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imlad

Did Jordan change Taim because of fan theories?

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Over the years I've seen comments from people insinuating that Robert Jordan changed the Mazrim Taim storyline into something different because fans had deduced in their theories that he was actually Demandred (I was one of those many people supporting this theory back in the day, it was pretty convincing for a long time there). Obviously we now know the Taimandred theory not to be true, but is that because Jordan changed his plans due to the fans? Or are these rumors I've seen and heard just baseless rubbish?

Edited by imlad

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A post from Terez back in Novemeber 2105 titled Bits from RJ's notes shows that Taimadred was actually true in LOC.  So RJ did a little Aes Sadai play with words when he said Tain and Dem aren't the same.  There is nothing from RJ showing why he changed it but my guess is too many guessed it and he felt like it sort of ruined it or he figured having Taimadred would pose a problem for how to get the Shara people involved later.

 

https://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8767,   There is also another big shocker in the notes.

Edited by Sabio

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Thanks @Sabio, good to know. Now the question is, was that the right thing for him to do? I'm not sure if I would do the same, but I haven't published any fiction yet, so I can't understand his situation. I do know that George RR Martin has said (and followed through) that he won't change his story because fans figure something out (namely the now famous formula of R+L=J).

Edited by imlad

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18 hours ago, imlad said:

Now the question is, was that the right thing for him to do?


I'm a latecomer to this series, I only started in after Towers of Midnight was published.  So obviously I wasn't part of all that speculation and theories put out by fans at that time.  I did become quite active (for me) in Dragonmount and to a lesser degree Theoryland, quite impatiently awaiting aMoL. 

That we now have the evidence public from Terez's post on Theoryland that @Sabio linked regarding Taimandred , I am a bit taken aback for several reasons. 
- I had not known that Terez was one of the Taimandred believers (or Jason, for that matter, but I've never had personal interactions with him). 
- I am surprised that she (Terez) made it public in 2015 and that I'm only now finding it for the first time (bad on me...).
- I had always taken RJs denial of it as absolute truth 

After a few days to think it over, it still seems to bring RJs memory, or better said as his integrity, down a notch in my mind, but only by a single notch.  I remember reading that RJ was an active lurker on fan forums, and it's easy for me to speculate that was because in his mind he was not only writing an epic fantasy, but also writing a mystery series.  He clearly loved to be able to surprise his audience.  He also loved to give his characters their Moments of Awesome  (previous phrase is copyrighted/trademarked to Leigh Butler, used without permission) at times that readers weren't expecting them.

Given his penchant for this, I can on one hand personally forgive him for changing his book(s) simply because his fans had figured something out, and he wouldn't be able to have the grand reveal at the time of his choosing.  But on the other hand, it makes me wonder if possibly this was the impetus/catalyst that started the whole backslide into the overly long side plots of death?

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On 11/3/2019 at 3:24 PM, 2RiversFan said:


- I had not known that Terez was one of the Taimandred believers (or Jason, for that matter, but I've never had personal interactions with him). 
 

 

I don't know about other sites, but from what I recall, over at wotmania (or was it RAFO at the time? I can't remember when we switched over sites) it seemed that Taimandred was the dominant theory, or at least more people seemed to agree with it than argued against it. It was a pretty solid case for a very long time, so I wouldn't be surprised to find out that any given person had been an adherent to this particular theory; quite the opposite: I'd be surprised to find out they weren't an adherent if they were reading and theorizing back in those days. That's just my experience though.

 

That other tidbit, the one about Asmo.... oh s??t! That was actually who I thought dunnit for the longest time. I was like the last person in the world to believe the Graendal solution (even after reading the theories I wasn't convinced she did it until it was laid out for us in the books). i just didn't get that one right at all. See world, I can admit when I am wrong.

Edited by imlad

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I really hope he didn't change it just because fans figured it out and all of his antics, especially so-called Aiel doesn't make sense unless he was Demandred.

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RJ was way off on it being obvious who killed Asmo, regardless of who did it.  Since before Asmo was killed, Dem wasn't in the series much and with a lot of work you could come to Graendal doing it but it was in no way obvious.

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