How did the show hold up for you?

[Skipp]

32 minutes ago, Ajimbura said:

 

Regarding the portraying of men you miss the point entirely.

It's not about acts of violence that makes the men.

Does the men act like men do?

Whomever is the writer don't really know.

Where were the men in the attack of the village?

Does Lan act like the character in the books?

Does Morraine treat Lan as the character in the books?

Top of all, does the books portray men and women like this or is "the message" injected into the series?

 

Just the first sentance out of Morraine says that the men are guilty of the taint due to their arrogance.

Not sure how book-spoilers are done here in this thread but lets say that this is far from the books.

 

Others have written more examples, so I'll stop there.

 

Yes the men in the show act like men do.  If you care to refute that please provide examples of men in the show not acting like men.

You can see men in the backgrounds fighting Trollocs, it is never the focus but there is some.  Perrin is a man and he fights back against the Trollocs.

Lan does act like he does in the books, less so than the first book because in the first book we only see Lan from the PoV of Rand and Nynaeve(very shortly).  But Lan is allowed to be more relaxed when around Moiraine and other warders.

Moiraine treats Lan with not but respect in the show aside from them trading friendly barbs with each other.

 

Moiraine's first sentence condems LTT and the 100 companions for their arrogance.  Right or wrong what they did caused the breaking.  Ultimately those Aes Sedai still alive afterwards would write the histories and saying LTT was arrogrant matches directly with how LTT describes himself in Rand's head.  Say it with me "THIS WAS NOT A JUDGEMENT ON ALL MEN "

[Ajimbura]

2 hours ago, Skipp said:

Yes the men in the show act like men do.  If you care to refute that please provide examples of men in the show not acting like men.

You can see men in the backgrounds fighting Trollocs, it is never the focus but there is some.  Perrin is a man and he fights back against the Trollocs.

Lan does act like he does in the books, less so than the first book because in the first book we only see Lan from the PoV of Rand and Nynaeve(very shortly).  But Lan is allowed to be more relaxed when around Moiraine and other warders.

Moiraine treats Lan with not but respect in the show aside from them trading friendly barbs with each other.

 

Moiraine's first sentence condems LTT and the 100 companions for their arrogance.  Right or wrong what they did caused the breaking.  Ultimately those Aes Sedai still alive afterwards would write the histories and saying LTT was arrogrant matches directly with how LTT describes himself in Rand's head.  Say it with me "THIS WAS NOT A JUDGEMENT ON ALL MEN "

 

I'll just recommend you to check the review by "Disparu" on YT of episode 1, it's by far the quickest way.

So I'll concede the Lan/Morraine point to you based on interpretation and Disparu agree with you with a twist, don't 100% agree but fair enough.

 

In regard to the arrogance, and since you've already gone the spoiler way.

 

****Contains possible spoilers****

 

Yes the companions caused, as per the dark ones counter strike, to cause the breaking.

Is that arrogance or is it the last resort to imprison the dark one that didn't go as expected?

As far as I can remember it was never described as arrogance by Morraine and there was no explanation to why the women didn't involve themselves in sealing the bore.

Beyond that they didn't agree that it was the best solution, there was no counter proposal described AFAIK.

If it was a Red sister that described the event as such, then it would be more accurate IMO based on their bias towards men. But Morraine is blue which actually matters.

 

Could be wrong, haven't read the books in about a year but can't pull out a memory that Morraine actually states this or that her persona believes this to be true.

Can't either remember this to be the normal view within the White Tower as a whole or in the various discussions between Aes Sedai, novices and accepted.

That they agreed that the men/companions caused it as an effect of their attempt to seal the bore is clearly described in the books.

 

If we are going to go by stuff that haven't happened yet (your LTT description) at the time Rand also knew who Mierin was and what she did in this sequence of events.

So from the protagonist point of view you would have both those views at the same time.

Meaning both LTTs view and Rand's "own" memory from Rhuidean.

None of that information were available to the Aes Sedai though, so to invoke either of those views would be pointless in regard to the arrogance statement by Morraine in the TV-show.

Unless someone can point me to a chapter in the books were she and the blue states this.

 

Say it with me "THIS WAS NOT A JUDGEMENT ON ALL MEN "

 

I never said it was a judgement of all men statement, don't put words in my mouth and expand a pattern to a literal statement.

It's a narrative pattern with all the other changes they've made, to characters and story.

You don't have to explicitly say, MEN ARE BAD, to convey that message, all tough it's borderline with this TV-show.

 

Mat's character, thief and compulsive gambler.

Perrin is partying while his wife (that he never had) is working in the smithy, he later kills this wife, I guess that's not good.

The village counsel, I guess it was not so important to have some equality in Emond's Field.

Mat's parents, a no good womanizer father and the mother as a victim of this fathers actions/character.

Egwene/Rand, they basically mess up both characters character, so I guess they were equal...doh.

Do I need to go on?

 

Anyway, this is the last I'll comment about this.

If you are more interested in what crap like this cause in movies and series I'll recommend you to watch "The Critical Drinker" on YT.

He is a writer himself (he hasn't reviewed WoT) and gives good examples on why this kind of narratives are bad for the stories and why they don't work.

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Ajimbura

[oddjob1138]

On 11/19/2021 at 10:45 AM, flinn said:

 I will give it a 6 out of 10 at this point. Good enough to continue watching, not good enough to recommend to family and friends yet. Hopefully it gets better.

Near 30 year fan and I feel the same.  

[Sabio]

5 out of 10, good not great.  I look forward to each episode, and usually like it but also disappointed in the episode.  I haven't seen an episode yet that has made we want to stop watching but I haven't had the strong urge to go back and rewatch an episode yet.

[PerrinsShadow]

Okay so I went back and watched it again. I intentionally tried to disassociate the show from the books and watched it for its own storyline. 

  Doing so I can say if I had no idea about the books I would be a huge fan of this series. I have a clear view of the direction each character is currently headed. It feels like you will see a complete world once this is complete. Not an easy task to visually accomplish. 

   I was upset over over RJ's vision being destroyed, then I remembered (thanks to someone mentioning it) RJ sold the WoT and on top of that he was going to destroy the notes so his books would never be completed...

  Yeah I am over it now and just want to see this turn out well, it is hard to find any good Sci-fi or Fantasy content.  

[csmoptop]

I just watched ep 6. Every episode is worse and worse. I can't stand any of the characters except for Lan and maybe Loial and possibly Egwene. Stuff just keeps getting dropped with no context. In the show, what's the Eye of The World to which they are doing? I have no idea, nor do I care. The whole thing is creepy and disturbing. Hollywood has killed yet another classic. 

[fitzwell]

This thread was started with epi 1-3.  I wonder what the vote/poll would be like today as the show slowly goes more and more out of book context.  Maybe we wait until the end of the season and revote?

[PerrinsShadow]

30 minutes ago, csmoptop said:

I just watched ep 6. Every episode is worse and worse. I can't stand any of the characters except for Lan and maybe Loial and possibly Egwene. Stuff just keeps getting dropped with no context. In the show, what's the Eye of The World to which they are doing? I have no idea, nor do I care. The whole thing is creepy and disturbing. Hollywood has killed yet another classic. 

 

[PerrinsShadow]

5 minutes ago, PerrinsShadow said:

 

To CSMOPTOP The Eye of the World is the conclusion of the 1st book. I don't know maybe you picked up the series after book one. But it is a major event in the series... I mean the 1st book was name Eye of the World... I for one am glad Race has not written it out or is planning to gloss over it. 

   

Edited December 12, 2021 by PerrinsShadow

[csmoptop]

54 minutes ago, PerrinsShadow said:

58 minutes ago, PerrinsShadow said:

 

To CSMOPTOP The Eye of the World is the conclusion of the 1st book. I don't know maybe you picked up the series after book one. But it is a major event in the series... I mean the 1st book was name Eye of the World... I for one am glad Race has not written it out or is planning to gloss over it. 

I think you misunderstood me. I know what The Eye of the World is from having read the prequel and all 14 main books several times over the years. In the series, however, the concept of the eye of the world is just dropped into the last couple minutes of episode 6 with no set up, no dreams to foreshadow the concept. In the context of the series, it means nothing and there is no investment or sense of urgency or drama or suspense. Just, we have to go to this thing, whatever and where ever it is, and like, save the world. It's just one example of many of how badly done this series is. It's a travesty. So much has been sacrificed. The story has been minced up, culled to almost nothing and stitched back together with poor quality, irrelevant, wholesale fabrications to serve an agenda. Just tragic.

[Ralph]

59 minutes ago, csmoptop said:

I think you misunderstood me. I know what The Eye of the World is from having read the prequel and all 14 main books several times over the years. In the series, however, the concept of the eye of the world is just dropped into the last couple minutes of episode 6 with no set up, no dreams to foreshadow the concept

 

Just like in the book, you mean? 

[Elder_Haman]

8 hours ago, csmoptop said:

In the show, what's the Eye of The World to which they are doing?

Did you know what it was at this point in the books?

[DojoToad]

6 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Did you know what it was at this point in the books?

I did not know until they got there

[Gothic Flame]

8 hours ago, PerrinsShadow said:

The Eye of the World is the conclusion of the 1st book.

Seems to me there was hope that it'd conclude the season. 

[Elder_Haman]

6 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

I did not know until they got there

I frankly didn’t really understand what happened at the Eye until my 3rd read. And honestly, the reasons for them going felt just as contrived in the books as they do in the show. 
 

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, Gothic Flame said:

Seems to me there was hope that it'd conclude the season. 

The last episode is titled “The Eye of the World”. So, fair bet that it will. 

[Gothic Flame]

Just now, Elder_Haman said:

The last episode is titled “The Eye of the World”. So, fair bet that it will. 

With two shows to go? Hmm...

[DojoToad]

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

I frankly didn’t really understand what happened at the Eye until my 3rd read. And honestly, the reasons for them going felt just as contrived in the books as they do in the show. 
 

Yes, happened real fast in the books too. I only ‘believe’ the book version more because Moiraine didn’t have WT resources available to her. Seems they could have had a better crew leaving from WT in the show

[Ralph]

3 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Yes, happened real fast in the books too. I only ‘believe’ the book version more because Moiraine didn’t have WT resources available to her. Seems they could have had a better crew leaving from WT in the show

But anyone else going will die apparently. Though not sure what they think will happen to Moiraine and Lan

Edited December 12, 2021 by Ralph

[Elder_Haman]

2 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Yes, happened real fast in the books too. I only ‘believe’ the book version more because Moiraine didn’t have WT resources available to her. Seems they could have had a better crew leaving from WT in the show

It’s obvious that Siuan and Moiraine have a serious misunderstanding about the DO and the nature of his plans. It seems fairly clear they are being lured into a trap. 
 

What they are doing is a ridiculously risky move - almost to the point of being foolish (so I hope to get more information about how they settled on this plan). Given that, it makes sense that they would want to keep their intentions secret. 

[TheDreadReader]

37 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

It’s obvious that Siuan and Moiraine have a serious misunderstanding about the DO and the nature of his plans. It seems fairly clear they are being lured into a trap. 
 

 

I think the show might be reducing the number of seals on the bore down to a single one symbolized by the Eye of The World.   That would have an obvious impact on Egwene's later storyline but it would make some sense as a simplification.   The seals are seemingly important early, then we don't hear a lot about them for several books, and then they are suddenly very important again.  

 

Their dialogue might make a little more sense when taken in that light.   Their hoped for end might be that the seal holds because of the Dragon being there (story over) but readers and viewers can obviously expect that not to be the case.

 

37 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

What they are doing is a ridiculously risky move - almost to the point of being foolish (so I hope to get more information about how they settled on this plan). Given that, it makes sense that they would want to keep their intentions secret. 

 

To me it amounts to mounting a first strike and they can always be risky but it does make a certain kind of sense in the current world that we live in.

 

It is also a decision that the writers made out of a few available options.   If we move past the this-is-the-book and this-is-the-show, the writers had at least one other option available to them. 

 

The shienarians could have easily sent word to the Tower that a trolloc army was massing at the Gap, asked for assistance from the Tower, and that could be used as a motivation to send them to Fal Dara.  Given that we've already had the tale of one nation lost to the shadow (Manetheren) and we have the uncrowned king of another (Malkier), they may have missed an opportunity to set up Lan's backstory in a cool way.

 

It wouldn't have taken much given how they structured episode 6.  Add a line about Tarwin's Gap in the steam bath scene.  Add a line in the Hall of Servants scene.  Have Siuan say that because of the political problems in the Tower, she can't get the Hall to agree to send Sisters to Fal Dara.  And, you've got an pretty easy justification for them to race up to Fal Dara.   You could even keep the dream logic in as a way to enhance the argument for going.  

 

This is one of those events in the book that I've spent a lot of time thinking about because I almost stopped reading TEOTW during my first read over this decision because it felt so rushed and seemingly dumb.

 

 

 

 

[Sabio]

4 hours ago, Gothic Flame said:

With two shows to go? Hmm...

I assume the next episode will be mostly Ways and Fal Dara centered, maybe at the end they leave for the blight.

[Ralph]

6 minutes ago, Sabio said:

I assume the next episode will be mostly Ways and Fal Dara centered, maybe at the end they leave for the blight.

The BtS costumes clip shows a map with them travelling to FD and then north, so I think it is clear

[csmoptop]

In books 1 and 2, there were several dreams where the dark one says to Rand, Mat and Perrin, the Eye of the World will not serve you, implying it's some tool, object or person of great power; and that he will destroy the Eye. And the Travelling People in book 1 and one other person (can't remember who at the moment) relate the statements of Aiel who told them that Sightblinder means to destroy the Eye of the World. So there is plenty of foreshadowing about the Eye. In the show, it's just dropped. Lots of time for many other unnecessary and often disturbing scenes and tangents, but no time to build a foundation for the major conflict, grand finale and entire reason for the first book.
And, as a side note, if they need production personnel interviews and Amazon website xrays to explain things in the show, they're not doing it right.

[Ralph]

2 minutes ago, csmoptop said:

In books 1 and 2, there were several dreams where the dark one says to Rand, Mat and Perrin, the Eye of the World will not serve you, implying it's some tool, object or person of great power; and that he will destroy the Eye. And the Travelling People in book 1 and one other person (can't remember who at the moment) relate the statements of Aiel who told them that Sightblinder means to destroy the Eye of the World. So there is plenty of foreshadowing about the Eye. In the show, it's just dropped. Lots of time for many other unnecessary and often disturbing scenes and tangents, but no time to build a foundation for the major conflict, grand finale and entire reason for the first book.
And, as a side note, if they need production personnel interviews and Amazon website xrays to explain things in the show, they're not doing it right.

Book 2 def not

 

I think only once in book 1, agreed besides Aiel and Jain

 

I plan to look a bit later to confirm. If you have chapter numbers of where it appears, please send

 

But despite all this, I personally always found the Eye very out of the blue in the book, and I think many think so also