tv show spoilers S1E7: The Dark Along the Ways

[Whittle]

What’s up with all the chest tattoos? First Suian and now Min. Not attractive in my opinion. 

[Deviations]

32 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

This is the first book. The extent of their romance at this point was - they are now in love. Which is pretty much where we're at in the show.

Agreed.  I just don't love how they got there.

[DigificWriter]

I got a completely different read with regards to Moiraine's  motivation for sending a message to the Red Ajah, which is that she's manipulating tower politics in order to accomplish something something that she currently can't do herself (find Mat and make sure he ends up back in Tar Valon and the relative safety of the White Tower one way or another) rather than trying to neutralize him if he were in fact the Dragon Reborn.

Edited December 17, 2021 by DigificWriter

[Jaysen Gore]

42 minutes ago, qlorin said:

My prediction Mat story directly goes to book 3... His "part" at the end of book 2 and that story line will totaly get rid of... We didnt hear anything about "legendary item"...

At this point why bother with the story in the books...
-Maybe whole party will be going to "Stone" instaed of Falme... 
-Maybe Mat finds "the grey fox" at the "Stone"
-Maybe Girls never goes to Tower no test no education directly "Stone"
-Elayne maybe engaged with Lord Samon in this story not a Forsaken but simple dark friend...
-Maybe Lan has a secret child...
-Maybe there is no Avihandre because no Galad or Gawyn we need 3 woman soooo Egwene back on the board...
-Maybe Galad story added to Perrin... thats a twist...
-Maybe Egwene-Galad-Gawyn becames Egwene-Rand-Perrin...
-Maybe no Faile of course... We added extra wife we can substract one...

Really can anybody say this changes are more drastic then what they did so far...

Yes, I can say these changes are more drastic than what they've done.

 

We know from the Costume Design behind the scenes that Falme and Tear are different cultures so they are not conflating them. We know the Seanchan are out west, not in Tear (thanks Maighan). So yes, it's possible that Mat spends all of season 2 as a sick beggar in TV, and picks up his S3 storyline directly from them. But he's been hired for season 2, and occam's razor says he blows the horn at the end of the season to save Egwene.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Jaysen Gore

[WheelofJuke]

49 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Are you arguing that the Nynaeve/Lan romance was a 'slow burn of feelings'? That somehow there was a build up to a "will they/won't they"? RJ was a great writer of many things - romance was not one of those things. The tv relationship feels 1000% more organic than the one from the books. And this from someone who is generally not thrilled with the changes to Lan.

Yes, I am arguing that.  There absolutely was that build up, based on Moiraine being in the picture, and a lot of the bond-passing stuff not even on the horizon, yet. And, Lan's duty vs. love softening and Nyn's maturation were great individual growth arcs that made the eventual union all the more satisfying. 

Again, all this is my opinion, and how I view things personally. Different strokes for different folks, and all that jazz. 

 

I'm not hating what the tv version is, just saying it's falling victim to the general truncation and elision, rushed story-telling and pacing. 

[Jaysen Gore]

1 hour ago, Sabio said:

Rewatching the episode, when Rand and Egwene start to snuggle in the Ways. Perin does shoot them a long look.  Is it because he does have feeling for Egwene or it makes him remember he brutally murdered his wife?

I think there is a fine nuance between Jealousy and Envy. I get the sense Perrin's relationship with Layla was not a happy one, and he envied Rand his relationship with Egwene. But he was not jealous of Egwene in particular. 

 

WAIT - INSPIRATION!! - they've set up recurring pattern for Perrin. The woman he loves is irrationally jealous of someone he cares very much for, but is not attracted to. Which leads to jealousy, tension and drama. Layla and Egwene will repeat with Faile / Berelain 

[Whittle]

7 hours ago, DojoToad said:

So you don't have high hopes for the season finale then?

Not particularly.

But I think if done well I’ll be back for season 2. Which I think has the potential to be much better since the dumb “who’s the dragon” mystery is behind us. Let’s get busy fulfilling some prophecy! 
Also a little surprised we didn’t see another interaction with Ishy in this episode.

[Jaysen Gore]

44 minutes ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

Agelmar is one of the top 5 military leaders known and lord of this fortress - its is reasonable for him to dislike having his judgement questioned by anyone other than his king (especially in public).  Think of him as the Duke of Wellington disliking political interferance in how he runs his campaign - it shows no particular disrespect of Aes Sedai, it is impatience with any interferance.

Hence the why would he ask any questions when he knows all the answers snide remark.

[qlorin]

4 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

 So yes, it's possible that Mat spends all of season 2 as a sick beggar in TV, and picks up his S3 storyline directly from them. But he's been hired for season 2, and occam's razor says he blows the horn at the end of the season to save Egwene.

I rhink season 2 ends where book 3 end...  They need to combine some books and those two book are very combinable... One big  journey... I cant see how they implement the horn to the story... They are going to the bore not the eye of the world... "Hey we won and found this never mention incredible artifact"... I dont see how they keep interst on an artifact used very begiging and end of the story... 

 

12 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

We know from the Costume Design behind the scenes that Falme are different cultures so they are not conflating them. We know the Seanchan are out west, not in Tear (thanks Maighan).

This part I dont know anything about production to be honest... Sooo maybe... But as far as i see they are mishmasing many cultures... And Seanchen can come to tear after a time... Some character will say "Ohhh those rumors we hear from the west come to Tear at last"

 

15 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

Yes, I can say these changes are more drastic than what they've done.

Okay Lan' secret child was a joke...

How about

-Liandarin's secret boyfriend is actualy Ishameal

[orbops]

General question - my wife and I read each of the books when they were initially published starting in 1990 and read the entire series just one time. We can barely remember anything from the books other than the names and characteristics of the main characters - so would you consider us to be non-readers? As we watch the show, we are often saying, " Oh yeah, I kinda remember this from the novels..."

[Skipp]

23 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

I got a completely different read with regards to Moiraine's  motivation for sending a message to the Red Ajah, which is that she's manipulating tower politics in order to accomplish something something that she currently can't do herself (find Mat and make sure he ends up back in Tar Valon and the relative safety of the White Tower one way or another) rather than trying to neutralize him if he were in fact the Dragon Reborn.

That is how I see it as well.  Liandrin appears to already know what Mat looks like and won't question why if she thinks capturing Mat will make Moiraine look bad.

[CaddySedai]

2 hours ago, Sabio said:

Someone needs to put Red in their portrait instead of Green.  No defending Reds.

 

Who is defending them? Im simply stating thats what they do ?

 

Thats like being mad at giraffes for being tall. 

[DigificWriter]

1 minute ago, Skipp said:

That is how I see it as well.  Liandrin appears to already know what Mat looks like and won't question why if she thinks capturing Mat will make Moiraine look bad.

 

Exactly.

 

I also think she's counting on Liandrin to go against her inclination to break the rules and gentle male channelers without a trial after she (Liandrin) had just been punished by Siuan for doing that exact thing.

[TheDreadReader]

22 minutes ago, WheelofJuke said:

I'm not hating what the tv version is, just saying it's falling victim to the general truncation and elision, rushed story-telling and pacing. 

 

 

If your plan is for 8 seasons and these things are things you want to show then you have to pull them forward.   Much easier for them to put the brakes on things already in progress if they get more seasons then it is to wait to introduce them later.

 

[notpropaganda73]

6 minutes ago, orbops said:

General question - my wife and I read each of the books when they were initially published starting in 1990 and read the entire series just one time. We can barely remember anything from the books other than the names and characteristics of the main characters - so would you consider us to be non-readers? As we watch the show, we are often saying, " Oh yeah, I kinda remember this from the novels..."

 

No, you're definitely in the readers club. 

[qlorin]

4 minutes ago, orbops said:

so would you consider us to be non-readers? As we watch the show, we are often saying, " Oh yeah, I kinda remember this from the novels..."

I read first book at 2005... I re-read and listen to audio book many times... (while i write this the fourth book is playing at the back)... And I say " Oh yeah, I kinda remember this from the novels..."... ? 

[DigificWriter]

Just now, notpropaganda73 said:

 

No, you're definitely in the readers club. 

 

I personally identify myself as a non-reader even though I've read the first two books, so it's a subjective thing.

[ForsakenPotato]

It doesn't seem that bad to me even if Perrin did have a crush on Egwene. In a group of 5 of close to the same age someone is bound to have some unrequited feelings at some point, and then get over it. It doesn't mean he didn't love his wife or that he doesn't respect Rand. He just traveled with Egwene for a month and didn't make a move so I don't really don't think anything will happen between them -- he just got frustrated that Rand wasn't being that nice to her and Nyneave as usual lost her cool and made it into a much bigger deal than it actually was. I'll be mad if they make out next episode or something, but right now it just seems like Perrin thought she was cute at some point in the last 20 years but has also made every possible effort to not make things weird and has been extremely respectful of her clear interest in Rand instead.

 

In my opinion Rand came out of that interaction looking like the real jerk, not Perrin. He decides to accuse Perrin of only proposing to his wife because he and Egwene hooked up and Perrin was jealous...which is one of the lowest things you could possibly say to someone whose wife JUST DIED. "You might have a crush on my on-and-off-again girlfriend? Let me absolutely drag your whole marriage which just ended in tragedy!" I wanted Perrin to punch him at that point! Nyneave and Egwene run around apologizing for dredging stuff up but Rand is clearly already too busy being the chosen one to do anything other than sulk and shoot arrows. Niiiiiiiiiice.

 

 

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

35 minutes ago, WheelofJuke said:

And, Lan's duty vs. love softening and Nyn's maturation were great individual growth arcs that made the eventual union all the more satisfying. 

Lan never even softened. He was soft and open from the get-go. ? I agree with you that Lan should have been pushing her away and talking about duty for at least 2 seasons. In a vacuum, the TV relationship progresses just fine, but when you consider that this is supposed to be Lan we're talking about, it's kind of rushed forward at the expense of his character IMO. 

[DaddyFinn]

4 hours ago, NetNightmare said:

- 7 Episode of this building up of "who is the DR" and then he just walk up to her and say "Hello It's me", and she immediately believe it .... no question asked ... (poor Logain had an army was strong in the power and never had a chance")

Maybe they discussed it for some time before they left? Not everything has to be told or shown to the audience. We already got the important stuff from Rand's POV. No need to go through that again.

[Vartija]

Overall I really liked this episode. Out of all the episodes so far this had the most rewatch-value imo. I especially liked the first half, after that it got a little annoying on some parts. 

 

- Blood Snow looked intense. I liked the snow, the bodies on the ground etc, a well made set to me. The fighting looked intense. I don't know how realistic it was in its details but I felt immersed to it. Glad Tam wasn't there to do the dirty deed. If anything, they perhaps made him look too good in that scene. In my head canon I had him finding the baby with Tigraine already dead. 

- The Ways journey was ok, perhaps a bit short though. It didn't really look impressive enough as a setting to justify spending a lot more time there tbh. I would have liked one "calm" night there where the characters could have bonded a bit after spending so much time apart. A minor quibble about Rand kind of dissing Loial with the "we're going to die"-line; maybe I didn't catch the humour? They could have given more screen time to Loial, but I think much of that should have been done in the previous episode already.

- I cought Rand channeling to protect Egwene immediately. I liked that as it fits with book-Rand's major concern which is keeping Egwene safe. 

- Interesting concept with the Machin Sin. The only complaint I have about it is that it didn't really capture the terror of letting the wind catch you. The book established it much better with the certainty of going mad. Now it kind of felt like Machin Shin caught them, which certainly wasn't nice, but that it didn't cause much else but having their inner doubts and weaknesses forced to the forefront in their minds.

- I really liked the visuals in Fal Dara. The soldiers, their appearence, how they greeted Lan etc. Agelmar was perhaps a bit too rude for my liking but not so much that it ruins the character.

- I liked the bar scene with Min and how they made the visions. I was initially a little doubtful about her casting but she felt natural in that role. I liked Perrin spotting Padan Fain. Also liked Perrin explaining the Way of the Leaf to Rand: this scene had a similar good vibe as in the boys' introduction scene in Episode 1 before Perrin's burdens.  

- And then the "love triangle" scene... Yeah, I just flat out hated it more than anything else so far. I swear I audibly groaned and facepalmed when they started arguing. Just felt really soapy and teenage dramaish. When you know it's not even from the original source it makes it even worse. I just don't see why they have to create this kind of drama. Is it so bad to have them be just friends without this manufactured tension added to it? There's going to be plenty of arguments and disagreements in the future just by going with book events, this addition wasn't needed imo. And I realize the love triangle probably isn't a real thing in the show but still making them argue about it just felt so awkward to me. The time the EF3-5 spend together is so precious I just hate when it's spent with that kind of drama. The only good thing this scene established is Egwene's distrust of Mat and Rand's faith in him, but I think that could have been established in another setting. There's also a possibility it was part of Rand's "I'm the Dragon and I'm going to push these people away from me by being an ass"-shtick that in tGH, which would justify some of it, but we'll see.

- I liked Rand with the bow. The change from shooting a little off to hitting bullseyes when he captures the void felt neat. Overall I felt this was one of Josha's better performances in the show. I have doubted his range at times but now I'm back on the bandwagon.

- Yay! We got "Rand as a warder"-moment, even though it's kind of late for that when he realizes he's the Dragon in pretty much the next scene. 

- The flashbacks were really hasty. Better than nothing but I feel like there was potential for more. This went by so fast it felt like a bit of a blur. 

- There were good things in Lan & Nynaeve's story, but I kind of hope they had not done it just yet. I would have prefered this being a first date kind of thing but I understand the haste from the show's perspective. I just think this kind of downplays Lan's arc of feeling he will not commit to a relationship because he feels he's destined to die fighting the Shadow. I guess I have to chalk this up to book Lan not being show Lan. I liked Lan sharing his story to Nynaeve, but I understand the criticism that some have voiced that there was potential for more in that. 

- Not sure what to think of the fact Rand has already established himself as a male channeller when going to the Eye. I rather liked the scene in the book when it slowly dawns on him that he channelled and is the Dragon Reborn. The disbelief and terror he feels, Moiraine's and the others concern and pity at his fate. It also kind of complicates his tGH storyline of running from his destiny.

- Rand and Moiraine going alone to the Eye fits their character even though the logistics of it might not quite pass muster. God damn it Lan and his distractions always landing him in trouble. 

- The Blight looked like crap tbh. I would have been just fine with a barren, inhospitable looking land with some cgi weirdness added to it, but that... Are they just going to clamber through that wall of mangrove forest to the Eye? How are we supposed to see anything interesting in that setting.  

  

Edited December 17, 2021 by Vartija
typos

[Gothic Flame]

6 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Maybe they discussed it for some time before they left? Not everything has to be told or shown to the audience. We already got the important stuff from Rand's POV. No need to go through that again.

Yeah...thats what some people are doing; rationalizing moments to find coherence.

[dwn]

2 hours ago, flinn said:

Makes perfect sense to me.. When you go back and watch there are a lot of tells that Perrin is into Egwene. Then he has to go home to 2nd choice and pretend. Really lowers Perrins character, but I am getting used to all the men being lessened.

Well then, I guess it's a good thing Perrin will never ever have issues with women again.

 

[Mnemosyne]

2 hours ago, WheelofJuke said:

One may feel that sex does NOT necessarily cheapen relationships, and at the same time feel that delayed gratification through a tense, uncertain build up of romance *adds* to the relationship. 

 

Totally fair point. I love a slow burn story myself. But I felt the implication in the original post was that sex does necessarily cheapen relationships, without a 'waiting' period.

[orbops]

43 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

If your plan is for 8 seasons and these things are things you want to show then you have to pull them forward.   Much easier for them to put the brakes on things already in progress if they get more seasons then it is to wait to introduce them later.

 

8 seasons? If we're lucky Amazon will give us 3-6 seasons. Even network tv shows rarely go past 5 anymore.