full book spoilers Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers)

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, Agitel said:

mean, the world (in the series) has no control about what sex the Dragon is reborn as.

Yey. I hope we can now move on to other issues. For example, how much Saidar fits on the head of a pin? ?

[Starganderfish]

1 minute ago, Gothic Flame said:

Books are clear that the Dragon is always a dude.

But the show needs to be "modern" so apprently in can be a chick instead... however much that damages teh entire narrative,

[Gothic Flame]

1 minute ago, Starganderfish said:

But the show needs to be "modern" so apprently in can be a chick instead... however much that damages teh entire narrative,

If this show ever reaches the point of the black tower, I have to wonder if we'll get to "males are stronger in the One Power. Which is offset by women can link."

[flinn]

 It really doesnt matter anyway. Rand is going to be the dragon so the whole gender thing is really a moot point.

[Starganderfish]

2 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

I don’t remember if it was actually confirmed but there was definitely talk  from the Forsaken of how lucky Lews Therin was, which is definitely reminiscent of ta’veren
 

It's never stated directly that LTT was T'averren, but Loial said "Artur Hawkwing was ta'veren. So was Lews Therin Kinslayer, for that matter, I suppose.".

]There are also multple references to Rand being the strongest T'averren since the AoL, suggesting that there was at least one as strong around that time,, and it almost has to be LTT (or maybe Mierin? Freeing the Drak one totally seems like something T'averren-ish. Remember its not always good!!)
Also, Jordan stated that T'avereen-hood comes and goes as needed. You can be a T'averren for a little while or for a long while. LTT would almost certainly have been a T'Averren at some point in the war of Power and almost definitely at the Sealing of the Bore. 

[Harad the White]

2 minutes ago, Starganderfish said:

But the show needs to be "modern" so apprently in can be a chick instead... however much that damages teh entire narrative,

Ok. Now my second point that it doesn't "damage" the narrative. It changes it. The Dragon powers that don't exist, according to someone, are gender neutral. The Saidar and Saidin story has to be changed but so what? It was hokey to begin with since the power was the same so why should one be tainted? Anyway that's gone in Amazon. Please cancel my lifetime subscription.

[Agitel]

2 minutes ago, Starganderfish said:

I wonder if we'll get the Karatheon cycle and the prophecies of the Dragon, or just vague legends and myths?

 

There hasn't been a whole lot of in depth characterisation, and a lot of its kind of shallow (Perrin Fridged his wife, Matts a thief and from an abusive home, Rand and Egwne are boning but they're not, Nynaeve aint from around here and is like 25 but also a village elder and apparently a ninja?...)
Plus non-book fans have a lot of info-dumping to deal with and not a lot of explanation. T'averren, One Power (which has two parts), Dragons and Trollocs and Shadar Logoth that was Aridhol but failed Manetheren in the Trolloc wors, which is different to Artur Hawkwings war... there's a lot going on and a lot hasn't been very well explained. 

 

Mat cons his way out of work and flirts with ladies. He's willing to do bad things, to a point, to provide for those he loves. And willing to run into danger for them.

 

Rand wants none of this. He just wants a family and a life in the Two Rivers. He's stubborn, a bit hot headed, but also not willing to abandon his friends. He is also honest.

 

Perrin, admittedly, is a bit harder to easily describe by episode three, as He's spent a lot of it in shock and grieving. He's quiet, introspective, but also shown to be protective of Egwene. But there's less there at this point.

 

Nynaeve is defensive, but also fiercely protective of the other EF. Hot headed. But when in danger she puts herself in front of Egwene to shield her, and even during the chaos of Winternight she was trying to help others, get them to safety, and keep them alive.

 

Egwene might also have a little less to go on at this point, but she's ambitious, and with the opportunity to do more than just have a farm arises, she doesn't hesitate too much before pursuing it. And when she learns she could be Aes Sedai, we see her continue that trend. But we don't see this as a negative trait, she's not malicious in any way about it.

 

These are distinctive things beyond just the events.

[Starganderfish]

1 minute ago, flinn said:

 It really doesnt matter anyway. Rand is going to be the dragon so the whole gender thing is really a moot point.

Which makes it even more stupid. So much of the underlying story is dependant on the Dragon always being male and tainted Saidin both saving and breaking the world. Abandoning that for a throw-away line and a gimmick of a couple of episodes, it;s just dumb.

[Agitel]

10 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

Books are clear that the Dragon is always a dude.

 

I edited a little bit ago to be clear I meant the TV series.

[MasterAblar]

2 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

If this show ever reaches the point of the black tower, I have to wonder if we'll get to "males are stronger in the One Power. Which is offset by women can link."

 
Hard to say. There’s a lot of intricacies when it comes to the One Power and the differences between men and women. I don’t see how they can possibly get rid of the fact that women can link and men can’t. So you could explain that men have a higher potential strength but then you have to point out that deftness in weaving matters as well, and the differences in the elements and so on and so forth.

[Gothic Flame]

4 minutes ago, flinn said:

 It really doesnt matter anyway. Rand is going to be the dragon so the whole gender thing is really a moot point.

If gender doesn't matter males shouldn't worry about going mad.

Hell, the red sisters would be out of a job.

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, Starganderfish said:

Abandoning that for a throw-away line and a gimmick of a couple of episodes, it;s just dumb.

Disagree. This simplifies the story in an acceptable way.

[Starganderfish]

2 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Ok. Now my second point that it doesn't "damage" the narrative. It changes it. The Dragon powers that don't exist, according to someone, are gender neutral. The Saidar and Saidin story has to be changed but so what? It was hokey to begin with since the power was the same so why should one be tainted? Anyway that's gone in Amazon. Please cancel my lifetime subscription.

What? The powers aren;t the same, they're diametrically opposed - surrender versus domination. The temnsion between the two sides of the power is what turns the wheel. The dichotomy is inherent to the very structure of teh narrative. It's why the gender dynamics in the workd are so different, why the Aes Sedai are so powerful and men are so feared. One is tainted because an arrogant man tried to ave the world without the help of women and the consequences Broke the world.  At some point, when you change the fundamental mythos of teh tale, you're not telling the same story anymore. 

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, Harad the White said:

Disagree. This simplifies the story in an acceptable way.

Not gonna lie, based on this thread and all the potential plot holes being brought up, it doesn’t really feel like simplifying things ?

[JenniferL]

Yeah, I’m curious how far they’ve thought this through. It’s a pretty big change to the rules and as many have pointed out, it has big implications later on. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by JenniferL
Clarifying what I meant.

[Joe B]

1 hour ago, Harad the White said:

O Lord, stop me before I nitpick again.

In the borderlands, they have a saying...The look of the Noseless is fear.

[Gothic Flame]

1 minute ago, MasterAblar said:

Not gonna lie, based on this thread and all the potential plot holes being brought up, it doesn’t really feel like simplifying things ?

As I touched on earlier, continuity errors are likely for not adhering to the source material. I won't be surprised to hear that entire narratives will be created to justify whatever story they're trying to sell. 

[Harad the White]

2 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Not gonna lie, based on this thread and all the potential plot holes being brought up, it doesn’t really feel like simplifying things ?

Ok, here's how. It the two powers are the same then the "fight" is between good and evil, not between male and female, as Starganderfish, correctly states for the book. The book is too complex to adequately portray, except perhaps in 1400 episodes. Hopefully, this pared down fight will still be infotaining.

[Akragard]

5 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Ok, here's how. It the two powers are the same then the "fight" is between good and evil, not between male and female, as Starganderfish, correctly states for the book. The book is too complex to adequately portray, except perhaps in 1400 episodes. Hopefully, this pared down fight will still be infotaining.

That would hold with the comment that Liandrin made about men 'making it filthy'.  The men are tainting it with toxic masculinity.  Hence why the Reds need to hunt down and gentle them.  They are polluting the pool.

 

We've done good work here.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Akragard

[Harad the White]

And, btw, there is still a way to distinguish the powers if they want. The DR is either male or female. Perhaps the vessel of the power changes its nature accordingly.

[Harad the White]

5 minutes ago, Akragard said:

That would hold with the comment that Liandrin made about men 'making it filthy'.  Then men would be taint it with toxic masculinity.  Hence why the reds n

Yes!

[ArrylT]

On 11/19/2021 at 2:39 PM, Apoc81 said:

Also, I know this is really shallow, but the mole on Egwene's nose is extremely distracting on screen. I totally get it's not the actresses fault, and I actually think she's an excellent actress, but it just immediately draws my attention, every scene she's in.

 

Someone earlier in a different thread said beauty is in the eye of the beholder.   I did not notice the mole in the first 2 episodes until someone mentioned it on the forum.   Now I see it, and it makes her even more appealing to me - but that is because I think 'flawed beauty' is best.  

[Agitel]

Here is the final piece of x-ray trivia for episode three.

 

Quote

Aes Sedai law dictates that a man found channeling should be brought to the Tower to stand trial and then be "gentled" or cut off from saidin - the male half of the source.

 

It goes on to explain a bit more about gentling but this isn't the only reference to saidin in the trivia. There is still a male half and a female half in the show.

 

[ArrylT]

On 11/19/2021 at 2:45 PM, Wordjerk said:

Personally I'm glad she's not tugging on her braid as in the books. That got really annoying after the 100th time haha. One of those "character traits" that doesn't really do much other than show frustration, which in a tv show can be done better through the actors facial expressions.

 

In the same vein, I'm glad that Rand, Matt, and Perrin haven't been constantly talking about how they sure don't understand women but the other ones do. Haha.

 

 

I think this is a great post because I think it highlights what one person loves another does not.   More braid tugging is good for one but not another.   

[Harad the White]

5 minutes ago, Agitel said:

It goes on to explain a bit more about gentling but this isn't the only reference to saidin in the trivia. There is still a male half and a female half in the show.

So much for that theory.