Concerning Gawyn

[tkarrde421]

I know he's everyone's least favorite character.  I'm not immune to this.  However, rather than focusing on the like/dislike of the character, I starting thinking about Gawyn's motivations, and the "why" he is what he is.  Psychoanalyzing him was more interesting than I expected it to be.

 

It seems to me that Gawyn grew up without a sense of self.  He was told from birth that his life wasn't as important as the life of his sister.  Even his mother, in her secret thoughts, worries way more about the safety of her daughter than her son.  I think that he took this lesson to heart.  I think his feelings towards Egwene was a subconscious rebellion against the path that he'd been forced to follow (and maybe even a resentment of his mother's favoritism).  He needed a reason to rebel, and Egwene presented a perfect target.  However, this rebellion can only progress so far.  His whole life was dedicated to the protection of his sister.  That's all he knows.  But when he finds that Egwene returns his "feelings", he transfers his dedication from Elayne to Egwene.  But Egwene never needed/wanted his protection.  Gareth Bryne tries to teach him this lesson when they meet again at Egwene's camp, but Gawyn never really was able to overcome the "my life before hers" mentality that was instilled in him at birth.  I don't believe his desire for Egwene was ever real (nor hers for him, to be honest).  Gawyn is incapable of love, because he doesn't know how to appreciate/love himself.  His only sense of worth was in how well he can keep someone else from dying.

 

Gawyn is a truly tragic character.  But at the same time he's perhaps the greatest example in the WoT books of the point that Jordan hammered home again and again: real life seldom reflects the story books.  Handsome prince meets pretty village girl and they live happily ever after.  In the story books, every one of Gawyn's decisions would be the right one, and his brother's "black and white" view of the world would prove his downfall.

 

Conclusion: Gawyn suffers from mommy issues.

[Sabio]

Gawyn issue was he wanted to be the hero,  hence why he resented Rand, a mere farmer, for being the Dragon reborn.  Is his mind that was something a prince or king should be.  He wanted to be the Dragon Reborn, the one to be in the history books.  It's why he runs off to fight Dem alone, because he isn't happy as a mere bodyguard, he wanted to do something heroic.  When he didn't feel like Egwene wanted him he runs to Elayne.  He wanted people to say they needed him.  I don't doubt he loved Egwene, but they both suffered from the they need to do everything themselves and wanted the honors, neither wanted to give orders, they wanted to be the one doing the stuff.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Sabio

[tkarrde421]

I don't know, i feel like you're giving Gawyn's character WAY too much credit.  He's as two-dimensional as they come, and his thinking is likewise obtuse.  Jordan makes it quite clear that Gawyn's sole motivation for his hatred of Rand was the murder of Morgase.  He didn't even have the wit to show jealousy over his "beloved's" ex-boyfriend.  At least THAT would be a normal human motivation.

 

I think you're onto something, though, concerning the "need to be a hero" syndrome though.  But I think you can tie that back to how he was raised, as well.  He was born and raised to respond to duty before desire.  When his mother died he reacted not as a grieving son, but to the personal failure that needs to be avenged.  He was unable to protect his mother, so he takes it out on Rand.  He was unable to protect his sister, so he takes it out on Siuan's leadership.  Egwene won't let him protect her, so he throws his life away (much like Lan wanted to do before he met Nynaeve, actually).

 

He has a NEED to be a hero, but I don't think it's what he wants.  It's the only thing he knows.  He needs a cause, because when you peel away his superficial layers, you find nothing beneath.

[Sabio]

Ohh I hate Gawyn, there was never a lot of powerful thinking coming from him.  I just cut him a little slack since he suffers a lot from what RJ's men suffer from.  The reluctant I must do my duty syndrome.  He is just also annoyingly dumb about how he does almost everything.  I agree there is nothing beneath his superficial layers.

 

Gawyn on the surface hated Rand because of Morgase death, but that was just an easy excuse.  I mean after enough people told you he didn't do it you should suspect it's a possibility.  But we do see his main reason for hating Rand was that a mere shepard was the Dragon Reborn.  He was the typical I am a noble so I am entiled to greatness and how dare this commoner go beyond his lowly status to become the dragon reborn type.  I could even go with that and be fine with it, but the you killed my mom thing going on for so long just made him seem like a moron.

 

But you also saw in the last book, he finally was protecting Egwene but it wasn't enough.  He needed greatness so he goes off to be the one to kill Dem.   Staying in the back and guarding his Aes Sedai wasn't enough for him.  Or simply being in some fighting, wasn't enough.  He had to do something great.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Sabio

[DemandredFO]

Gawyn was told all his life about being special and Elayne's protector. Then, his sister turns out to be a superweapon and Rand is well Rand. Also he's a follower who eventually realized he was following the wrong leader.

Personally, I think that's giving gawyn and RJ too much credit since I think RJ wrote Gawyn for one story but a different one happened. 

[Apple151]

He is not everyone's least favorite character..  in fact overwhelmingly prefered to Galad for ex easy.. by myself.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Apple151

[jsbrads]

Prefer Gawyn to most.

dislike Egwene, Elayne and Min.

[Kat_152]

I like Gawyn.  He saves Egwene and you know that he truly does love her because when Egwene bonds him it tells you how she can feel his love.

[DemandredFO]

I'd like to know what the original plan for Gawyn was?

[Sabio]

Gawyn is one character that wouldn't be missed if he was cut from the book.  I honestly can't figure out what Gawyn was for except to give Egwene a love interest.   None of his logic or actions ever made sense, even putting on those rings to go fight Dem, made no logical sense, he knew those rings would kill him even if he won the fight.  

Edited April 1, 2019 by Sabio

[CrystallineTart]

On 1/7/2019 at 11:07 PM, tkarrde421 said:

I know he's everyone's least favorite character.  I'm not immune to this.  However, rather than focusing on the like/dislike of the character, I starting thinking about Gawyn's motivations, and the "why" he is what he is.  Psychoanalyzing him was more interesting than I expected it to be.

 

It seems to me that Gawyn grew up without a sense of self.  He was told from birth that his life wasn't as important as the life of his sister.  Even his mother, in her secret thoughts, worries way more about the safety of her daughter than her son.  I think that he took this lesson to heart.  I think his feelings towards Egwene was a subconscious rebellion against the path that he'd been forced to follow (and maybe even a resentment of his mother's favoritism).  He needed a reason to rebel, and Egwene presented a perfect target.  However, this rebellion can only progress so far.  His whole life was dedicated to the protection of his sister.  That's all he knows.  But when he finds that Egwene returns his "feelings", he transfers his dedication from Elayne to Egwene.  But Egwene never needed/wanted his protection.  Gareth Bryne tries to teach him this lesson when they meet again at Egwene's camp, but Gawyn never really was able to overcome the "my life before hers" mentality that was instilled in him at birth.  I don't believe his desire for Egwene was ever real (nor hers for him, to be honest).  Gawyn is incapable of love, because he doesn't know how to appreciate/love himself.  His only sense of worth was in how well he can keep someone else from dying.

 

Gawyn is a truly tragic character.  But at the same time he's perhaps the greatest example in the WoT books of the point that Jordan hammered home again and again: real life seldom reflects the story books.  Handsome prince meets pretty village girl and they live happily ever after.  In the story books, every one of Gawyn's decisions would be the right one, and his brother's "black and white" view of the world would prove his downfall.

 

Conclusion: Gawyn suffers from mommy issues.

 

WEll if you had written the opposite of what you wrote then I'd agree.