Egwene and Elaida: The Amyrlin Seat

[stoneface]

[spoiler WARNING - KoD info, aMoL Speculation]

I just finished a re-read through KoD.

 

How will Egwene reunite the tower? The following is pure speculation, but what do you think?

 

Elaida has commanded that Egwene serve her at dinner. So, Elaida will certainly be ticked off at Egwene's refusal to concede. My guess is that Elaida will reverse her previous position on Egwene (treat as novice, break her, and mold her to the Tower). Elaida will order Egwene put on trial. But wait, Egwene already knows that the form of summoning for trial/punishment by the Hall is the same as summoning for consideration as the Amyrlin Seat (reference Egwene in Salidar). The Hall will ask a question, and Egwene will offer to serve as the Amyrlin Seat. Since Elaida has just recently managed to tick off the Hall even more (Sitters whose Ajahs do not send enough sisters to help at the harbor towers will be - strapped or birched, I forget), the Hall will be surprisingly receptive.

 

Surrounding circumstances could be almost anything. The current hostility in hte Tower, the BA, Seanchan, the BA hunters (Pevara was otherwise occupied, of course), the Ajah heads, the ferrets, the Little Tower with all those novices and other successes, the Kin, and any number of other things may be stirred into the mix, but my guess is that the Hall in Tar Valon will accept Egwene (is she ta'veren?). The fly in the ointment will be figuring out how to reconcile duplicate Sitters and heads of four Ajahs; if we have learned anything about the cool, calm, and unflappable AS is that most are very accomplished at pushing their personal agendas.

 

Any other guesses about how it will come out? Or maybe a reference to a thread where this was kicked around a few months back?

[Luckers]

It is my belief that it will happen during the Seanchan attack. Either Elaida will be leashed, or will falter out of shock or disbelief when Tarna brings her word of it (I actually think that the latter will take place, and then the former, but that may just be because i want Elaida leashed). There is some evidence that Elaida is at breaking point. Her increasing alcoholism, her blind disreguard for the truth--i simply do not think she will be able to deal with the reality of the Seanchan attack.

 

In any case i think Egwene will step into the gap and simply start issuing commands. Whilst many Aes Sedai will be leashed (a majority of those in the tower to my mind) Egwene will manage to gather around her somewhere between fifty and a hundred (including Silviana, Pevara and Alviarin). She will realise the Seanchan are too strong, and lead those Aes Sedai she has gathered, as well as the novices and Accepted out to the Rebels, to lead a counter-attack.

 

By the time Rand reaches his agreement with Tuon, and ceasation of hostilities results in the release of the leashed Aes Sedai Egwene will firmly be in command of both armies, as well as all the sisters she led out of the Tower. Elaida will be a broken mess, and that will be that.

[Beckon]

I agree with Luckers. Elaida has a narrow view of the world and always has. She simply doesn't believe anything she does not wish to believe. She twists facts in her own mind to make them fit her narrow vision.

 

She's severe and cruel and has had a tenuous grip on authority from the very beginning of her reign as Amyrlin. I haven't given much thought to the actual circumstances but I concur with Luckers idea that Elaida will break mentally at some point, make some catastrophic error that will see her either dead or leashed and Egwene will just step in and BE the Amyrlin.

[richglennon]

She is the most evil person in the whole series. I agree with all the former opinions, but I feel that Elaida is being set up for death and to be take by the Dark One forever to be resealed in his prison.

 

I know she is not a darkfriend. The problem is she is so concerned with her beliefs and control that she has become more evil than the worst forsaken. She will go to any length to get what she wants. She will break any law to get what she wants. She will kill, maim, or steal to get what she wants. In the end she is one of the most evil characters in the series.

 

Dont worry, she is doomed!

[Elwinn Taron]

I always thought the perfect punishment for Elaida would be to have her given the lifelong assignment of teaching the Windfinders.

[Guest Barmacral]

Elwinn wins the day. Best idea yet.

[Razor]

or a wise one's apprentice.

 

I would like to see her digging up holes with a spoon just to fill them in again, LOL.

[StudentJoe]

I was thinking on this earlier. The sisters searching for the BA now fear that Elaida is black. Inwhich case they my test Egwene. It could be possable for them to remove Elaida then in fear that she may be black....and raise Eqwene as the new Amyrlin.

 

far fetched and you would still have two competting halls to deal with but it could be possable.

[kait]

That's interesting, StudentJoe. I think it could be possible. The Seanchan attack, IMO, seems a little iffy. For one thing, the timeline is already really full, and with Tuon back I don't think attacking the WT is a priority for them. I could be wrong; I admit I don't pay the closest attention to the Seanchan plot lines.

 

Also, remember the predictions going around? I know you can't put all your weight on them, but RJ doesn't seem inclined to have any of them be false, just horribly cryptic or misunderstood. I know Elaida's foretelling said the Dragon Reborn would know the Amyrlin's wrath, and we all know that was irony and probably refers to Egwene as the Amyrlin. So why would she be that angry at Rand? And also, Egwene Dreamed of having to climb a cliff and being helped by a Seanchan woman who told her they could reach the top together. Unless she convinces the Seanchan to attack in order to unite the WT, I don't see how a Seanchan attack fits in there. And she also Dreamed of the ravens making the WT wobble. But they never attacked the WT, if I remember correctly. Given the heavy symbolism RJ uses with Dreaming and the like, couldn't that have just been because of the threat of a Seanchan attack?

 

Just my thoughts =)

[Luckers]

That's interesting, StudentJoe. I think it could be possible. The Seanchan attack, IMO, seems a little iffy. For one thing, the timeline is already really full, and with Tuon back I don't think attacking the WT is a priority for them. I could be wrong; I admit I don't pay the closest attention to the Seanchan plot lines.

 

Well, the Seanchan attack will happen. Aside from the various prophecies indicating such, we know from KoD that the to'raken have already been gathered. So the attack is going to happen soon--i doubt Tuon would be able to stop it, even if she wanted to--which i doubt she would, based on her scenes in KoD and CoT.

 

But the timeline... i would have suggested that the timeline is evidence in favour of the Seanchan attack, as opposed to against it. The fact is that with only one book left, events are going to have to move at a fast pace. Without some sort of catalyst, the Aes Sedai will likely remain split for some time yet. No matter how disatisfied.

 

I know Elaida's foretelling said the Dragon Reborn would know the Amyrlin's wrath, and we all know that was irony and probably refers to Egwene as the Amyrlin. So why would she be that angry at Rand?

 

Most likely for his alliance with the Seanchan. I dont see how that is a point against the Seanchan attack, however. Rand and Tuon rock up, expecting Egwene and the Aes sedai to be friends with the people that just attacked the tower, leashed the aes sedai, and shook the very foundation of Aes Sedai belief... the supposed untouchability and power of the White Tower. It may even be that part of the agreement was that the Seanchan did not have to unleash anyone already leashed--indeed, i dont see to Tuon agreeing to unleash anyone. Which would certainly be a cause for anger given that the seanchan would have just leashed around a hundred and fifty sisters.

 

 

 

And also, Egwene Dreamed of having to climb a cliff and being helped by a Seanchan woman who told her they could reach the top together. Unless she convinces the Seanchan to attack in order to unite the WT, I don't see how a Seanchan attack fits in there.

 

Actually this does deal with the attack. More to the point the aftermath. Basically the way i see it working is the Seanchan forces will take the Tower... they will land on the roof at night and before anyone knows better they will have taken most of the Tower. Egwene and the novices and accepted, being in the lowest levels, will have enough warning to react. She will take command of the novices, and those Aes Sedai that she can find (maybe fifty sisters) and lead them to the Rebels, where she will gather her forces and lead a counter-attack.

 

By this time the Seanchan will be well entrenched in the Tower. The battle will deadlock, with the Aes Sedai and their superior knowledge of the power holding the city, and the Seanchan with their superior number of channelers holding the tower.

 

This stalemate will last a couple of days when Lan arrives, bringing news of the Trolloc force that invaded through Tarwin Gap. The Trolloc force will lay seige to Tar Valon, the brunt of which will be borne by the Aes Sedai. The Seanchan in the tower, however, will not make a move to aid the Aes Sedai, and the Aes Sedai will be very close to losing entirely.

 

This is when Tuon arrives following the agreement with Rand. Seeing the Aes Sedai almost overwhelmed, she leads the Seanchan army against the Trollocs, breaking the seige. Together.

 

Thats how the dream is fulfilled. The woman with the changing face and the stable sword represents the Seanchan army, as led by Tuon. The 'make it together' refers to surviving the immediate threat of the Trolloc forces.

 

A little bit of a rough explanation. I explained it in much more detail elsewhere. (Egwenes seanchan woman dream thread)

 

And she also Dreamed of the ravens making the WT wobble. But they never attacked the WT, if I remember correctly.

 

No, they do attack. The two ravens strike at the Flame, shaking it on its plinith. The Seanchan will attack the Tower.

[Guest Anonymous!]

StudentJoe: To support your theory, the sisters guarding Egwene are Red Ajah. With Pevara being a sitter for the Red, she can certainly order a private meeting with Egwene to test her for being Red, so it is a strong possibility. The only issue is that she will end up taking the three oathes and that kind of violates Egwene's Acceptance Test vision.

 

 

Stoneface, kait:

 

A while back I tried to piece together a working scenario for the remaining prophecies coupled around the Egwene being serving girl to Elaida. I have copied the link below because it was long.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=251834&highlight=#251834

 

The gist focuses around Egwene's serving Elaida. Something happens there, and Egwene gets into real hot water. She is either sentenced to be stilled or killed. Gawyn finally satisfies the Egwene's prophetic dreams, and saves her. This could happen in a number of ways, with the help of Aes Sedai, or without. Then Egwene ends up outside the White Tower, and with the harbors not fully sealed, and Elaida having Gateways/Disguise/Inverting Weaves/etc., it is now impossible to take the White Tower. That's when the Seanchan show up, either with or without Tuon and/or Mat. The rest is completely up in the air. Essentially, I was trying to match the timing of the "Seanchan Woman/Cliff" dream. The Seanchan Woman don't show up until after the pathway falls away from Egwene, and makes it impossible for Egwene to take the Tower. To me that indicates the Seanchan won't show up until Egwene has no chance of taking the White Tower, which hasn't happened yet.

[Luckers]

To me that indicates the Seanchan won't show up until Egwene has no chance of taking the White Tower, which hasn't happened yet.

 

Do you really think there will be a stage at which Egwene has no chance of taking the Tower? I mean, as things stand now she currently has more support then Elaida.

[frozen Turkey]

I personally believe that Egwene taking control of the Tower is going to be done on the inside, without help from the rebel Aes Sedai. Without Egwene to motivate them, the rebels are most probably just going to sit on their hands and argue about alot of BS (something Aes Sedai seem to be really good at.)

 

Egwene will need to gather enough backing to pull the same stunt Elaida used to dispose Siuan. This may come because of the hall's annoyance with Elaida, or simply because, in time, the tower Aes Sedai may come to realize that Egwene is in fact a beeter choice. Or, Egwene could (which i highly doubt) focus the novices and aceepted into a rebellion, as they can use the one power as a weapon while Aes Sedai cannot. Or, since novice quarters are lower they could blockade the top of the tower and starve the Aes Sedai into submission. (Like i said i find this highly unlikely, as Egwene wants a united tower, however, desperate times call for desperate measures.)

 

My best bet is that the seachan will attack and Elaida will not be able to handle it. Egwene, with her high status with novices and accepted will be the core of the defense, eventually ensnaring and ordering bewildered Aes Sedai who will not be able to keep their cool when their precious tower is attacked. After this Egwene would have enough Aes Sedai support that Elaida would be history.

[Elwinn Taron]

Kait, I think Eqwene's "wrath" toward Rand deals with the fact that she believes Rand used compulsion to force the sisters in Cairhien to swear fealty to him.

[Luckers]

Egwene will need to gather enough backing to pull the same stunt Elaida used to dispose Siuan. This may come because of the hall's annoyance with Elaida, or simply because, in time, the tower Aes Sedai may come to realize that Egwene is in fact a beeter choice.

 

I just dont see this happening any time soon. Yes, the Aes Sedai in the tower are coming to respect her and dislike Elaida, but without some form of catalyst, they wont act to disrupt the status quo.

 

My best bet is that the seachan will attack and Elaida will not be able to handle it. Egwene, with her high status with novices and accepted will be the core of the defense, eventually ensnaring and ordering bewildered Aes Sedai who will not be able to keep their cool when their precious tower is attacked. After this Egwene would have enough Aes Sedai support that Elaida would be history.

 

I agree with this.