the White]

2 minutes ago, GanoesParan said:

I believe it was still a hammer, but it is indeed very difficult to say that for sure.

Yes. Can that be the thing that RJ2 want people to pay attention to, if "it is indeed very difficult to say for sure"?

[Vambram]

1 minute ago, Harad the White said:

Yes. Can that be the thing that RJ2 want people to pay attention to, if "it is indeed very difficult to say for sure"?

 

Could be. 

[DaddyFinn]

1 minute ago, Harad the White said:

OK. That may be true. Is there a picture to show that?

There are screencaps but I couldn't find a good quality one right now.

 

[Vambram]

It is very difficult to see, but to me the head of that weapon looks like a sledgehammer.