full book spoilers Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers)

[Harad the White]

3 minutes ago, Ralph said:

if we divide thw while episode into separate scenes, and each scene had its own thread. It would be a lot, but it could compartmentalise the discussion at make it much clearer. 

Some other forums have made replies and replies to replies separate collapsed threads. That doesn't seem to be a feature here, leading to this free-for-all.

[Maximillion]

Just now, Elendir said:

Good work @Maximillion. You pretty much destroyed all your validity about plot holes by reasoning about "where Trollocs disappeared?". It is not hard to find answer on this question, no matter if you base on a book or TV series.

 

Is that right - where did they go then? Forget the book.

[Ralph]

22 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

That's a dangerous explanation. It jumps into the morass of free-will vs. predestination. If the pattern rules, then Moiraine can take a vacation and all will be well. Other than that, right on!

 

I'm not sure this is an issue

 

Canonically the Dragon can be coopted by the Dark One. The Pattern allows this. Moiraine's mission is to get to him (in book) before the Dark One does. 

 

Since she thinks gentling can't be Healed she would assume that person can't be the Dragon 

[Agitel]

This train feels like it's about to shake itself off the rails... And I have my part in that.

 

I'm getting antsy for episode four. Does that drop at midnight GMT internationally? Or will it be staggered depending on where you live?

[Elendir]

1 minute ago, Maximillion said:

 

Is that right - where did they go then? Forget the book.

 

You want to tell me, that you really need help with this answer?

[Agitel]

Just now, Ralph said:

 

I'm not sure this is an issue

 

Canonically the Dragon can be coopted by the Dark One. The Pattern allows this. Moiraine's mission is to get to him (in book) before the Dark One does. 

 

Since she thinks gentling can't be Healed she would assume that person can't be the Dragon 

 

In the books, if I remember right, Moiraine chastised Rand for assuming that just because something was in the prophecies it was certain, and that the prophecies were the way things needed to happen if he were to win, but that he could still die and not do any of them.

[Maximillion]

1 minute ago, Elendir said:

 

You want to tell me, that you really need help with this answer?

 

No I need the help from you to answer. where did they go?

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Maximillion

[Ralph]

Can I just add to the previous 43 pages how delighted I am that we are having all the discussions about where the show is heading. I missed all the wotmania wotfaq etc, and only came across it all years later, so I am hoping this will become another iteration (turn of the Wheel??) of that

[swollymammoth]

5 minutes ago, Ralph said:

the xray info on ep3 says wisdoms had to be skilled trackers.

I mean, I'm already crazy, I guess, but this is the sort of thing which drives me insane. 

 

Why on earth would a town's medicine woman have to be a skilled tracker? What logic could have possibly informed that decision other than "we need a way to explain how Nyneave tracks Lan." Except, that explanation was already in the books! Wasn't it that her dad taught her? They could have used that detail and just... didn't... for some reason... 

 

This isn't a big deal. It's not even a small deal. However, it does tell us something about the showrunners. They literally don't give an F. They will change literally anything with no rhyme or reason at all. It just makes me want to pull my hair out. It's like they're so insecure that they have to make sure their fingerprints are on literally everything. 

[Ralph]

1 minute ago, swollymammoth said:

I mean, I'm already crazy, I guess, but this is the sort of thing which drives me insane. 

 

Why on earth would a town's medicine woman have to be a skilled tracker? What logic could have possibly informed that decision other than "we need a way to explain how Nyneave tracks Lan." Except, that explanation was already in the books! Wasn't it that her dad taught her? They could have used that detail and just... didn't... for some reason... 

 

This isn't a big deal. It's not even a small deal. However, it does tell us something about the showrunners. They literally don't give an F. They will change literally anything with no rhyme or reason at all. It just makes me want to pull my hair out. It's like they're so insecure that they have to make sure their fingerprints are on literally everything. 

Maybe read it? 

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, Ralph said:

Since she thinks gentling can't be Healed she would assume that person can't be the Dragon

She's wrong about that in the Book. Anyway Moiraine's gotta do what Moiraine does, so she doesn't follow the Red Ajah around protecting every victim on their list.

[Elendir]

4 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

 

No I need the help from you to answer. where did they go?

 

You looked like somebody, who know better then series producer and yet, you dont know answer for questions:
1. Who Do Trolloc go after?
2. Where is who Trolloc go after?
3. With crossing of what, have Trollos problem?

[Harad the White]

8 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

No I need the help from you to answer. where did they go?

 

In the Book and the Amazon the Trollocs and General Trolloc are afraid of Shadar Logoth as they should be. Therefore they don't follow the party to the outskirts and in.

[swollymammoth]

4 minutes ago, Ralph said:

Maybe read it? 

Eh. I might. But "Nynaeve can track because all wisdoms can track" is just plain worse than "Nynaeve can track because her father taught her because he never had a son who he could teach instead." 

 

The second one tells us about her relationship with her father and informs us about her and her life. The first is just a random worldbuilding titbit (did you know it's not tidbit? Crazy). And they changed/added this... why? Not interested in in-universe justifications. I just do not believe that any of the writers could give an answer other than, "Because we could." 

[DaddyFinn]

33 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

 

...

More to the point, there would be a mark on Morraine's finger where she wore her ring, but apparently that  was not their either or Valda is not smart enough to spot when someone has removed a ring.

 

 

I'm pretty sure Valda checked her fingers. If he noticed the mark why would he take some action on it? Is he suicidal? No.

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, NightWolf said:

 

There isn't one comment posted on dragonmount the internet where a genuine reply resembles: "Oh Light, you were totally correct - I absolutely see your point and you've completely changed my mind!" 

 

Fixed that for you

[Harad the White]

2 minutes ago, NightWolf said:

There isn't one comment posted on dragonmount where a genuine reply resembles: "Oh Light, you were totally correct - I absolutely see your point and you've completely changed my mind!

Oh Light, you were totally correct - I absolutely see your point and you've completely changed my mind!

[Maximillion]

1 minute ago, Elendir said:

You looked like somebody, who know better then series producer and yet, you dont know answer for questions:
1. Who Do Trolloc go after?
2. Where is who Trolloc go after?
3. With crossing of what, have Trollos problem?

 

The Trollocs and Fade did not know how the group was split and yet decided to vacate completely the area that the whole group went in?

That Fade is a bit dumb it seems.

 

Like everything else - sure you can explain some scenario - but what was presented on screen was a head scratcher and never even addressed.  Just...gone.

 

 

 

 

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, Maximillion said:

The Trollocs and Fade did not know how the group was split and yet decided to vacate completely the area that the whole group went in?

That Fade is a bit dumb it seems.

They rightfully felt the party were goners.

[Maximillion]

2 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

In the Book and the Amazon the Trollocs and General Trolloc are afraid of Shadar Logoth as they should be. Therefore they don't follow the party to the outskirts and in.

 

In the TV series they do follow them to the outskirts and wait at the very entrance the party went in.

The same one Morraine and Lan came out - with nary a Trolloc in sight to guard the entrance.

What happened?  They just wandered off?  Oh well, we've lost them.

[DaddyFinn]

12 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

However, it does tell us something about the showrunners. They literally don't give an F. They will change literally anything with no rhyme or reason at all. It just makes me want to pull my hair out. It's like they're so insecure that they have to make sure their fingerprints are on literally everything. 

All of your issues with the show boil down to your opinion of Rafe. That's a shame.

[MasterAblar]

While I obviously would have prefered if the trollocs had entered the city and forced the party to flee, there may well be pragmatic reasons why it was difficult to do that for the show. Every second counts so again if people feel something should have been added you need to think of what should have been removed and how that would have affected the show.

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, Maximillion said:

In the TV series they do follow them to the outskirts and wait at the very entrance the party went in.

The same one Morraine and Lan came out - with nary a Trolloc in sight to guard the entrance.

What happened?  They just wandered off?  Oh well, we've lost them.

They thought they were goners. How much time outside elapsed when they were inside. You're a smart human, why don't you tell us.

[Maximillion]

3 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

They rightfully felt the party were goners.

 

I see, so the old 'probably dead, let's stop our only task in life' routine.

Back in the Blight by sundown.

You think TV viewers would assume that?

Anyway, it was given as just one more example of the scenes not knitting together very well that is all about the show and nothing to do with the books.

 

 

 

[Harad the White]

Just now, MasterAblar said:

While I obviously would have prefered if the trollocs had entered the city and forced the party to flee,

Good criticism of the Book.