tv show spoilers S1E8: The Eye of the World

[Yojimbo]

1 minute ago, MasterAblar said:

 

I mean they might just have records that say it's a male sangreal even if she can't feel it herself.

So all their records about ...well just about everything are wrong, but they got this one thing right?   Eh, you are probably right, but it feels sloppy to me. 

[Yojimbo]

2 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Maybe, but that does present issues later on so I'm not sure if that works. It's also pretty hard to really differentiate Saidin and Saidar so far when Saidin has barely been present. Just a shielded Logain, and the Aes Sedai aren't going to know much about Saidin.

I completely agree here.   It smacks of sloppy writing.   

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, Yojimbo said:

So all their records about ...well just about everything are wrong, but they got this one thing right?   Eh, you are probably right, but it feels sloppy to me. 

 

I mean the Tower should have considerable stores of objects of the power so it's not terrible but I do think it was just an excuse to give Moiraine some kind of plan. Although I did think it was hillarious when she told Rand and he just had a kinda silly smile going "Wait for real this is all you got?!"

[Gothic Flame]

6 minutes ago, Apsalar said:

Sad to say I wont be watching the next season. 

And that's the only way that pushes for improvements.

[Cellardur]

I agree with the change to introduce the Horn and have it stolen by Padan to set up season 2, however it was terribly done and rushed. Film viewers have no time to understand why it is so important.

 

I will mention this briefly, but the male characters in the show ARE being short changed and made to look weaker.

 

I am only into the series and it has been drummed into me from the books just how strong Ergwene is with only Elayne being her equal. Nyneave is supposed to he even more powerful than that. I am not completely aware of the power of a circle, but this does seem a bit much.

 

More importantly from a structure POV you need to give the audience the pay off. Everyone expects Rand to have his glorious moment and it needs to be delivered.

 

The battle tactics were terrible, the CGI was bad and it just didn't make sense. Further morea Perrin is useless at the moment. 

 

Morraine being stilled did show the power gap and since I am only in book 3, I don't know if this messes things up in the future.

 

Another thing I like is actually even with the change in actor is Matt's storyline. I have just reached Matts POV for the first time and I can already tell he is going to be my favourite or one of my favourite characters in the book. However, up until this point he has been mostly annoying and hasn't actually played much of a role despite blowing the horn. He is by far the least developed out of the 5 in the first two books. I think it's a good for the show to hint that Matt might go to the dark. His mother foreshadowed this in the show calling him a "prick." This way when he is properly healed I can see the fans of the show loving him even more.

 

 

[VooDooNut]

2 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

I mean the Tower should have considerable stores of objects of the power so it's not terrible but I do think it was just an excuse to give Moiraine some kind of plan. Although I did think it was hillarious when she told Rand and he just had a kinda silly smile going "Wait for real this is all you got?!"

It's great to see the stubborn, wool-headed Rand emerge!

 

The sa'angreal was a bit funky, but I'll have to see what they do with season 2 before making judgement. It seemed to be a direct replacement for TEOTW though, meaning it allowed Rand to channel pure Saidin through the sa'angreal at least until he purposefully directed the flows (then the taint came to play).

Edited December 24, 2021 by VooDooNut
grammer

[Yojimbo]

3 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

What core story changed in outcome?

 

Rand went to the eye.  There was a battle at Fal Dara.   The horn was found and lost.

 

The two biggest changes to me is Rand decided to go off on his (but can be brought back to Fal Dara pretty easily) and Mat is currently in Tar Valon (because the actor left the show).

 

 

I really don't understand that mindset, that as long as they hit certain plot points the why and how of it doesn't matter at all?  So if Rand is wandering about in the Aile Waste early next season, and then some random character says "hey, you should go to the Stone of Tear" that would be acceptable?   Hey, if that works for you I'm happy for you.  It's just that they thousands of little details in the books are what made them such fun reads.   

[Cellardur]

20 minutes ago, Finfolfin said:

Are you actually joking?

It is definitely not and up until episode 8 the Wheel if Time has been far, far, far more faithful true to the characters than the films ever were. It's for good reason Christopher Tolkien the person who knows LoTR better than anyone else except his dad hates them.

[pretty_blossom]

Saw the last episode - I think I'll stick with this show - but they do some really silly stuff for no reason - the girls burning in the circle was unnecessary, and giving Egwain healing powers was also weird. That portal from the 6th episode was a real plothole - if Moirain can open gateways, why bother with the waygate?

Getting Stilled is also unnecessary - Moirain still has a lot of channeling to do before she goes through the red doorway.

Rand running off on his own at the end... Out of character, but I guess it's fine, but he still has to be a part of the hunt for the Horn, and Mat is also in the wrong place for that without good reason.

I liked how they reshuffle the encounters between people without Caemlyn, but it doesn't give enough time for certain characters to properly bond with each other - Thom and Moirain, the Andor princes and Rand never meet, the Amerlyn missed the boys being Taverens, Perrin and the whitecloaks, ect.

I hope they fix those problems elegantly like they did with Min and Rand - that one was a nice change.

All in all - a TV show is never like the books, I need to stop comparing them.

[DigificWriter]

^ You don't know what the end result of these choices will be, so you don't have any baseline by which you can declare them to be unnecessary.

[DojoToad]

Glad to see many of you stuck it out through the finale.  You saw what I feared was coming.  Lot of great comments here on both sides.  The show is broke but Dragonmount is not!

[MasterAblar]

8 minutes ago, Cellardur said:

 

I am only into the series and it has been drummed into me from the books just how strong Ergwene is with only Elayne being her equal. Nyneave is supposed to he even more powerful than that. I am not completely aware of the power of a circle, but this does seem a bit much.

 

Egwene's potential is very strong but her current strength is quite small since she's just started channelling. Nyneave is even stronger than her and furthermore has been channelling for a while, she just wasn't aware of it.

[Finfolfin]

Just now, DigificWriter said:

^ You don't know what the end result of these choices will be, so you don't have any baseline by which you can declare them to be unnecessary.

we've read the books, we have a baseline

[DigificWriter]

1 minute ago, DojoToad said:

The show is broke

 

No, it isn't.

 

You don't like what the show is doing; that doesn't mean that Rafe and his team have done anything wrong.

2 minutes ago, Finfolfin said:

we've read the books, we have a baseline

 

The show and the books are not the same thing and were never going to be the same thing.

[fra85uk]

Yes show and books are different 

 

One is mediocre at best, with points of low never digged even by the worst productions in the history of film-making.

 

The others are simply the best modern fantasy series ever written.

[Lurker_Fan]

7 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Glad to see many of you stuck it out through the finale.  You saw what I feared was coming.  Lot of great comments here on both sides.  The show is broke but Dragonmount is not!

I was psyched after 7, but 8 was garbage. Not gonna lie.

[ArrylT]

3 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

No, it isn't.

 

You don't like what the show is doing; that doesn't mean that Rafe and his team have done anything wrong.

 

The show and the books are not the same thing and were never going to be the same thing.

 

That will never stop many, myself included, from wanting that to occur

 

IE I can love the show and still want another adaptation as well.     

[Finfolfin]

1 minute ago, DigificWriter said:

 

No, it isn't.

 

You don't like what the show is doing; that doesn't mean that Rafe and his team have done anything wrong.

They put two episodes of useless OC filler when they could have concentrated on the characters we have like Mat , Perrin, Rand and loial and used it for worldbuiding. They have done wrong by the bookfans

1 minute ago, DigificWriter said:

 

The show and the books are not the same thing and were never going to be the same thing.

We knew it wouldn't be a faithful adaption but at this point is butchery. The season finale is so bad you are telling us to wait until next season to see how it plays out, it wasn't a satisfying finish to an already mediocre season.

't-trust me guys at the end of the season it will work out'

we are here

'Trust me g-guys next season we will get rands moments and things will work out'

'trust me g-guys egwene saving everyone at dumais well doesnt take away from the story'

'trust me g-guys i know the series is finished after 8 seasons but the amazon extras expain it'

[TheDreadReader]

4 minutes ago, Yojimbo said:

I really don't understand that mindset, that as long as they hit certain plot points the why and how of it doesn't matter at all?  So if Rand is wandering about in the Aile Waste early next season, and then some random character says "hey, you should go to the Stone of Tear" that would be acceptable?   Hey, if that works for you I'm happy for you.  It's just that they thousands of little details in the books are what made them such fun reads.   

 

There's a trend towards blanket "they changed the story!" statements to which "they hit the same story beats" is a proportionate response.

 

I tend to use the term story in a rather specific way.  Story is the events as they unfold in time.  Plot is the logical relationships between those events.  

 

There are certainly very interesting conversations to be had about the differences between how the books did things and how the show does things but that requires a degree of engagement and understanding of what the show decided to do.

 

An example, might be.   Rand and Min had a private conversation in Baerlon in the books.  The story change in the show is they had that conversation in Fal Dara.  Does that introduce plot complications?  Does the change in time introduce story complications?  I'd say the answer to both is no.   So, the effect of that change is rather small.  

 

 

[DigificWriter]

3 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

Yes show and books are different 

 

One is mediocre at best, with points of low never digged even by the worst productions in the history of film-making.

 

The others are simply the best modern fantasy series ever written.

 

Agree to disagree, especially with the bolded.

 

[jh557]

5 hours ago, Ralph said:

Re Amalisa. I think it was her last stand, and she never dreamed the power she received from Eg and N would allow her to wipe them out

Therefore no reason to go to the Gap. 

The reason it has to be her leading is because only she had the training. Although not strong enough, she knows how to cast lightning. Which E and N don't 

 

 

 

 

Could Amalisa not have just been a borderland warrior woman making her last stand protecting her country with a sword (maybe even a heron marked blade to have a woman blademaster)? I feel like her being a channeler was forced in the show. Since she could channel, they could have just made her strong enough to cast a bolt or two of lightning that Egwene and Nyn could have then copied. Or it could have just been an emotional fear of dying blast unleashed by Egwene and/or Nyn that they do not understand how it happened afterwards. Like I get Amalisa having probably seen the weave for lightning before but her training should have been to make her safe enough to not hurt anybody else and to go home not battle weaves.

 

Another side problem I had is that Egwene is not some fountain of power at this time. She barely made a fire ball the last time she channeled. She has not yet been forced by her time in the collar. She has vast potential but that is all it is at this time.  

[TheMountain]

36 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Once as a child. It wasn't entertaining. Movies are great. I've not read Silmarillion and the other books.

Well, there you go. Come back if you ever read the books as an adult and remember them, then tell me it's a simple and short story lol

[Cellardur]

8 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Egwene's potential is very strong but her current strength is quite small since she's just started channelling. Nyneave is even stronger than her and furthermore has been channelling for a while, she just wasn't aware of it.

Thanks.

 

Just clarification. I know she needs training and I am at the point where she has had several months training at the White Tower in addition to her encounter with the Seanchan speeding up her development. 

 

I didn't buy the healing and felt they took away from Rand's moment. The healing of Nyneave afterwards was also unnecessary and unbelievable.

 

 However, from my current point I can just about buy Nyneave and Ergwene being used mostly as batteries in a circle to power up someone. I am still early on in the series and not sure how much this contradicts the law. I just think they did too much and surely this should have been plan A, before an actual cavalry charge.

[DaddyFinn]

2 minutes ago, TheMountain said:

Well, there you go. Come back if you ever read the books as an adult and remember them, then tell me it's a simple and short story lol

Well, it's quite objectively short. Less than 2000 pages, right? Silmarillion and the rest are not relevant to this discussion

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, Cellardur said:

 

I didn't buy the healing and felt they took away from Rand's moment. The healing of Nyneave afterwards was also unnecessary and unbelievable.

 

 

I do think the near death healing was unecessary. Showing Nyneave in really bad condition because of the circle and not being in control and suffering because of it would have been enough to set up her later struggles with channelling.

 

1 minute ago, Cellardur said:

However, from my current point I can just about buy Nyneave and Ergwene being used mostly as batteries in a circle to power up someone. I am still early on in the series and not sure how much this contradicts the law. I just think they did too much and surely this should have been plan A, before an actual cavalry charge.

 

 

Same, I think them being used as batteries was fine, but I would have prefered if the Shienarans had managed to pull back from the fort, regroup and cavalry charge once the channellers were exhausted. Somewhat similar to the books. It also just makes the Shienarans look better than they did there.