DM Will Likely Crash During My Game Mafia - Game thread! [STANDARD]

Andrej · June 21, 2018

2 hours ago, Darthe said:

At the very least I'd have to nk AJ

-.-

?

DPR · June 21, 2018

The problem with the DarthePlan is that there is no actual benefit to it, and in fact, it hurst the town by lessening the pool of players that they pay close attention to and potentially helps the wolves by manipulating the schedule that they are under the microscope.

Darthe's argument (if I am stating it correctly) is that by focusing on a smaller number of players we can "dig deeper" into their posts for reads. But this concept is faulty as it overlooks player schedules - what if Player #3 is not able to post as much during D1 and we have nothing to really look at - then the attention is off Player #3's slot is on D2... This could be a great benefit to the wolf team if Player 3 is among them.

The statistical argument is also bogus. Claiming that there should be a wolf among the first 4 players is providing no actual information. Of course there *could* be - but we already know that thee is a 100% certainty that all wolves are included in the 9 players group and there is no benefit to town in ignoring over half of them.

I pointed out earlier that Rather is on record for having worked on this post for 23 hours - plenty of time to reason through it if her were looking at it from a town perspective. He is also well aware that it's a lightning-rod post designed to get attention and drive discussion.

I'm trying to see it from a town pov or an honest mistake pov - Darthe, what do you think about the points above?

Darthe · June 21, 2018

5 minutes ago, Andrej said:

Darthe is in the first four slots.

Indeed I am, town AJ

DPR · June 21, 2018

3 hours ago, TrippedOnReality said:

That's fair, particularly the bolded. If you had to pick someone else who you thought *might* agree, who would you pick?

"Agree" might be a strong use of terms, but I do think that certain players have a good eye for spotting inconsistencies - Sooh is my top pick here, followed by BFG and AJ.

Darthe · June 21, 2018

2 minutes ago, DPR said:

The problem with the DarthePlan is that there is no actual benefit to it, and in fact, it hurst the town by lessening the pool of players that they pay close attention to and potentially helps the wolves by manipulating the schedule that they are under the microscope.

Darthe's argument (if I am stating it correctly) is that by focusing on a smaller number of players we can "dig deeper" into their posts for reads. But this concept is faulty as it overlooks player schedules - what if Player #3 is not able to post as much during D1 and we have nothing to really look at - then the attention is off Player #3's slot is on D2... This could be a great benefit to the wolf team if Player 3 is among them.

The statistical argument is also bogus. Claiming that there should be a wolf among the first 4 players is providing no actual information. Of course there *could* be - but we already know that thee is a 100% certainty that all wolves are included in the 9 players group and there is no benefit to town in ignoring over half of them.

I pointed out earlier that Rather is on record for having worked on this post for 23 hours - plenty of time to reason through it if her were looking at it from a town perspective. He is also well aware that it's a lightning-rod post designed to get attention and drive discussion.

I'm trying to see it from a town pov or an honest mistake pov - Darthe, what do you think about the points above?

Well I want to start responding by saying that I disagree that it had no benefit. I think there's a great benefit, which albeit may have some flaws. I also think that you're not taking into account that the day 2 would focus on the other players, which means that all would receive attention.

What if the town determined that all 4 we're townies? Then we move forward. I can't regiment how people play but this is a possible way to introduce a sense of order to the early game chaos and I think that if it assists in generating a town core then it has merit. We are, after all, not just looking for town reads.

And yes, I had 23 hours to think on it. I also had the year+ prior to think on it. I've said this before in a thread, long ago.

You are correct that it's a bit of a lightning rod, my OP. That's okay though, it's really drawing a lot of early discussion and happens to additionally be serving the same purpose as limiting our PoE artificially would.

DPR · June 21, 2018

4 minutes ago, Darthe said:

Indeed I am, town AJ

Bro...

You've called for the focus to be on the top 4 listed players - of which you are literally #1.

The you claimed yourself, me, AJ & Zander as town reads and claimed BFG as wolf.

But if you wanted to focus on the top 4, why clear 3 out of the bottom 5?

I feel like this is unraveling a bit...

1. Darthe

2. Sooh

3. BFG

4. Aquilla

5. Andrej

6. Krakalakachkn

7. TrippedOnReality

8. DreadPirateRoberts

9. Zanatron

DPR · June 21, 2018

4 minutes ago, Darthe said:

1. Well I want to start responding by saying that I disagree that it had no benefit. I think there's a great benefit, which albeit may have some flaws. I also think that you're not taking into account that the day 2 would focus on the other players, which means that 2. all would receive attention.

What if the town determined that all 4 we're townies? Then we move forward. I can't regiment how people play but this is a possible way to introduce a sense of order to the 3. early game chaos and I think that if it assists in generating a town core then it has merit. We are, after all, not just looking for town reads.

4. And yes, I had 23 hours to think on it. I also had the year+ prior to think on it. I've said this before in a thread, long ago.

You are correct that it's a bit of a lightning rod, my OP. That's okay though, it's really drawing a lot of early discussion and happens to additionally be serving the same purpose as limiting our PoE artificially would.

1. You don't point out how you think it brings benefit to the town? What exactly is that benefit?

2. I feel like the point about how the timing of focusing on certain players could greatly benefit scum. Why are you not acknowledging this?

3. There is no "early game chaos" in this game other than that which you have yourself introduced.

In my experience, smaller games with seasoned players rarely descend into chaos on D1?

4. My point is that if you had spent that time looking at it from a town pov, you would have spotted the flaws in your suggestion. However, from a wolf pov, a person tends to try and "polish" the points they are making to fit the plan they want to achieve - and that's what this is feeling more and more like to me.

5. Lightning rod is a lightning rod. Your post is one. Discussion would have happened anyway, so no actual benefit there.

Darthe · June 21, 2018

50 minutes ago, DPR said:

Bro...

You've called for the focus to be on the top 4 listed players - of which you are literally #1.

The you claimed yourself, me, AJ & Zander as town reads and claimed BFG as wolf.

But if you wanted to focus on the top 4, why clear 3 out of the bottom 5?

I feel like this is unraveling a bit...

1. Darthe

2. Sooh

3. BFG

4. Aquilla

5. Andrej

6. Krakalakachkn

7. TrippedOnReality

8. DreadPirateRoberts

9. Zanatron

That's a bit of a stretch don't you think? My proposal of a course of action doesn't dictate that I will immediately follow it as no one else has signed up.

Darthe · June 21, 2018

38 minutes ago, DPR said:

1. You don't point out how you think it brings benefit to the town? What exactly is that benefit?

2. I feel like the point about how the timing of focusing on certain players could greatly benefit scum. Why are you not acknowledging this?

3. There is no "early game chaos" in this game other than that which you have yourself introduced.

In my experience, smaller games with seasoned players rarely descend into chaos on D1?

4. My point is that if you had spent that time looking at it from a town pov, you would have spotted the flaws in your suggestion. However, from a wolf pov, a person tends to try and "polish" the points they are making to fit the plan they want to achieve - and that's what this is feeling more and more like to me.

5. Lightning rod is a lightning rod. Your post is one. Discussion would have happened anyway, so no actual benefit there.

1. Depth, consiseness, and ease of access to the game. Increased pressure to perform for all involved.

2. How would it be beneficial to a team who could consider of any subdivision to not be focused on d1 and then be exclusively focused on D2?

3. There's no early game anything until someone does something. Mafia doesn't typically have a good starting point.

4. It's a predestined, formuleic approach to a game open much the way chess matches go. Of course it has flaws and strengths, I think I'd be hard pressed to say you sincerely don't recognize that. Isn't your counterargument an attempt to "unpolish" in much the same regard?

5. Not really true. People meander until something happens, then they gravitate. That's why RVS exists.

Andrej · June 21, 2018

Given this roster I don’t believe anyone outright agrees with Darthe’s plan, and he probably knows that or at least should expect it.

So it’s not so much whether or not the plan is good, but whether Darthe presents it as a way to look like he’s thinking outside the box or just really thinks this could maybe do some good.

Its a stark change from his play last game which was pretty reserved, but Darthe is pretty self aware imo.

I think the whole thing is pretty null and not something I’m particularly interested in chasing.

Vote Aquilla

Lets go here. Their TR on Darthe was over explained imo.

Lizabeth · June 21, 2018

Vote Count!

Aquilla - 1 - Andrej

Votes marked :00 will count, :01 will not. Day One ends at 8:00 PM Eastern time on Friday, 6/22.

DPR · June 21, 2018

1 hour ago, Darthe said:

1. Depth, consiseness, and ease of access to the game. Increased pressure to perform for all involved.

2. How would it be beneficial to a team who could consider of any subdivision to not be focused on d1 and then be exclusively focused on D2?

3. There's no early game anything until someone does something. Mafia doesn't typically have a good starting point.

4. It's a predestined, formuleic approach to a game open much the way chess matches go. Of course it has flaws and strengths, I think I'd be hard pressed to say you sincerely don't recognize that. Isn't your counterargument an attempt to "unpolish" in much the same regard?

5. Not really true. People meander until something happens, then they gravitate. That's why RVS exists.

I don't consider any of these to be valid points. This feels like you shoe-horning your idea when Town!Darthe would have shrugged and admitted it was not as well thought through as it could have been.

We'll see where it goes.

Vote Darthe

Darthe · June 21, 2018

3 hours ago, DPR said:

Bro...

You've called for the focus to be on the top 4 listed players - of which you are literally #1.

The you claimed yourself, me, AJ & Zander as town reads and claimed BFG as wolf.

But if you wanted to focus on the top 4, why clear 3 out of the bottom 5?

I feel like this is unraveling a bit...

1. Darthe

2. Sooh

3. BFG

4. Aquilla

5. Andrej

6. Krakalakachkn

7. TrippedOnReality

8. DreadPirateRoberts

9. Zanatron

1 hour ago, DPR said:

I don't consider any of these to be valid points. This feels like you shoe-horning your idea when Town!Darthe would have shrugged and admitted it was not as well thought through as it could have been.

We'll see where it goes.

Vote Darthe

To clarify, you think I would play to my idea in a bubble but that I would also think it's not a good idea and so I'm attempting to do x -ev thing with it so I'm a wolf?

TrippedOnReality · June 21, 2018

4 hours ago, Andrej said:

Darthe is in the first four slots.

I did take that under consideration. That said, I'm not sure it really means anything because you could easily get into WIFOM world where you start asking would wolf!Darthe intentionally pick the group he's in to avoid being suspected because it's his idea and a wolf would never probably do that. I suppose I could see a situation where town!Darthe doesn't even pay attention to the fact that he's in the top 4, which would really narrow his pool of suspects to 3 people because he knows his own alignment. I'm not sure if this is why DPR asked why Darthe didn't take top 5 or not...but it's a fair point if that's the case. I have a hard time believing wolf!Darthe doesn't notice he's in the top 4 after suggesting that's the group to look at.

TrippedOnReality · June 21, 2018

4 hours ago, DPR said:

"Agree" might be a strong use of terms, but I do think that certain players have a good eye for spotting inconsistencies - Sooh is my top pick here, followed by BFG and AJ.

Do you think it's likely that Darthe and BFG are teamed at this point? Mostly I'm just curious if you think wolf!darthe pushes wolf!bfg right out of the gates like that and then also calls her out for not reacting to him pushing her.

TrippedOnReality · June 21, 2018

5 hours ago, Darthe said:

You've interacted with zander a little bit. Any thoughts on him?

Without knowing Zander, I think it looks ~okay that he's a bit suspicious of your town read on him. I have no idea if wolf!zander is likely to shrug off a town read or not. I can easily see a world where town!zander probably does look at someone a bit squinty for an easy town read if he thought you were serious about it, especially since he hadn't done much up to that point.

Sooh · June 21, 2018

Hi! I had too much cider at staff summer party. Also I have to pee a lot. AMA!

brb reading

Sooh · June 21, 2018

8 hours ago, Zanatron said:

Your easy Town read on me is legit sketching me out....

Why?

Why is it so unlikely that he calls you town? I mean, you have the ability to look the same as town and scum, at least and maybe especially early on, but why is it so weird that he's throwing out a read? I tend to treat most early D1 reads that are made with little content as sort of #soulreads, and that they mean little in the grand context except when later validated. I mean, I can literally call everyone a town read this game and be more right than wrong, so I don't see the sketching out bit.

Are you afraid to be pocketed?

#drunkreads

Sooh · June 21, 2018

8 hours ago, TrippedOnReality said:

Would you have expected wolf!Darthe to pick someone else to go after this early in the game given the roster? Or is wolf!darthe generally not this aggressive this early?

Honestly, the last few times I've played with town!Darthe and wolf!Darthe he has been generally low effort, so this aggressiveness is kind of new and weird. I wasn't in the last game where he powerwolfed though, but as I understand he was making quite an effort there as well.

Sooh · June 21, 2018

5 hours ago, DPR said:

"Agree" might be a strong use of terms, but I do think that certain players have a good eye for spotting inconsistencies - Sooh is my top pick here, followed by BFG and AJ.

I'm lost on this one, but my name was mentioned. What are we talking about that I *might* agree on or whatever the wording was?

Sooh · June 21, 2018

5 hours ago, DPR said:

Bro...

You've called for the focus to be on the top 4 listed players - of which you are literally #1.

The you claimed yourself, me, AJ & Zander as town reads and claimed BFG as wolf.

But if you wanted to focus on the top 4, why clear 3 out of the bottom 5?

I feel like this is unraveling a bit...

1. Darthe

2. Sooh

3. BFG

4. Aquilla

5. Andrej

6. Krakalakachkn

7. TrippedOnReality

8. DreadPirateRoberts

9. Zanatron

Does this mean I get to be top 4?

Do I win if I'm top 4?

I have so many questions. Also I think I prefer to sort through games the way I'm used to tbh.

Darthe · June 21, 2018

I could honestly care less which slots we do. That's irellevant to the concept I've been discussing.

Would y'all be more open to the idea if we did slots 5-9?

Sooh · June 21, 2018

1 hour ago, TrippedOnReality said:

Do you think it's likely that Darthe and BFG are teamed at this point? Mostly I'm just curious if you think wolf!darthe pushes wolf!bfg right out of the gates like that and then also calls her out for not reacting to him pushing her.

In a pure odds based argument I would say that that would be a foolish gamble. For a wolf to hard bus another on D1 like this in a game with (probably, I don't remember if the rules said but I'm guesstimating) 2 wolves, without even trying to get a mislynch I would say that's not good play and I don't think anyone in this game would do anything of the sort. Sure, a scum might not town read his or her partner, but outright bussing on D1 in a game of this size would surprise me.

Sooh · June 21, 2018

Damn. Darthe broke my post streak.

Hi darlin <3 How's your evening?

Sooh · June 21, 2018

2 minutes ago, Darthe said:

I could honestly care less which slots we do. That's irellevant to the concept I've been discussing.

Would y'all be more open to the idea if we did slots 5-9?

Are you literally talking about the numbers in the sign up roster?

DM Will Likely Crash During My Game Mafia - Game thread! [STANDARD]

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