tv show spoilers S1E6: The Flame of Tar Valon

[ManetherenTaveren]

1 hour ago, AusLeviathan said:

Moiraine said she didn't know Nynaeve could channel, which means she can't sense if a person can channel, so how did she know Egwene could channel.

That was another oddity. Siuan is supposed to be able to detect if a person is ta'veren too. She stood right in front of them and did not seem to notice if either Nynaeve or Egwene was ta'veren. So...are we back to 3 ta'veren from TR now?

Edited December 10, 2021 by ManetherenTaveren

[SinisterDeath]

3 minutes ago, ManetherenTaveren said:

That was another oddity. Siuan is supposed to be able to detect if a person is ta'veren too. She stood right in front of her and did not seem to notice if either Nynaeve or Siuan was ta'veren. So...are we back to 3 ta'veren from TR now?

I took what she said as she didn't know she was that powerful, not that she didn't know she couldn't channel at all...

I'll have to review that scene for the exact wording.
Course, there's always the Moiraine is BA or removed the Oaths theory...

[Raezold]

9 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

Yes. It's in the background amongst the mountains @ 2:19 . You can see the bridge leading to it more clearly. 

 

And I think it's Fain at 24:05 in an orange jacket in street.

 

 

vs

 

 

Not Fain. Other coat, different hair. Also, they'd definitely would've shown his face if it was him.

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

9 minutes ago, Raezold said:

Never mind, didn't see your other post. The one in the corner talking to some woman? Doubt that's Fain.

 

No...in the scene where the dude with orange jacket is walking down the street...at the very end in the shadows is a guy with what looks like Fains same jacket. It's subtle. Maybe it's not. 

[Pandemonium]

did nynaaeve meet siaun in her bedroom or her main office?  i hope that was a bedroom because it wasn't very stately

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

5 minutes ago, Raezold said:

 

 

vs

 

 

Not Fain. Other coat, different hair. Also, they'd definitely would've shown his face if it was him.

 

No no. At the end, look at the gateway area he walks in. Pause at 24:08 and zoom in on the arch.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Wolfbrother31

[Harad the White]

7 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

Hope?

I hate the food in this restaurant. And such small portions!

[Mnemosyne]

19 hours ago, Owayn The Traveller said:

It’s just not very good. I love the books and while I’d like something closer to it, I’m a realist and was expecting changes. 
Changes that made the story play better on screen but it hasn’t been that way so far. 
Sone of the changes make little sense. 
For example, why change the ways like that. It was made by the power but you dint need to use the power to use it. Really sad that the imagery of the Avensdora wasn’t used. How do the shadowspawn use them now? How does Fain talk to Machin Shin? 
5 headed dragon, come on. 
Im watching this with a non-book reader and the only reason she’s continuing to watch is because she knows I love the series. A friends wife is doing the same with him but she thinks it terrible and she likes the Witcher and Game of thrones tv shows. 
The sets look cheap at times, the acting is woeful, it’s very melodramatic, it’s too serious with no real levity. 
nothing looks lived in, they look like sets. 
the costumes design is good at times but everything looks too clean.

 

and before someone gets snarky and says ‘I dint need to watch’ or ‘thanks for watching this far and good luck’, don’t. I’ll be watching to the end in hope that Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time makes an appearance. 
Im a stubborn, woolheaded shepherded like that. 

 

Yeah. I'm starting to feel this way too. I really, really want to like it, and I was really excited after episode 4, but have felt very let down by the last 2 episodes.

 

For me it's not so much that it doesn't feel like Wheel of Time. It's more that it's just not a very good story the way they are telling it.

 

Agree especially about:

• changes that don't make the story play better on screen - again, I don't mind the changes in and of themselves, but taken on their own merits they still just don't work for me
• set looks cheap and "set-like"
• overly melodramatic - case in point from this episode being Moiraine's oath

Although I will say that friends of mine who haven't read the books are still enjoying the show.

 

And I too will be watching to the end, and next season as well, no matter what.

[KakitaOCU]

1 hour ago, AusLeviathan said:

Moiraine and Siuan have secret Ter'angreal allowing them to meet with each other, yet Moiraine has left this Ter'angreal behind whilst on her journey rather than taking it and keeping in communication with Siuan despite the Ter'angreal being small enough to travel with.

 

The Ter'Angreal built into the wall, exactly how is she taking that with her?

 

1 hour ago, AusLeviathan said:

Moiraine said she didn't know Nynaeve could channel, which means she can't sense if a person can channel, so how did she know Egwene could channel.

 

Aes Sedai trickery with the oath, she thought the block and her age made her unable to reliably channel.  Or they took that out, which changes... nothing about the plot.

 

1 hour ago, AusLeviathan said:

The One Power is required to open the Ways but Ogier can create the Waygates, why would they create something that they're unable to use for themselves.

 

Or the Leaves are missing from that one and the OP is an alternate, several people jumped to that idea in the last few pages.

 

1 hour ago, AusLeviathan said:

A fourth Oath can now be forced upon an Aes Sedai without objection from other Aes Sedai, this creates a lot of plot issues for later in the series.

 

Does it?  How so?

 

1 hour ago, AusLeviathan said:

The tower guard is filled with female guards and yet we're not seeing any female warders (because of course they want to save the first female warder character for later but since the show has made it acceptable for women to be soldiers/guards in Tar Valon this doesn't really make sense).

 

Customs don't always make sense and yet can hold for centuries.

 

 

1 hour ago, AusLeviathan said:

Moiraine has dedicated 20 years of her life to finding the Dragon because of Gitara's prophecy, Moiraine is also willing to entertain the idea that a random Gleeman's story of a many headed Dragon might be more accurate than the prophecy she heard from a woman who gave her life to give which has shaped Moiraine's choices in her life.

 

Not willing to entertain, she uses it as a ridiculous example to spell her point that every single translation disagrees and not always in logical ways.  This isn't a plothole, this is a discussion point.

 

1 hour ago, AusLeviathan said:

Moiraine's oath in the hall to Siuan is worded in such a way that  it would be impossible for the Hall not to realize that something is going on there and if the justification is the Hall didn't hear it then why are the Hall just trusting that this oath is what they think it is.

 

Because Siuan echoed it loudly and people believe what they want to believe.  Why would Moraine say anything different that the Amyrlin would accept?  Again, expectations and custom hold strong.

 

1 hour ago, AusLeviathan said:

Moiraine said she'd rather kill the EF5 then let the shadow have them, she also stood by as Mat refused to follow her and did nothing, allowing him to get away from her and risking the shadow would get him.

 

They all notice as it's closing.  What exatly was she supposed to do?  Stay with the other 4 and hope he hasn't doomed them, or leap through on her own, leaving the other 4 trapped with just Lan for protection and her with no way to reliably get to the Eye in time?

 

1 hour ago, AusLeviathan said:

An Aes Sedai can be exiled solely by the Amyrlin Seat's decision, this creates massive plot issues for later in the series.

 

Elaida does it frequently.

Honestly, these aren't plot holes, these are you grasping at straws over things that have answers if you think for a few seconds.

[ManetherenTaveren]

5 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

I took what she said as she didn't know she was that powerful, not that she didn't know she couldn't channel at all...

Apologies for the confusion. I switched gears and was commenting on Siuan's inability to notice ta'veren in either Egwene or Nynaeve (which conflicts with the "4 ta'veren in TR" quote from ep 1) . I didn't comment on her channeling sense.

[SinisterDeath]

1 minute ago, ManetherenTaveren said:

Apologies for the confusion. I switched gears and was commenting on Siuan's inability to notice ta'veren in either Egwene or Nynaeve (which conflicts with the "4 ta'veren in TR" quote from ep 1) . I didn't comment on her channeling sense.

Weird, I swear I replied to something about Moiraine's inability to sense Nynaeve's ability to channel. Or is that what you mean by switching gears?

[Raezold]

7 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

No no. At the end, look at the gateway area he walks in. Pause at 24:08 and zoom in on the arch.

 

Hm, I think I get what you mean, but don't see it as Fain.
But who knows.

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

7 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

Honestly, these aren't plot holes, these are you grasping at straws over things that have answers if you think for a few seconds.

 

Bro. Way more so the case that you're grasping at straws to defend bad writing decisions ... 

 

And I really think most of the problems would be shored up if they weren't playing up the "Who is the Dragon?" ... 

Which, hopefully the reveal is cool, because the set up has not been. 

 

Also ... I don't think ... as has been suggested, that Matt was left-behind because of the actor change. Is there any info that suggests this is the case or just speculation? I think it's intential so we get more dagger/Fain action. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Wolfbrother31

[fra85uk]

7 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

I hate the food in this restaurant. And such small portions!

 

But you can't compare food to a TV show.

I don't like the show but is still based on the series of books that I really love.

It is unfair to say "don't watch it" to  people that point out how this show is terribly flawed on multiple aspects (from adaptation issues to bad filming etc. etc.).

 

There are a lot of horrible tv shows (at least two made by Rafe :P) but only WoT show can bother (some) WoT fans.

Edited December 10, 2021 by fra85uk

[Finfolfin]

2 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

 

The Ter'Angreal built into the wall, exactly how is she taking that with her?

 

Was it built into the wall or fixed? It isn't explained. They suddenly have ter'angreal to travel now? in the tower?

2 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

 

Aes Sedai trickery with the oath, she thought the block and her age made her unable to reliably channel.  Or they took that out, which changes... nothing about the plot.

This is being disingenous . We all want to the show to succeed but moiraine knew that Nynaeve could chanell early , on the way to Baerlon she nearly lets it slip to Egwene

2 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

 

 

Or the Leaves are missing from that one and the OP is an alternate, several people jumped to that idea in the last few pages.

 

2 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

 

 

Does it?  How so?

 

 

Customs don't always make sense and yet can hold for centuries.

 

 

 

Not willing to entertain, she uses it as a ridiculous example to spell her point that every single translation disagrees and not always in logical ways.  This isn't a plothole, this is a discussion point.

 

 

Because Siuan echoed it loudly and people believe what they want to believe.  Why would Moraine say anything different that the Amyrlin would accept?  Again, expectations and custom hold strong.

 

 

They all notice as it's closing.  What exatly was she supposed to do?  Stay with the other 4 and hope he hasn't doomed them, or leap through on her own, leaving the other 4 trapped with just Lan for protection and her with no way to reliably get to the Eye in time?

 

 

Elaida does it frequently.

And Elaida sows distrust amongst the Aes Sedai by doing this and it makes her a horrible Amyrlin

2 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

 

 

 

 

Honestly, these aren't plot holes, these are you grasping at straws over things that have answers if you think for a few seconds.

You are making excuses for bad writing. Its ok for us as book fans to fill these holes but for non book readers it will seem strange at best

[Harad the White]

Just now, Mnemosyne said:

Although I will say that friends of mine who haven't read the books are still enjoying the show.

Bingo. There is a correlation between those that read the Book and those that object to  characters, plot points, and, yes, set design. On the other hand, in the Book forum, there are some who complained long and loud about parts of the Book. The Amazon Series is based upon the Book and might even, heresy follows,

Spoiler

improve on some aspects of presentation, and solve problems pointed out in the Book.

Thanks, for no threat to stop watching. That always raises concerns.

[ManetherenTaveren]

1 minute ago, SinisterDeath said:

Weird, I swear I replied to something about Moiraine's inability to sense Nynaeve's ability to channel. Or is that what you mean by switching gears?

Channeling sense was the other member's concern. Mine was sensing ta'veren. ? 

[Gothic Flame]

15 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

Hope?

That explains a third of the viewership. 

Another third goes to the "train wreck viewers that can't seem to look away.

And the other third seems to be entertained...enough.

 

Just how it seems to me anyway.

[SinisterDeath]

Just now, ManetherenTaveren said:

Channeling sense was the other member's concern. Mine was sensing ta'veren.

Ah, musta hit quote on the wrong post or something.

[Finfolfin]

Just now, Harad the White said:

Bingo. There is a correlation between those that read the Book and those that object to  characters, plot points, and, yes, set design. On the other hand, in the Book forum, there are some who complained long and loud about parts of the Book. The Amazon Series is based upon the Book and might even, heresy follows,

  Reveal hidden contents

improve on some aspects of presentation, and solve problems pointed out in the Book.

Thanks, for no threat to stop watching. That always raises concerns.

Its rated badly on metacritic. I'm talking cowboy bebop territory.

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, Gothic Flame said:

And the other third seems to be entertained.

So many!

[WheelofJuke]

17 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Why continue to go into the store?

 

16 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

Hope?

 

I do not have any more hope this is salvageable, alas!

 

However, I do feel a certain obligation to bear witness. It's like, "Hey, a crime is happening!" *totally ignores perp*

 

No! It's all eyeballs on deck to bear witness to this abomination, to testify, and to see justice done. ? ? ?

[KakitaOCU]

33 minutes ago, Finfolfin said:

Im genuinely worried it will get cancelled

24 reviews of which only 2 are actually negative and 8 are positive.

Meanwhile Rotten Tomatoes with 70 critic reviews is at 84%.  I think we're okay.

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, Finfolfin said:

Its rated badly on metacritic. I'm talking cowboy bebop territory.

When ratings are bad I agree.

When ratings are good, c'mon man, who believes in ratings?

[Gothic Flame]

1 minute ago, Finfolfin said:

Its rated badly on metacritic. I'm talking cowboy bebop territory.

That's...yeah that's bad. (Canceled that one quick enough)