Question about Nyvaeve's Healing

[Lucie]

Hi guys, I'm a Chinese reader of WoT & I just starti to read the English version.

Pls forgive me if someone has asked this question before.

 

We know that Nynave is unable to channel unless extremly angry. But Verin and other Aes Sedai said she has already channeled before entering the Tower. She has done so in healing people back at Emond's Field. - So that's my question : Does it mean she always got vexed in front of her patients? That looks a little extragerate even for a Wisdom. Even for Nynaeve. 

The only possible answer that I can imagine is: She was angry about herself, for unable to heal with her herbs soon enough, well enough. But still, that feels awkward...

 

I don't know if there's sth wrong about the Chinese translation I read, or it's about the figure of Nynaeve herself. Sometimes it seems she fusses for nothing... I just can't see why she's angry, though I like her enough...

[SinisterDeath]

She often gets angry at people for getting injured in the first place.

She got angry at her inability to heal certain illnesses. Anger is often born from Frustration. She's the villages Wisdom, but she's also really young for a Wisdom. She feels as if people don't listen to her because of her age. That if the villagers listened to her, instead of being so hard headed, they wouldn't get sick in the first place.

[Lucie]

33 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

She often gets angry at people for getting injured in the first place.

She got angry at her inability to heal certain illnesses. Anger is often born from Frustration. She's the villages Wisdom, but she's also really young for a Wisdom. She feels as if people don't listen to her because of her age. That if the villagers listened to her, instead of being so hard headed, they wouldn't get sick in the first place.

 

Thank you! 

(In China we have a saying for people like Nynaeve: She's eaten gunpowder. lol oh but I like her so much. )

[Elgee]

4 hours ago, Lucie said:

In China we have a saying for people like Nynaeve: She's eaten gunpowder.

 

Oh my word that describes her perfectly! ?

 

I think another thing is also that the act of Healing is one of Robert Jordan's worst thought out things. If you really sit down and think about it (like we extremely nerdy Role Players did), it doesn't really make sense. Things got a bit backwards, in my opinion.

[Lucie]

On 5/11/2021 at 1:18 AM, Elgee said:

 

Oh my word that describes her perfectly! ?

 

I think another thing is also that the act of Healing is one of Robert Jordan's worst thought out things. If you really sit down and think about it (like we extremely nerdy Role Players did), it doesn't really make sense. Things got a bit backwards, in my opinion.

 

Oh why? Could you explain it furthur?

To me Healing is really like magic in Harry Potter, it just happens. No physical explication. 

[Elgee]

The basis of Robert Jordan's world building is that it's grounded in science. There is much less "random magic" like Harry Potter, and much more "hey that could maybe just be possible if we humans evolved a bit" like Anne McCaffrey's Pegasus series (where humans can use kinetic abilities, etc).

Simply put, the ability to wield the One Power and form weaves is a well thought out "science". The one part where it fails, is the Healing part.

For instance, it's mentioned several times that the "current" method of Healing is basically one single Weave. Some can do it well, and some don't have much ability to do it.

To quote WoT Wiki:

Quote

According to Cadsuane Melaidhrin, she is the best Healer among living Aes Sedai and the best that the Tower has seen in centuries, perhaps ever^[3]. She has the ability to modulate perfectly the strength of the Healing weave accordingly to necessity (which very few people can do), meaning she can control the extent to which Healing will heal a person (and the amount of energy it will cost that person's body). This is very useful for dealing with life-threatening injuries, as shown when she Healed [spoiler] (if she had used too strong a weave, he would have been killed by the shock). She has also the same ability with Healing as a full circle.

 

So. One Weave. Why does it then take them years and years of studying, to learn ONE Weave??

Makes no sense.

 

There's more, but I'm out of time for now ?

[icspots]

Re: Nynaeve healing when angry.  She comments to Moiraine (when confronted about being able to channel) about Healing Egwene (thus why she was able to track her) that the prior Wisdom had told her Egwene would recover from breakbone fever.  Nynaeve got so so upset/angry thinking she was watching Egwene die in front of her that she channeled and Healed her.  The Wisdom was upset and grilled her about what she did to cure her so quickly, sure she must have done [i]something[/i].  Then she comments that a week later she got really sick, this as a result of channeling for the first time.

Re: it taking years and years to learn “one weave”.  Modern Aes Sedai only knew one kind of Healing.  As commented by ... Semirrhage?... that Healing was only the sloppiest kind of battlefield Healing used in the AoL.  As we know from all Channeling some people do better with particular weaves than others, so it’s not surprising that some are better at Healing than others since they’re all learning the same thing.  Some have a Talent of some sort, or are Healing savants and can do as quoted above in varying what’s done, how it’s done, and to what degree.  It’s still not much compared to full Healing, though takes less effort on the part of the Channeler.  Modern Aes Sedai are pretty moribund where it comes to learning different things.  I’m sure there are some kinds of Healing an otherwise poor Healer could learn.  but if they only have one tool some are just going to suck at doing it.

[Lucie]

On 5/12/2021 at 9:34 PM, Elgee said:

The basis of Robert Jordan's world building is that it's grounded in science. There is much less "random magic" like Harry Potter, and much more "hey that could maybe just be possible if we humans evolved a bit" like Anne McCaffrey's Pegasus series (where humans can use kinetic abilities, etc).

Simply put, the ability to wield the One Power and form weaves is a well thought out "science". The one part where it fails, is the Healing part.

For instance, it's mentioned several times that the "current" method of Healing is basically one single Weave. Some can do it well, and some don't have much ability to do it.

To quote WoT Wiki:

 

So. One Weave. Why does it then take them years and years of studying, to learn ONE Weave??

Makes no sense.

 

There's more, but I'm out of time for now ?

 

Curiously, this One-weave Healing reminds me of Chinese acupuncture: one tool, seemingly non-sense, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. After years of practice, one may still be a novice; after  years of study we still don't quite understand it. However, if we accept the basic concepts of qi (energy of life, which is also describe as a "flow"), we can see that there do be a theory behind it. Maybe RJ did the same when he was thinking over about the Healing. ?  

[Lucie]

On 5/13/2021 at 10:31 AM, icspots said:

Re: Nynaeve healing when angry.  She comments to Moiraine (when confronted about being able to channel) about Healing Egwene (thus why she was able to track her) that the prior Wisdom had told her Egwene would recover from breakbone fever.  Nynaeve got so so upset/angry thinking she was watching Egwene die in front of her that she channeled and Healed her.  The Wisdom was upset and grilled her about what she did to cure her so quickly, sure she must have done [i]something[/i].  Then she comments that a week later she got really sick, this as a result of channeling for the first time.

Re: it taking years and years to learn “one weave”.  Modern Aes Sedai only knew one kind of Healing.  As commented by ... Semirrhage?... that Healing was only the sloppiest kind of battlefield Healing used in the AoL.  As we know from all Channeling some people do better with particular weaves than others, so it’s not surprising that some are better at Healing than others since they’re all learning the same thing.  Some have a Talent of some sort, or are Healing savants and can do as quoted above in varying what’s done, how it’s done, and to what degree.  It’s still not much compared to full Healing, though takes less effort on the part of the Channeler.  Modern Aes Sedai are pretty moribund where it comes to learning different things.  I’m sure there are some kinds of Healing an otherwise poor Healer could learn.  but if they only have one tool some are just going to suck at doing it.

 

Wow thank you! 

Btw, when I read the first three volumes of WoT I think modern Aes Sedai are really powerful. But facing the Forsakens and compared to ancient Aes Sedai, they are so powerless, so weak.... Human after all.  

[icspots]

On 5/15/2021 at 8:01 PM, Lucie said:

 

Wow thank you! 

Btw, when I read the first three volumes of WoT I think modern Aes Sedai are really powerful. But facing the Forsakens and compared to ancient Aes Sedai, they are so powerless, so weak.... Human after all.  

Yeah, modern AS really the impressive things (other than Warder bonds, etc) it’s the individuals who are the big exceptions in the comparison.  But also AoL AS training was much more comprehensive in general, plus they lived about twice as long without the 3 oaths.  Don’t forget, the Forsaken are powerful, well trained, and experienced, but they’re also every bit as human as the modern AS, and several times fall victim to that hubris that they must inevitably actually be better than modern channelers.

Obviously channeling groups outside of the AS don’t fall victim to the same issues in many cases.

[Sabio]

Back in the Forsaken time, they were always trying to find better ways and new uses for the power.  In Rand's time the Aes Sedai strongly discourage experimenting with the power.  In the Big White Book it even says the Yellow Ajah believes that what they know about healing is the best that can be done,  So there is little desire to risk burning yourself out to explore new weaves.  So most simply never try.  

It is also a failure of the Seachean, where their channelers are never allowed the freedom to find better weaves.  They are mostlly used as weapons or finding stuff like ore,, there is no desire to find new weaves unless they capture a channeler with better knowledge.

[Lucie]

On 6/19/2021 at 5:45 AM, Sabio said:

Back in the Forsaken time, they were always trying to find better ways and new uses for the power.  In Rand's time the Aes Sedai strongly discourage experimenting with the power.  In the Big White Book it even says the Yellow Ajah believes that what they know about healing is the best that can be done,  So there is little desire to risk burning yourself out to explore new weaves.  So most simply never try.  

It is also a failure of the Seachean, where their channelers are never allowed the freedom to find better weaves.  They are mostlly used as weapons or finding stuff like ore,, there is no desire to find new weaves unless they capture a channeler with better knowledge.

Thanks! Gonna check the BWB ~

[Harldin]

On 6/19/2021 at 7:45 AM, Sabio said:

Back in the Forsaken time, they were always trying to find better ways and new uses for the power.  In Rand's time the Aes Sedai strongly discourage experimenting with the power.  In the Big White Book it even says the Yellow Ajah believes that what they know about healing is the best that can be done,  So there is little desire to risk burning yourself out to explore new weaves.  So most simply never try.  

It is also a failure of the Seachean, where their channelers are never allowed the freedom to find better weaves.  They are mostlly used as weapons or finding stuff like ore,, there is no desire to find new weaves unless they capture a channeler with better knowledge.

And they certainly don’t use Damane for healing, there is several occurrences where Seanchan freak out at the mere thought of being healed with the One Power.