full book spoilers Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers)

[JaimAybara]

10 minutes ago, NightWolf said:

It's a money funnel to fill the coffers of their LoTR project and Andy Jassy's wallet.

What I don’t understand is if Amazon wants prestige for having big shows etc. why don’t they just dump the money required to make them succeed? For both of them. Instead of bait and switch and penny pushing. I feel like they are going for instant gratification / short term gains as opposed to long term rewards. (Disclaimer: I understand much of what makes something work is artistry and writing too, but money could fix pacing and cgi).

Edited November 22, 2021 by JaimAybara

[Agitel]

WOT is being given funding comparable to other prestige shows in its genre. It's not like they gave it a pittance. LotR is just getting an absurd amount of funding.

[Harad the White]

17 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

It's a concern / fear - not a known thing. But if they don't make cuts, this is going to feel very rushed.

Every adaptation has to cut. Expecting the worst is not productive, so I recommend waiting to see what these guys produce. For example, eliminating the Seachan cuts into Matt's arc, so something creative will be needed. I hated when they took out Tom Bombadil, but say lavie.

[Harad the White]

4 minutes ago, NightWolf said:

There is nowhere else to go... you are alone at the summit, defending your hoarde of gold.

How about Mars?

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

I've had a bad week ... in my real life, but having been a fan of the books for 20+ years I did find some time to watch the show (even though it wasn't the watch party I planned) and I even watched it with two non-fans who know nothing about WoT. 

 

Here's my thoughts and their reactions:

#1. Both the newbies and myself said, "Well, it was better than I thought it'd be..."

So that's a real good sign. I think there's a lot they can build on. I think later episodes will be even better. And I hope that we get multiple seasons (like 8 or 10) so they can tell the whole story. 

 

#2. I thought it was funny that part way into the first episode my non book reading friend says, "So the women are in charge and the men suck in this world?" And I actually found myself defending the show by saying, "Well, sort of. And trying to explain the taint and power dynamics." 

 

#3. I really tried hard to just not think about the books and take the show for what it is ... And doing that I'd say ... Ok. The CGI was a little wonky at points. The writing/script was very poor and awkward at points. The pacing was a little off. But the acting was superb. Matt, in particular, was immediately likeable and funny. The scenery was beautiful. There was intrigue. The Trollocs looked pretty badass and scary for the most part. They're leaning into some of the darker elements but also the color/lightning is so much better than GoT. 

 

But as a book fan I was going: no, no, no & yes, yes, yes! 

Perrin killing his wife. NO. 

Matt having terrible parents. NO. 

Egwene being a tavrene and a potential dragon. NO. 

Whitecloaks being a legit source of worry to Aes Sedai. NO. 

Nynaeve getting the drop on Lan. NO. 

But.

Tam drawing his heron marked sword. YES.

The wolf (Hopper?) licking Perrin. YES. 

Thom talking about Aiel. YES. 

 

But. There's potential here. And I think the later episodes may be better. One of the main things I'd say WoT has going for it is (the competition has all the same problems)! What else am I gonna watch?! 

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Wolfbrother31

[Agitel]

I haven't noticed any bad dialogue. There are a few things that don't jive so great with the way the books presented things (rumor of four ta'veren), but none of it was really cringey to me. Not really superb, either, but the show hasn't really allowed much for talking. Unfortunately. 

[Harad the White]

$$$ does not translate into art. Now that CGI is so advanced the chance of doing a great job on a complex masterpiece like WoT becomes feasible, and is due entirely to the artistic chops of the creative team. We could have said that a week ago, but now we, or at least I, know that the baseline is very promising. Since I know better than to say "It's  not in the book" or " Why did they leave out X" none of that concerns. What is important is either there--characters, the world, and the plot--or can still be accommodated.

[Arthellion]

I was reserved to the changes going in so was able to mostly enjoy my first watch.

 

Rewatching, there is the foundation of a really good show. They need to breathe and fix the pacing but I can see future seasons being epic. 

[Vambram]

I don't understand all the negative comments about the cgi being wonky or cheap. On my big screen TV, the cgi actually looks pretty good to me. 

[Chadouken]

I haven't been to this site in years- I don't think my old account is even active anymore. After watching the first three episodes of the show I figured I'd come say hi and drop a few thoughts in here.

 

I really like the series. After reading through the comments in this thread I can totally understand why some people don't, but I'm not overly critical in general, and having read the source material I'm pretty intimate with the world so it's been fun to follow along and see the transformation onto the screen. That said, it did take me a couple episodes to get used to the casting. Some of the characters are very different than how they were described in the books (I can't believe Thom doesn't have moustaches). But after letting it sink in, I've come to enjoy the performances.

 

The setting is amazing and makes the world feel like it's in Jordan's vision so far. I was impressed with the channeling during the Trolloc battle; really cool depiction and close to how I imagined it. Whitecloaks were awesome and seem to be a pretty formidable foe. I feel like there's a lot the series got right so far, and also some things I wish were not left out. 

 

I'm invested in it and from what I've seen I have high hopes of it getting better and better as the story opens up.

 

I just hope they don't dedicate an entire episode to the color of Elayne's dress.

[Beidomon]

8 minutes ago, Agitel said:

I haven't noticed any bad dialogue. There are a few things that don't jive so great with the way the books presented things (rumor of four ta'veren), but none of it was really cringey to me. Not really superb, either, but the show hasn't really allowed much for talking. Unfortunately. 

Mo’s opening narration. Look, if you’re going to use narration - at least tell the damned story correctly. 

Basically every line of Mo and Lan’s opening scene was terrible.

“There are rumors of 4 ta’veren.” My god that’s stupid on multiple levels. 

 

Mo: “It isn’t him.” Lan: “He’s the right age and he can channel….” Viewers: “Didn’t you just say you don’t know if the DR is a boy or a girl - why does Lan find it significant that it’s a dude?”

 

Our four DR candidates sitting around the campfire, shooting the shit: “so what do you think about all this DR stuff?”

 

The Manatheren singalong and storytime. 

 

The darkfriend monologue.

 

I could go on. I’m not saying all the dialogue is terrible - it isn’t - but there are a disproportionate number of clunkers for three episodes. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Beidomon

[Vambram]

To me, most of the dialogue has been okay. 

[Harad the White]

This forum has gone in waves. When I first returned the wave was "I can't believe they left the gate off Shadar Logoth. I wish they hadn't made the series." Fortunately, at least until Friday, that has subsided.

[MasterAblar]

3 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

Mo: “It isn’t him.” Lan: “He’s the right age and he can channel….” Viewers: “Didn’t you just say you don’t know if the DR is a boy or a girl - why does Lan find it significant that it’s a dude?”

 

I'm confused where do you see Lan saying that it's significant it was a dude?  The person in question is clearly a man, but Lan didn't say he was the right gender just the right age.

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, Harad the White said:

This forum has gone in waves. When I first returned the wave was "I can't believe they left the gate off Shadar Logoth. I wish they hadn't made the series." Fortunately, at least until Friday, that has subsided.

 

I don't even understand the whole gate thing. So they didn't show the gate. Why would that mean it doesn't exist? 

[Agitel]

Just now, MasterAblar said:

 

I don't even understand the whole gate thing. So they didn't show the gate. Why would that mean it doesn't exist? 

 

In Lan's story he specifically says they built it without a gate or something. But not the type of detail I'm going to be upset about.

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, Agitel said:

But not the type of detail I'm going to be upset about.

If you had to chose between no series and no gate...heh

[Joe B]

39 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

The incredible new power is :

  Hide contents

a man who actually knows how to channel, and what he wants to do with it.

 

Are you being facetious, or referring to Ablar?

[enigmoxical]

17 hours ago, AusLeviathan said:

Granted so far all women in the show seem to be warriors in their own way so it seems to be an across the board change.

 

Anyone who thinks that the first three episodes are a good representation of Nynaeve needs to reread the books, it's a very different interpretation.

I believe that we can expect more "changes" like this as it moves forward. Has anyone studied the Director, Uta Briesewitz? She is a very outspoken advocate of "women power." No, I'm not going where you assume I am. Instead, I have a question: Why did the women of the series need more power? Think about it...the Amyrlin Seat, considered to be the most powerful woman in the world. Min, without whom Rand would have likely lost it. She kept him grounded and human. Moraine, who needed to be there at the final battle. Morgaise, Elayne, Fayle, Brigitte, Avienda, on and on and on. They all played very powerful roles without emasculating the men. Rand, in the books, could not have won without them. It was all good. So why do they need to be more "empowered?"

[enigmoxical]

22 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

She did a very nice series of interviews that are included in the show’s special features. 

Thanks Elder_Haman. I'll check it out. 

[Beidomon]

26 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

I'm confused where do you see Lan saying that it's significant it was a dude?  The person in question is clearly a man, but Lan didn't say he was the right gender just the right age.

If that piece wasn’t significant, then why would Lan remark at all? There are likely hundreds of 20yo female channeling candidates. The scene clearly makes it look like they are searching for a male channeler (which of course they are in the books - it’s a little more confusing in the show). Just one of those “wrinkles” from changing the lore that doesn’t seem quite ironed out - but it’s kinda hilarious that this wrinkle was in like the first 5mins of the first episode. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Beidomon

[Harad the White]

13 minutes ago, enigmoxical said:

Rand, in the books, could not have won without them. It was all good. So why do they need to be more "empowered?"

I don't buy the power shift from men to women. As you say, in the book, the power was already divided, and it remains thus. Here's another way to look at it: in "Hamilton" George Washington is black. Is this a racial power shift? No. It's a clever way to point out the irrelevance of race,  and in this case, of gender.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Harad the White
Correction

[MasterAblar]

3 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

If that piece wasn’t significant, then why would Lan remark at all? There are likely hundreds of 20yo female channeling candidates. The scene clearly makes it look like they are searching for a male channeler (which of course they are in the books - it’s a little more confusing in the show). 

 

I see what you mean, why this dude in particular. Well I assume they would have already checked out all the women who could channel and were the right age at the tower. For those who aren't at the tower they'd have to search them out same as the men.

 

I do think it's not gonna be very believable that the Dragon Reborn could be a woman if literally every exemple of false dragons remain men.

[AusLeviathan]

4 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Here's another way to look at it: in "Hamilton" King George III is black. Is this a racial power shift? No. It's a clever way to point out the irrelevance of race,  and in this case, of gender.

Isn't King George usually the only character played by a white actor in Hamilton?

Edited November 22, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Beidomon]

3 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

I see what you mean, why this dude in particular. Well I assume they would have already checked out all the women who could channel and were the right age at the tower. For those who aren't at the tower they'd have to search them out same as the men.

 

I do think it's not gonna be very believable that the Dragon Reborn could be a woman if literally every exemple of false dragons remain men.

How exactly do you think they “check out” all the women for DR? Is there a special ter’angreal for that? Midichloreans? 
 

(My snark isn’t directed at you, btw, but at what a stupid change this was.)

Edited November 22, 2021 by Beidomon