full book spoilers Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers)

[Beidomon]

Did they take the Dragonmount birth out of the lore, too? Man I hope not. What’d she say in the narration?

[Joe B]

3 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Wait for it.. We have seen them in official clips traveling on road with lots of people.

 

She was 306 years old when she died. Why couldn't she become blind during that?

"An Aes Sedai was BORN with eyes so white, she could not see"

[JenniferL]

1 minute ago, AusLeviathan said:

Gitara wasn't blind.

 

I don't remember any reference to a blind Aes Sedai. I guess it could be possible though I struggle to imagine how they'd learn to use the One Power when actually seeing the weaves to learn them is shown to be pretty important.

This is definitely a change from how channeling works in the books. It’s explicitly stated that you need to be able to see in order to weave. There’s someone who used to have a block who says she could only embrace saidar with her eyes closed until one of the Aes Sedai literally beat it out of her. I am assuming they made the change because blind seers are a powerful archetype in mythology and it also sounds metal as hell. 

[AusLeviathan]

4 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

What’d she say in the narration?

She said they don't know where the DR was born, nor whether it was a boy or a girl.

 

So yeah there's clearly no Dragonmount birth in the show's prophecy lore.

Edited November 22, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Beidomon]

5 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Gitara wasn't blind.

 

I don't remember any reference to a blind Aes Sedai. I guess it could be possible though I struggle to imagine how they'd learn to use the One Power when actually seeing the weaves to learn them is shown to be pretty important.

Sounds like she is in WOTTV. Didn’t Mo say that?

[Joe B]

2 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

Did they take the Dragonmount birth out of the lore, too? Man I hope not. What’d she say in the narration?

"Twenty years ago, there was a woman at the White Tower. An Aes Sedai born with eyes so white, she couldn't see anything. Yet still she saw. Glimpses of the turning of the Wheel."

 

[MasterAblar]

9 hours ago, Beidomon said:

Did they take the Dragonmount birth out of the lore, too? Man I hope not. What’d she say in the narration?

Pretty sure she said they don’t know where. Which seems pretty damn problematic now that I think of it! ?

 

How in the world could they possibly narrow it down? The entire world an not even just one gender. Did she just go to every village line up all the girls and see if they could channel? And for the dudes she was just like “I’ll visit you in X amount of years. You do anything weird, come find me”?

Edited November 22, 2021 by MasterAblar

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, AusLeviathan said:

So yeah clearly no Dragonmount birth in the prophecy lore.

Why clearly? Why was she in Two Rivers. What more backstory can still come out?

 

 

[AusLeviathan]

4 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Why clearly? Why was she in Two Rivers. What more backstory can still come out?

Because she said they don't know where the DR was born and she can't lie.

 

She also said she was going to the Two Rivers because of "rumors of four Ta'veren" which seems to have been added solely to cover for the fact she doesn't know in the show where the DR was born.

Edited November 22, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[MasterAblar]

2 minutes ago, Joe B said:

"Twenty years ago, there was a woman at the White Tower. An Aes Sedai born with eyes so white, she couldn't see anything. Yet still she saw. Glimpses of the turning of the Wheel."

 

Eh, she’s dead don’t need to explain it I guess. Not a very impactful change, totally unecessary but done entirely for rule of cool I guess.

[Beidomon]

You know, for a dude who supposedly loved WOT, Rafe sure doesn’t seem to give a crap about any of the lore undergirding the series.

[Beidomon]

1 minute ago, AusLeviathan said:

Because she said they don't know where the DR was born and she can't lie.

But can she lie if it’s only in her head? I mean, it’s narration. 

[Gothic Flame]

Just now, Beidomon said:

You know, for a dude who supposedly loved WOT, Rafe sure doesn’t seem to give a crap about any of the lore undergirding the series.

I'm certain it will get worse when he tries to fix the problems that will arise when he realizes the continuity errors occurring for not adhering to the source material.

[MasterAblar]

Well… technically the oaths say speak I believe. Still not sure why someone would lie in their head, but I suppose you never know.

[Akragard]

43 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Disagree. What about the gender of the OG (Original Dragon) caused the downfall? Couldn't a superstrong female channeler have done the same thing. That's like saying Ivan the Terrible demonstrates that all tsars are male, forgetting entirely about Catherine the Great.

What was the name of this female channeler?   Or is this some amorphous, strawman female channeler that broke the world and caused the backlash that tainted Saidin?

 

When the names of all the Dragons rattle through Rand's head during travel through the portal stones, I don't recall any of them being women.  There is no evidence that I know of to support that theory. Do you have sources?

Edited November 22, 2021 by Akragard

[Joe B]

As much as I like the show and happy to have it, I find myself nitpicking everything. Three rewatches, and I cringe everytime Lan says "The fade has trollocs with it." It seems out of character to me. Halfman, yes. Eyeless, yes. "Fade" is such an Andor term. 

[Harad the White]

2 minutes ago, Akragard said:

What was the name of this female channeler?   O

Half of the Forsaken were powerful female channelers.

[Akragard]

4 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Half of the Forsaken were powerful female channelers.

Buuuuut.  None of them were the Dragon.  We're talking specifically about the Dragon being a man.

 

The souls are reborn in different bodies, with different names, but it's always the same soul.  It's always Lews Therin and Rand and any of the other Dragon's names through time, but always the same soul.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Akragard

[Harad the White]

2 minutes ago, Joe B said:

, I find myself nitpicking everything.

O Lord, stop me before I nitpick again.

[AusLeviathan]

12 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

But can she lie if it’s only in her head? I mean, it’s narration.

Yeah but spoken narration to the audience. You can't have her say she can't speak a lie and then have her speak narration to the audience that is a lie. Plus who would lie when thinking to themselves about their quest.

Edited November 22, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Jackdaw_Fool]

14 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Pretty sure she said they don’t know where. Which seems pretty damn problematic now that I think of it! ?

Right! That's why I'm so curious how she disqualified the guy at the beginning of the show!

[Agitel]

2 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Yeah but spoken narration to the audience. You can't have her say she can't speak a lie and then have her speak narration to the audience that is a lie.

 

There is a little writer's trick called a retcon. This is one I think most show only watchers might easily forgive. We know it never should have happened to begin with.

 

I'm interested to see what happens in the actual story outside the opening narration. I have a suspicion it was something tacked on near the end of the project, but what do I know?

[Harad the White]

2 minutes ago, Akragard said:

The souls are reborn in different bodies, with different names, but it's always the same soul.  It's always Lews Therin and Rand and any of the other dragon's names through time, but always the same soul.

True. And what about the gender makes them the Dragon? It's not that they're superstrong channelers. Women do that too.

From my very first post, I pointed out and still believe that the only meaningful change from the book was this very point: the possibility of a female DR. As you point out the Dragon was a male in the book, and thus the DR is a male. Thus, the series allows gender changes in the reborning process. My other point about gender neutrality is that either sex in that world can, in priciniple have Dragon powers. 

[KingBeyondTheFirewall]

5 minutes ago, Jackdaw_Fool said:

Right! That's why I'm so curious how she disqualified the guy at the beginning of the show!

This also makes me think why Moiraine was asking Nynaeve about where she was born? If they don't know where the DR was born then why is it important if Nynaeve (a potential DR candidate at the point) was born in the Two Rivers or outside.

 

From what I can guess, Dragonmount IS in, but the line about "not knowing the place of birth" is a mistake or wrong. That's the only thing that makes sense.

[Gothic Flame]

2 minutes ago, Agitel said:

There is a little writer's trick called a retcon. This is one I think most show only watchers might easily forgive. We know it never should have happened to begin with.

I've always despised retcons. It reveals that the writers never knew what they were doing.