tv show spoilers S1E6: The Flame of Tar Valon

[chri5]

Just now, flinn said:

 I am really beginning to think while Sarah understands how things work in WoT, she doesnt quite understand WHY things work. Jordan spent years upon years developing the physics behind his fantasy and every little change throws a butterfly effect into that.

I agree that I am not a fan of some of the explanations from the book expert either. 

 

Also, to be clear since I've been going on about this today, this is NOT the WOT adaption I would have made either. Mine would have been cooler for sure.  But I don't get to make mine, so I'll enjoy this one.

 

Does it kill me that Rand hasn't learned to play a flute?  Yeah, but I'm okay with it.

 

Do I wish someone had challenged Rand about his sword already? Yeah, but it's fine to hold that into season 2 or even the next two episodes.

 

Other things too.  Point being, I would have made changes in my version of WOT that others would disagree with, and I assume others would have too.

[chri5]

1 minute ago, Yojimbo said:

Where did I ever say I expected a word for word re-enactment.  Thanks for putting words into my mouth and telling me what I think.

 

 

YW.

 

You said you wanted them to say this was "not Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time".  They explicitly state that it is based on Robert Jordan's WOT which is telling you to expect changes to it.

[chri5]

1 minute ago, swollymammoth said:

If I only visit my grandma when I need a little extra Taco Bell money for the month, am I a respectful grandson?

 

This would depend upon your relationship with your grandma, and how harsh your TB addiction is.

[swollymammoth]

"A prophecy, misread might have been." 

 

This whole forum is Yoda from Attack of the Clones. (Note: This is not company you want to be keeping)

[swollymammoth]

1 minute ago, chri5 said:

 

This would depend upon your relationship with your grandma, and how harsh your TB addiction is.

It's pretty bad... as soon as they implemented the Build Your Own Box on the app, it was over for me. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by swollymammoth

[chri5]

4 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

"A prophecy, misread might have been." 

 

This whole forum is Yoda from Attack of the Clones. (Note: This is not company you want to be keeping)

 

I mean, the Seanchan though he would kneel to the Crystal Throne.  The Sharans thought he would do things off-stage that only Demandred knew. Rand thought he would die.

 

Everyone thought things about the DR, and only Fel knew the truth before :sadness:

 

I don't think I saw Attack of the Clones. :shrug:

Edited December 12, 2021 by chri5
spelling

[swollymammoth]

42 minutes ago, Katherine said:

Loial should have opened the ways. Period. Can anyone with a penis do anything of consequence? 

Only if that consequence ends up in a massive mistake, like Lan leading the party into Shadar Logoth against Moiraine's wishes. 

[JacJohns]

Wanted to vomit twice while watching this episode.

 

This show just keeps skipping over the good parts of the books for childish BS. They replaced elegant Aes Sedai politics with a silly squabble.

 

Why show any growth for the three main characters of the book when we can have grown women act like children in public? 

 

They need to stop Rafing the series so hard, all of the male characters have been neutered and sidelined. Kind of a bad call considering that the three main characters are all male.

 

Why do they even call this The Wheel of Time? Virtually nothing that matters from the books is in the show.

 

RJ probably rolling in his grave after every episode.

[WheelofJuke]

6 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

Ah, so they'll respect the lore by only including it where it's convenient? 

 

If I only visit my grandma when I need a little extra Taco Bell money for the month, am I a respectful grandson? 

 

The writers can say that they respect the lore all they want, but at the end of the day, they've always prioritized their vision of WoT over the actual WoT lore. 

 

If that isn't disrespect, I don't know what is. But then again, I don't even know why I'm bothering. The Stockholm Syndrome on this forum is stroooong, as evidenced by how nuts everyone goes when they see something that hasn't been changed. 

I'd respect their changes to the lore a heck of a lot more if it was self-contained, in that, it was baked into the show's writing, acting, etc. versus, say, filling in the gaps so to speak withnon-actual extras...I keep hearing about people checking this or that lore- of- the- show type thingy...

[Yojimbo]

7 minutes ago, chri5 said:

YW.

 

You said you wanted them to say this was "not Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time".  They explicitly state that it is based on Robert Jordan's WOT which is telling you to expect changes to it.

Again,  never said I was not expecting changes, which you accused me of saying.

 

I did expect changes.  I didn't expect so many of them would be god-awful changes. 

[chri5]

3 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

Only if that consequence ends up in a massive mistake, like Lan leading the party into Shadar Logoth against Moiraine's wishes. 

You both realize Moiraine opened the Waygate in Caemlyn in the books, right?  Not Loial or anyone else with a penis.

[MaxZorin]

5 hours ago, Sabio said:

I can cut them some slack with Perrin.  Rafe and Brandon did say the biggest challenge with Perrin is most of his dialogue in the book was internal 

What difference could that possibly make?   

They aren't using dialogue from the books for ANY characters, so why is Perrin noteworthy in this regard?

 

 

[chri5]

3 minutes ago, Yojimbo said:

I did expect changes.  I didn't expect so many of them would be god-awful changes. 

Fair enough.  Arguing over opinions is silly.

 

I actually think that if there were two episode discussion threads, one for people who are enjoying the series and one for people who are not enjoying the series, all of us would have a better time on this message board.

Edited December 12, 2021 by chri5

[swollymammoth]

Just now, chri5 said:

You both realize Moiraine opened the Waygate in Caemlyn in the books, right?  Not Loial or anyone else with a penis.

Yeah, and it's fine that Loial didn't. However, it was her point about the male characters being relegated to entirely passive roles that I was agreeing with. 

[swollymammoth]

3 minutes ago, Yojimbo said:

I did expect changes.  I didn't expect so many of them would be god-awful changes. 

This is a distinction that lots of people have a hard time wrapping their heads around. 

[WheelofJuke]

I'm not certain that would make for a better conversation. 

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

5 minutes ago, MaxZorin said:

What difference could that possibly make?   

They aren't using dialogue from the books for ANY characters, so why is Perrin noteworthy in this regard?

With Perrin specifically, it's a huge part of his character that he doesn't really talk much. Much of his character is developed via the reader eavesdropping on his thoughts. 

 

Thus, developing Perrin's character in the TV show is difficult because having him talk more would undermine this fundamental aspect of his character. 

 

That being said, the showrunners seemed to have no problem at all undermining all sorts of other things, so why they singled out this aspect of Perrin to try depicting accurately is a mystery to me. 

[Windigo]

On 12/10/2021 at 2:56 AM, The Purple Ajah said:

Yeah, Mat is getting the early Path of Daggers treatment.

 

I am not sure what they are going to do to bring him back, though we do have a year to theorize. It seemed unclear whether Mat got left behind because he was in a daze from being Healed, or because he didn't want to because some remaining evil of the dagger... after all, they could not shoot new footage with Barney, only edit what they already had.

 

The possibilities I see for bringing him back are that he goes back to Tar Valon for a while and is seen for the first time by Egwene and Nynaeve when they go to the Tower in early Season 2 (or even Elayne if she is a novice in Season 2), or if he tries to go ahead to Fal Dara to catch up with them and makes it by the first episode of Season 2.

Yeah I can not figure out the plot line changes for remaining books locations

Spoiler

The Horn

. The only thing I can see is building on Mat's reluctant hero.  

[Katherine]

15 minutes ago, chri5 said:

You both realize Moiraine opened the Waygate in Caemlyn in the books, right?  Not Loial or anyone else with a penis.

I really thought it was Loial the first time...... If I am wrong then I am wrong. 

 

 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

24 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

"A prophecy, misread might have been." 

 

This whole forum is Yoda from Attack of the Clones. (Note: This is not company you want to be keeping)

Why not - the little green guy got to show that he is as big a badass as a character played by Samuel L Jackson (which in my opinion is pretty far up the league of badassaery).

[RextheDog]

5 hours ago, Skipp said:

The assumption is that scene was filmed when they came back from the first covid shutdown.  They had finished principle filming on the first 6 episodes by that point.  Barney Harris' social media's went dark before they came back to filming.  So the thought is that he didn't come back at all and they had to reshoot the episode 6 ending to show Mat staying behind.

 

This is entirely speculation at this point as no one involved with the production has actually commented.

 

 

no no....you missunderstand me.

 

in the WOT universe.....why is the waygate closing? and if so, why doesnt she just reopen it from the inside and discuss with Mat his reasons for hesitating?

 

 

 

 

[WheelofJuke]

2 minutes ago, RextheDog said:

 

 

no no....you missunderstand me.

 

in the WOT universe.....why is the waygate closing? and if so, why doesnt she just reopen it from the inside and discuss with Mat his reasons for hesitating?

 

 

 

 

Either, "just because" or "WAFO."

Edited December 12, 2021 by WheelofJuke
quote cleanup

[Cheetaiean]

The Siuan Sanche casting is horrible (both in similarity to the book Siuan and in her acting), as is the general garish alien dress of the Amyrlin. Feels like those who approve only say so because she did a good job in some other tv show so has some brand recognition. She's only in the show because Rosamund Pike was friends with her beforehand and apparently Rafe Judkins likes her from somewhere too. 

On the plus side, Madeleine Madden (Egwene) played her part very well this episode and her naive youthful mannerisms really brought early-WoT series Egwene into the tv show! Excited to see more of her. 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

24 minutes ago, RextheDog said:

no no....you missunderstand me.

 

in the WOT universe.....why is the waygate closing? and if so, why doesnt she just reopen it from the inside and discuss with Mat his reasons for hesitating?

Loial briefly mentioned the time dilation effect in E6 (although I did not notice them attempting it visually when it was in the book descriptions).  Briefly only because he was interrupted which is very Loial.  Since time dilation is in show cannon then i) by the time it is re-opened Mat will have had enough time to make himself scarce and they will not want to spend more time chasing him down ii) now they are in the ways time is more precious and they must press on.  In addition she may be discounting him as a dragon candidate by now (or at least as a useful one if he is).

[Therese Sedai]

33 minutes ago, Cheetaiean said:

The Siuan Sanche casting is horrible (both in similarity to the book Siuan and in her acting), as is the general garish alien dress of the Amyrlin. Feels like those who approve only say so because she did a good job in some other tv show so has some brand recognition. She's only in the show because Rosamund Pike was friends with her beforehand and apparently Rafe Judkins likes her from somewhere too. 

On the plus side, Madeleine Madden (Egwene) played her part very well this episode and her naive youthful mannerisms really brought early-WoT series Egwene into the tv show! Excited to see more of her. 

What’s wrong with her acting? I thought she did a good job even though I’ve never seen her in anything else before.