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Let's speculate on what will be in season two!


Agitel
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My thoughts are not based on any rumors or comments from anyone. So don't fear. This is just me brainstorming what to expect from season two, and what we might expect from needing to finish the series in eight seasons. I'm interested to see your expectations, too. Let's try to make this hopeful but realistic, not just cynical. If you had the brief of adapting the series but only had eight seasons to do it, what might you do, considering you'll only have six more seasons after season two to cover the rest of the books?

 

I sincerely think we could see books two and three combined and condensed down into one set of plot arcs. For example, I don't think we'll see Falme as it happens in the books. I think the climax of S2 will be the Stone of Tear and Callandor. We might still see the Seanchan this season, but perhaps the Forerunners will be in (or near) Tear, not Falme, and events coalesce there.

 

I haven't thought through all of the little, specific details. But this reduces the major confrontations with Ba'alzamon, which I think could feel redundant, and set us up for the Aiel Wastes in season three.

 

What do you think? Maybe instead of my angle they'll stick closer to the early books and condense the back half instead.

 

I personally think the demands of time will require condensing on this level for some books in the series, even if I don't know exactly where.

Edited by Agitel
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1 minute ago, Agitel said:

I sincerely think we could see books two and three combined and condensed down into one set of plot arcs. For example, I don't think we'll see Falme as it happens in the books. I think the climax of S2 will be the Stone of Tear and Callandor. We might still see the Seanchan this season, but perhaps the Forerunners will be in (or near) Tear, not Falme, and events coalesce there.

Cutting Falme wasn't something I gave much thought to, but it does make sense as we never really see it again.


My original thought for S2 was.

E1-4 = Chasing Padan Fain, culminating in a mid-season Falme battle.

E5-8 = Moiraine/Perrin chasing Rand to Tear, Mat somehow just ending up there on a drunken bender of gambling. Culiminating in that battle.

However, if we cut Falme...

They have to work out how to get Rand/Perrin/Mat chasing Fain, possibly encounter the Seanchan, bring Mat back to the tower to meet the wonder girls, in time for him to escape to Andor and head back to Tear, while the wonder girls get kidnapped by Black Ajah, while Rand runs to Tear while Perrin & Moiraine try to track him, and end with Rand pulling the Sword, and killing Forsaken.

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32 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

However, if we cut Falme...

They have to work out how to get Rand/Perrin/Mat chasing Fain, possibly encounter the Seanchan, bring Mat back to the tower to meet the wonder girls, in time for him to escape to Andor and head back to Tear, while the wonder girls get kidnapped by Black Ajah, while Rand runs to Tear while Perrin & Moiraine try to track him, and end with Rand pulling the Sword, and killing Forsaken.

 

Combining it into one set of arcs instead of two slows down the pacing, so perhaps there would be more room to breathe. There are some obvious wrinkles and tangles to be worked out. Mat, perhaps, could be healed at Fal Dara at the beginning of S2 (or a relocation of where S2 starts). Or perhaps in the middle. I think you'd have to cut all or at least much of Rand going off entirely on his own. I know that was Rand doing something himself rather than be yanked about by the Pattern, but it may be necessary, and have Rand first really doing entirely his own thing when he goes to the Wastes. The tricky part for me is I'd still want to keep the Heroes of the Horn and Callandor. I suppose they could all hypothetically ride into Tear and participate in driving out the Seanchan. Rand rides in and breaks off to sneak into the Stone. The Aiel also happen to be there fighting the Seanchan. Or something like that. Rand and Ishy have a big fight. Might still be able to keep the flashing across the sky. 

 

I'm not sure what to do with Perrin here. My memories have gotten a little foggy. Probably get separated somehow. Travel with Moiraine maybe, meet Faile, wind up in Tear. It's not perfect.

 

Rather than have two books of pursuing the Black Ajah, you might be able to keep TGH largely intact for Egwene, Elayne, and Nynaeve. Just in Tear. Some tweaking to mix in some TDR elements. And then Elayne and Nynaeve continue to look for Black Ajah in S3 while Egwene goes with the Wise Ones.

 

Just brainstorming. I'm worried if they don't condense, and they do both TGH and TDR in a single season back to back (perhaps not a given?), they'll continue to have big pacing and structure issues.

 

I think S3, especially if they got 10 episodes. might be able to get away with doing TSR and most of FOH in a single season as separate arcs, with the fight in Rhuidean being like episode 5 or 6.

Edited by Agitel
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Hmm...

 

On pure speculation...but for overall structure I think it makes some sense.

 

- I see them cutting the White Tower trip to Fal Dara.  

- Keep the hunt for Fain.  

- If Rand meets Min in Fal Dara, I can see her accompanying him to Falme mostly because I can see them cutting Hurin and Min's abilities being  potentially useful.

- The girls trip to Falme being basically the same but having far more impact in setting up where I see the season ending.

- Falme happening around the mid-point of the season.

- A more direct path for Rand on his own from Falme to Tear.  

- Perrin meets Faile while they are chasing after Rand.

- The season ending with the Tower coup once Rand has taken the stone.

 

Bringing the Tower coup forward just makes a lot of sense to me.  It is a major major change but I think it works.

 

One thing that I would really like to see is Tam and Abell's visit to the WH so I am holding on to hope that we will.

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2 minutes ago, Agitel said:

I like the idea of ending S2 with the Tower coup. Have a short but long enough scene for the coup to end the season. S3 could have a cold open that recaps a bit more of what happened during the chaos.

I think that might bring it forward a bit too much.

You want to make the WT look like the stone in the river.
If it falls too early then it doesn't have as much impact. (It be like killing Joffrey after 2 episodes in GoT)

 

I think you can start sowing the sees of a coup in Season 2, but It should wait until Season 3 or 4, after the wastes & Egwene's return. Possibly make it the finale of S2 or S3?

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I could be completely wrong, but when I read on Amazon Prime WOT site that the serpent ring had a stone with the color of the Ajah I immidiatly got the impression that they have changed the Aes Sedai training. I think they have changed it to something like an appranticeship. So, I expect Egwene and Nynaeve to follow Moiraine. With no training in the Tower I agree with those who think Falme will be cut completely.

 

The 2nd season will probably end in Tear with a huge battle where both Aiel and Seanchen attack at the same time and the Black Ajah are there. Rand fights Ba'alzamon to get Callandor.

Edited by JoJ
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18 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

I think that might bring it forward a bit too much.

You want to make the WT look like the stone in the river.
If it falls too early then it doesn't have as much impact. (It be like killing Joffrey after 2 episodes in GoT)

 

Yes, it is rather aggressive. 😄

 

I do think you can make a strong thematic case for linking the Stone falling & the Tower breaking.   The dragon is proclaimed and that causes a mini-breaking of the Tower.  

 

But, it really depends on how many seasons we're going to get.   If they are still on track for 8 or 9 getting to the Tower coup early gives them the most flexibility in my mind. 

 

 

18 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

I think you can start sowing the sees of a coup in Season 2, but It should wait until Season 3 or 4, after the wastes & Egwene's return. Possibly make it the finale of S2 or S3?

 

A season 3 finale is possible.  I think S4 might be too far.  

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Assuming they end S1 with "We will meet again on Toman Head"

 

S2E1 - On the road from Fal Dara, portal stone split cliffhanger

S2E2 - Girls in TV, meet the Trakands, on the road with Selene and Ingtar. Learning to weave (colourization of Saidar?)

S2E3 - Murder in the WT, and the hunters released, Accepted Nynaeve. the Flame, the Void and the Grolm

S2E4 - Cairhien part 1, Thom, the hunters betrayed

S2E5 - Cairhien part 2, death of a king and a city burns...flicker, flicker, flicker...

S2E6 - Falme part 1, getting to know Tu, getting to know all about Tu...

S2E7 - Falme part 2, the Horn, a man in the sky, Lanfear revealed

S2E8 - The Camp of the Dragon, Rand sets off for Callandor. "He's gone" cliffhanger

 

My 0.02. Only real question I have is (rumor) if they leave Mat in TV in season 1, he's not really in a plot until the letter to Camelyn in TDR, so what's he doing in S2?  But he's in the Waygate picture from S1E6, so is Mat going to FD or not?

Edited by Jaysen Gore
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3 hours ago, JoJ said:

I could be completely wrong, but when I read on Amazon Prime WOT site that the serpent ring had a stone with the color of the Ajah I immidiatly got the impression that they have changed the Aes Sedai training. I think they have changed it to something like an appranticeship. So, I expect Egwene and Nynaeve to follow Moiraine. With no training in the Tower I agree with those who think Falme will be cut completely.

 

The 2nd season will probably end in Tear with a huge battle where both Aiel and Seanchen attack at the same time and the Black Ajah are there. Rand fights Ba'alzamon to get Callandor.

On the animated short for episode 1, you can see novices in the White Tower library. Rosamund Pike also made a comment that some women have rings with no stones on Amazon Live, which means they trained in the White Tower but did not advance far enough to be raised to Aes Sedai.

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7 minutes ago, Ryan al'Thor said:

The words cutting and Falme shkuld never be uttered. one of the best scenes in the entire series.

 

Do you think they should do both TGH and TDR back to back in S2 within 8 episodes? Or would you prefer S2 to be TGH and TDR (and maybe more) S3? Or some other re-arrangment. Expecting an 8 season run.

Edited by Agitel
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42 minutes ago, Ryan al'Thor said:

The words cutting and Falme shkuld never be uttered. one of the best scenes in the entire series.

It's similar to White Bridge, and Baerlon.

Locations we basically see once. I'd love to see them, but they were cut because we see them once.

If we got books 2-3 in S2, with a little bit of 4... Pacing wise we're at episode 3 right now.

I don't know in season 2, if they could fit all of Egwene/Elayne/Nynaeve's training at the tower, their super duper secret mission that leads to their capture by Seanchan, whatever Moiraine and Lan were up to while Rand, Mat, Perrin, Loial, Uno and a bunch of borderlanders chased Fain, used a portal stone, saw alien worlds, before blowing the horn and taking down the Seanchan. 

Then toss in Mat going back to the towers with the girls, getting healed, while Rand and company make their way to Tear, Mat escapes with Thom, meets the queen, Perrin meets Faile, Gaul, the spear sisters, Moiraine & Nynaeve blow crap up with balefire, the wonder girls get captured by the black Ajah in tear, before Mat blows a hole on the Stone with fireworks and rescues them all letting Rand get the sword and fight Ba'alzamon in a reality bending dream shard hopping fight that defies logic.

 

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I don't see how Falme and Tear could be combined without it being a total cluster ****

 

1. If they don't blow the horn, then there's no payoff for the Great Hunt and they'll have spent a whole season chasing a macguffin

2. If they do blow the horn, then the Aiel are made redundant and there's little room for Mat's rooftop heroics

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I have high hopes for some detective Verin sass in Season 2! I don't know if they've cast her yet, in my mind I always imagined her like Olivia Colman, although I doubt they will have someone that high-profile.

 

I also have high hopes for Falme (or wherever the battle happens) but mixed with some apprehension. A ghost army of heroes who are supposed to be recognizable except we've never seen them before and a battle in the sky are super cool on paper but might be really hard to pull off.

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Hmmm. I was thinking that they could skip Falme, and delay the Seanchan until Ebou Dar, but I'm really not sure the Bowl of the Winds makes it in, and without exploring the Damane, the leashing A'dam for Rand comes out of the blue. So we need the Seanchan earlier - maybe even a Daughter of the Nine Moons reference - in order to give urgency to the girls going to Ebou Dar for the A'dam.

 

One of the things I intended to do before this started was lay out a series plot beat curve for each of the major characters, but i didn't get to it.

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8 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

Hmmm. I was thinking that they could skip Falme, and delay the Seanchan until Ebou Dar, but I'm really not sure the Bowl of the Winds makes it in, and without exploring the Damane, the leashing A'dam for Rand comes out of the blue. So we need the Seanchan earlier - maybe even a Daughter of the Nine Moons reference - in order to give urgency to the girls going to Ebou Dar for the A'dam.

 

One of the things I intended to do before this started was lay out a series plot beat curve for each of the major characters, but i didn't get to it.

Skip Falme - does that mean no blowing of the horn?  Ouch!

 

I'd be all for skipping the bowl of the winds.  The search was exhausting (not as bad as Faile's captivity, but close).

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3 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Skip Falme - does that mean no blowing of the horn?  Ouch!

 

I'd be all for skipping the bowl of the winds.  The search was exhausting (not as bad as Faile's captivity, but close).

Yeah its tough, as we only have 8 episodes a season.

I think you can fit the Seanchan invasion without actually developing "Falme". You could have the Horn while skipping the wonder-girls kidnapping via the Seanchan.

The hard part is to not RUSH it too much.
You gotta include Mat getting cured, and the Mat/Galad/Gawyn fight, and his developing Luck while traveling to Tear with Thom.
Gotta have the Girls learning at the Tower while Mat's there, and then sending them south around the same time Mat takes off.

If they skip Fain stealing the dagger, you could send half to the tower, and half to battle the seanchan, but then we'd miss Mat blowin' the horn, which is just unforgivable. 

Now if we skip Falme entirely, send half of them chasing "Fain", the other half to the tower, have a tiny skermish with Seanchan, then they all make their way down to Tear, Mat could blow the horn while the seanchan invade, and Rand takes the stone, protecting it from the Seanchan.

 

oof.
I've got no good answer on how to fit Book 2 & 3 into Season 2.. o_o

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On 11/21/2021 at 11:18 AM, SinisterDeath said:

I think that might bring it forward a bit too much.

You want to make the WT look like the stone in the river.
If it falls too early then it doesn't have as much impact. (It be like killing Joffrey after 2 episodes in GoT)

 

I think you can start sowing the sees of a coup in Season 2, but It should wait until Season 3 or 4, after the wastes & Egwene's return. Possibly make it the finale of S2 or S3?

 

 

Agree. That would give no time for the girls hanging out in the WT and learning.

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Regardless of how they end up doing it, I really hope they leave in Egwene getting collared. It's one of the most shocking and horrific scenes in the series especially in the early third. It's way more interesting than getting taken by the Black Ajah. Without it, the Seanchan are very annoying but not as horrifying.

I'm probably repeating some of what has been said but if they combine seasons I feel this is what they need to cover:

 

  • I think season 2 will start in Fal Dara so there will be stuff there too (I think Elaida and Elayne will both be introduced in Fal Dara).
  • If I'm right on the above, then we'll need the attack. Maybe it will be done by the end of ep. 1.
  • There has to be time spent in the WT with Egwene, Nynaeve, and Elayne training and just being in the WT. They can make the boat ride sped up and just have them get there. If they are going to end up in Tear and never go back to the WT, they have to spend at least a couple episodes there.
  • Some time with Mat introducing the new actor.
  • Liandrin and the girls travel via the Ways to Tear which has been invaded by the Seanchan. Egwene gets collared and the others escape.
  • Rand and co hunt Fain who heads south to Tear. They show up and fight the Seanchan then Rand enters the Stone and takes callandor.

 

 

Or, Rafe banks on there being enough good stuff in tGH and doesn't feel he has to start making drastic cuts yet. The combining starts by making tDR content take up 4-6 episodes in season 3 and Rand ends up in the Aiel Waste and is done with Rhuidean by the end of season 3.

 

 

Edited by Deadsy
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1 hour ago, DojoToad said:

Skip Falme - does that mean no blowing of the horn?  Ouch!

 

I'd be all for skipping the bowl of the winds.  The search was exhausting (not as bad as Faile's captivity, but close).

Faile's Captivity I'm not worried about; I expect Dumai's Wells to take care of that

 

And this is the kind of plot cascade that can easily happen that makes me think the show runners already have the major plot beats for the entire series mapped out to determine what will and won't be cut (not pruned but lopped off like a Trolloc head:

Mat stays in TV and is healed of the dagger, therefore, the dagger isn't in FD to be stolen

Without the dagger, there's no reason for Rand to chase Fain to Falme; maybe he goes for the horn alone, but that conflicts with what he said in the book

The girls are kidnapped and sent to Falme. There's no one to save them

No one discovers the Seanchan until they sail into Ebou Dar

 

So that's why I think we get tGH relatively untouched. The season 3 compression will happen with 3/4, with something like the Season three cliff hanger being with Couladin  revealed as the Car'a'carn

Edited by Jaysen Gore
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