Double Bonding

[LapisPharaoh]

 

Wow, I really didn't think this would turn into a bashing Alanna thread...

Actually, I like Alanna...I'd would be a Green myself if I were Aes Sedai. I've always thought, some of the Ajah felt that the real world as chess pieces. Green live their lives (they marry, and some even have children). But living your live includes making mistakes. .

Haha yes, I get it. I wasn't taking about you. I would probably be a White, of I could channel and I was a woman lol...

[Kesiera_Sedai]

You could still have been white...Lanfear was.. I think most of the others were Green...Mesaana and Moghedien were Brown... Demandred, Lews Therin, and Sammael were Green... Semirhage and Graendal were Yellow...I don't know about Be'lal or Balthamel. I don't think Asmodean was Aes Sedai, even though he was a powerful channeler, and his mom was Aes Sedai... Everyone was tested @ 10 yrs old during the AoL, so I don't think there were wilders. Imagine it.. Channeling was probably taught in school, probably like classes for "gifted" students or something...

 

As a side note, IRL most people that know me would probably think I would choose White though...

[LapisPharaoh]

You could still have been white...Lanfear was.. I think most of the others were Green...Mesaana and Moghedien were Brown... Demandred, Lews Therin, and Sammael were Green... Semirhage and Graendal were Yellow...I don't know about Be'lal or Balthamel. I don't think Asmodean was Aes Sedai, even though he was a powerful channeler, and his mom was Aes Sedai... Everyone was tested @ 10 yrs old during the AoL, so I don't think there were wilders. Imagine it.. Channeling was probably taught in school, probably like classes for "gifted" students or something...

 

As a side note, IRL most people that know me would probably think I would choose White though...

Am I missing something, because I thought the AoL Aes Sedai didn't have Ajha's...

[Kesiera_Sedai]

They did...at one point one of the male Forsaken (I don't remember which one) made a comment about the Ajahs (it was in lowercase caps, so I'm guessing it means something in the Old Tongue), saying in so many words that they were pretty much the same as in the AoL. He meant it as a compliment, but the was speaking of the political machinations and manipulateness of the current Aes Sedai.

[LapisPharaoh]

Yeah I remeber that being ajah i.e. a temporary group of aes sedai coming together for a specific purpose. I don't it was official, like not every AS was classified into an Ajah...

[Sabio]

I don't think ajahs offically formed into specific groups until the creation of the White Tower. 

 

The BWB says a dictionary found shows that Ajah in the old tongue means "an informal and temporary group of people gathered together for a common purpose or goal, by a common set of beliefs.  All constantly combining, shrinking, growing, dividing, melting away only to reborn in new guise and begin the process once more".   So in the AOL it was a temporary thing where sounds like they would join up for a task.  The BWB also says a manuscript. reliably dated from the same period, is described there being a "vast sea of Ajah".  So sounds almost like they were clubs in the AOL.

 

Then the BWB states in the first centuries after the breaking the nature of Ajah changed, it states a dictionary from around 200 - 219 AB describes an ajah as a "sisterhood of Aes Sedai". 

[Kesiera_Sedai]

Yeah. That sounds like the same as in the 3rd Age, except with Aes Sedai who basically changed Ajahs whenever it suited their purpose, imagine if Nynaeve chose to be Green when it came to decision that affected her personally, but Green @ other times, or Egwene choosing to Blue when dealing with the Hall, but Green the test of the time...Sounds even worse and more complicated than the 3rd Age system, never knowing who was siding eith who on what day of the week...I think Leane was the only person to have done it since the founding of the White Tower.

[BFG]

Yeah. That sounds like the same as in the 3rd Age, except with Aes Sedai who basically changed Ajahs whenever it suited their purpose, imagine if Nynaeve chose to be Green when it came to decision that affected her personally, but Green @ other times, or Egwene choosing to Blue when dealing with the Hall, but Green the test of the time...Sounds even worse and more complicated than the 3rd Age system, never knowing who was siding eith who on what day of the week...I think Leane was the only person to have done it since the founding of the White Tower.

It doesn't sound like the ajahs were defined groups the way they are now, more committees to deal with an issue and once that issues dealt with the group dissolve and join other groups or go it alone for a while

 

I don't actually know anything about this though

[Sabio]

 

It doesn't sound like the ajahs were defined groups the way they are now, more committees to deal with an issue and once that issues dealt with the group dissolve and join other groups or go it alone for a while

 

I don't actually know anything about this though

 

 

That's how it sounds to me, if some wanted to study tree growth, sounds like they would form an ajah, if they wished to discuss philosophy or a new theory, an ajah would form.  Ajah's probably formed from super important things down to mundane things.

[Kesiera_Sedai]

 

Yeah. That sounds like the same as in the 3rd Age, except with Aes Sedai who basically changed Ajahs whenever it suited their purpose, imagine if Nynaeve chose to be Green when it came to decision that affected her personally, but Green @ other times, or Egwene choosing to Blue when dealing with the Hall, but Green the test of the time...Sounds even worse and more complicated than the 3rd Age system, never knowing who was siding eith who on what day of the week...I think Leane was the only person to have done it since the founding of the White Tower.

It doesn't sound like the ajahs were defined groups the way they are now, more committees to deal with an issue and once that issues dealt with the group dissolve and join other groups or go it alone for a while

 

I don't actually know anything about this though

 

You're right, the groups were temporary. You're weren't permanently aligned with a particular group...Once a solution was reached on whatever this issue was, they went their separate ways and when they next came together, it might be for a different purpose, and some of the original members may be a part of an Ajah that opposes the original one...Sounds very flighty to me.

[jack of shadows]

sabio is right,during age of legends,ajah were an ad hoc group designed

for specific problem or task,nothing more,when a certain group(ajah)

reached a solution or completed its task,its members went their separate ways.

[Kesiera_Sedai]

sabio is right,during age of legends,ajah were an ad hoc group designed

for specific problem or task,nothing more,when a certain group(ajah)

reached a solution or completed its task,its members went their separate ways.

 

Yeah, but don't u think it would be odd to work in tandem with someone today and have them bitterly oppose u tomorrow...(think LTT and Latra Posae, if u know who she is, apparently she was the Egwene of the AoL

[LapisPharaoh]

I don't think Ajah's were a really big deal in AoL. If an issue arose it something new was discovered, Ajah's were formed depending on the different routes to take towards or against it. Like during the sealing of the bore in AoL, there were probably two Ajah's, LTT's Companions and Latra's Female Channelers. They both had different ideas on how to approach the DO.

[Sabio]

 

sabio is right,during age of legends,ajah were an ad hoc group designed

for specific problem or task,nothing more,when a certain group(ajah)

reached a solution or completed its task,its members went their separate ways.

 

Yeah, but don't u think it would be odd to work in tandem with someone today and have them bitterly oppose u tomorrow...(think LTT and Latra Posae, if u know who she is, apparently she was the Egwene of the AoL

 

 

My guess us that was pretty common,  since It's not uncommon to agree with someone on one issue and not on another.  Also have to remember when the fight was being lost people would become more and more desperate probably tossing out wild ideas. 

[Kesiera_Sedai]

 

 

sabio is right,during age of legends,ajah were an ad hoc group designed

for specific problem or task,nothing more,when a certain group(ajah)

reached a solution or completed its task,its members went their separate ways.

Yeah, but don't u think it would be odd to work in tandem with someone today and have them bitterly oppose u tomorrow...(think LTT and Latra Posae, if u know who she is, apparently she was the Egwene of the AoL

My guess us that was pretty common, since It's not uncommon to agree with someone on one issue and not on another. Also have to remember when the fight was being lost people would become more and more desperate probably tossing out wild ideas.

This is off topic (sorry), but do u think if she (Latra) had gone along with LTT's plan that both saidin and saidar would've been tainted? I ask because Rand used a totally different method than what LTT was planning.

[LapisPharaoh]

I do think both sources would be Tainted because the True Power was also needed for the sealing

[Sabio]

 

 

 

sabio is right,during age of legends,ajah were an ad hoc group designed

for specific problem or task,nothing more,when a certain group(ajah)

reached a solution or completed its task,its members went their separate ways.

Yeah, but don't u think it would be odd to work in tandem with someone today and have them bitterly oppose u tomorrow...(think LTT and Latra Posae, if u know who she is, apparently she was the Egwene of the AoL

My guess us that was pretty common, since It's not uncommon to agree with someone on one issue and not on another. Also have to remember when the fight was being lost people would become more and more desperate probably tossing out wild ideas.

This is off topic (sorry), but do u think if she (Latra) had gone along with LTT's plan that both saidin and saidar would've been tainted? I ask because Rand used a totally different method than what LTT was planning.

 

 

I do, the seal would of probably of lasted longer, but my guess is both sides would of been tainted thus screwing the world.

 

I feel Latra did the right thing but for the wrong reason.  The BWB pretty much had her placing all her hopes of being able to use the huge ter'angreal, which was going to be impossible because all her agents she sent to recover the ter'angreal had been caught and killed.  Also it described the female opposition as "perhaps in the manner of animals that, seeing a boulder rushing downhill, freeze in the path of destruction - held to their pledge. " So regardless of reason, Latra and the rest were never going to help no matter what.  So it turned out her not wanting to help was the right thing, but she was against it for the wrong reason since had LTT listened to her, they would of lost. 

[BFG]

 

 

 

 

sabio is right,during age of legends,ajah were an ad hoc group designed

for specific problem or task,nothing more,when a certain group(ajah)

reached a solution or completed its task,its members went their separate ways.

Yeah, but don't u think it would be odd to work in tandem with someone today and have them bitterly oppose u tomorrow...(think LTT and Latra Posae, if u know who she is, apparently she was the Egwene of the AoL

 

My guess us that was pretty common, since It's not uncommon to agree with someone on one issue and not on another. Also have to remember when the fight was being lost people would become more and more desperate probably tossing out wild ideas.

 

This is off topic (sorry), but do u think if she (Latra) had gone along with LTT's plan that both saidin and saidar would've been tainted? I ask because Rand used a totally different method than what LTT was planning.

 

 

I do, seal would of probably of lasted longer, but my guess is both sides would of been tainted thus screwing the world.

 

I feel Latra did the right thing but for the wrong reason.  The BWB pretty much had her placing all her hopes of being able to use the huge ter'angreal, which was going to be impossible because all her agents she sent to recover the ter'angreal had been caught and killed.  Also described the female opposition as "perhaps in the manner of animals that, seeing a boulder rushing downhill, freeze in the path of destruction - held to their pledge. " So regardless of reason, Latra and the rest were never going to help no matter what.  So it turned out her not wanting to help was the right thing, but she was against it for the wrong reason since had LTT listened to her, they would of lost.

 

Pretty much this :)

[Orderofolde]

 

You could still have been white...Lanfear was.. I think most of the others were Green...Mesaana and Moghedien were Brown... Demandred, Lews Therin, and Sammael were Green... Semirhage and Graendal were Yellow...I don't know about Be'lal or Balthamel. I don't think Asmodean was Aes Sedai, even though he was a powerful channeler, and his mom was Aes Sedai... Everyone was tested @ 10 yrs old during the AoL, so I don't think there were wilders. Imagine it.. Channeling was probably taught in school, probably like classes for "gifted" students or something...

 

As a side note, IRL most people that know me would probably think I would choose White though...

Am I missing something, because I thought the AoL Aes Sedai didn't have Ajha's...

 

They did, but they were described more as factions rather than reds, blues, and greens.  The wouldn't have had the same needs pre-bore.  No war, no hunting down men that could channel, but I am sure that they had people devoted to certain pursuits like healing, healing the mind, music, gene manipulation, so forth.

[Orderofolde]

 

 

 

sabio is right,during age of legends,ajah were an ad hoc group designed

for specific problem or task,nothing more,when a certain group(ajah)

reached a solution or completed its task,its members went their separate ways.

Yeah, but don't u think it would be odd to work in tandem with someone today and have them bitterly oppose u tomorrow...(think LTT and Latra Posae, if u know who she is, apparently she was the Egwene of the AoL

My guess us that was pretty common, since It's not uncommon to agree with someone on one issue and not on another. Also have to remember when the fight was being lost people would become more and more desperate probably tossing out wild ideas.

This is off topic (sorry), but do u think if she (Latra) had gone along with LTT's plan that both saidin and saidar would've been tainted? I ask because Rand used a totally different method than what LTT was planning.

 

It would have worked out differently.  Remember...they had created Callandor back then so they had a Sa'angreal for the TP.  When men and women worked together they created the biggest and most lasting impacts.  It was only the DO's backlash that tainted the source to Saidin and Saidar working together with the TP as a buffer, it would have been done as quick as Rand did it without the backlash.  You can look at it this way...the women did NOTHING but squabble among themselves creating nothing but breadcrumbs and prophecy.  it was as if they realized that nothing they would do would work so went off creating the Eyes, Callandor, the Chodan'kal, etc. that would be needed later.  LTT and his hundred companions bought the world time to reset an come together to do it right years later.  Had they worked together and not splintered off into their many groups (Those that did the Eye's later, those that did the Chodan'kal, those that created Callandor, and a few other groups) they could have accomplished much.  Only it wasn't meant to be.  It had happened before that way and it will happen again that way as the wheel turns through the ages because the Creator wrote it that way.  Only small changes are allowed to the pattern of an age.   

[Sabio]

 

 

 

 

sabio is right,during age of legends,ajah were an ad hoc group designed

for specific problem or task,nothing more,when a certain group(ajah)

reached a solution or completed its task,its members went their separate ways.

Yeah, but don't u think it would be odd to work in tandem with someone today and have them bitterly oppose u tomorrow...(think LTT and Latra Posae, if u know who she is, apparently she was the Egwene of the AoL

My guess us that was pretty common, since It's not uncommon to agree with someone on one issue and not on another. Also have to remember when the fight was being lost people would become more and more desperate probably tossing out wild ideas.

This is off topic (sorry), but do u think if she (Latra) had gone along with LTT's plan that both saidin and saidar would've been tainted? I ask because Rand used a totally different method than what LTT was planning.

 

It would have worked out differently.  Remember...they had created Callandor back then so they had a Sa'angreal for the TP.  When men and women worked together they created the biggest and most lasting impacts.  It was only the DO's backlash that tainted the source to Saidin and Saidar working together with the TP as a buffer, it would have been done as quick as Rand did it without the backlash.  You can look at it this way...the women did NOTHING but squabble among themselves creating nothing but breadcrumbs and prophecy.  it was as if they realized that nothing they would do would work so went off creating the Eyes, Callandor, the Chodan'kal, etc. that would be needed later.  LTT and his hundred companions bought the world time to reset an come together to do it right years later.  Had they worked together and not splintered off into their many groups (Those that did the Eye's later, those that did the Chodan'kal, those that created Callandor, and a few other groups) they could have accomplished much.  Only it wasn't meant to be.  It had happened before that way and it will happen again that way as the wheel turns through the ages because the Creator wrote it that way.  Only small changes are allowed to the pattern of an age.   

 

 

Problem was as the BWB stated all the Ter'angreal Latra was pinning her hopes on using were behind enemy lines and her agents she sent to get them were captured.  The biggest issue was even LTT had really no idea how to seal it, so the plan was doomed to fail even had the women joined,  since how were they going to get access to the TP?  So LTT's plan was never going to seal it properly even had the women joined in, even if they knew callador could channel the TP.  It's unlikely any of the forces of light would make a ter'angeal that could do that.  The companion says the missing buffer on callador was a manufacturing flaw.  So it's possible the needing to use the TP also could of been an unintentional thing also.  So in the end there would of been a good chance both sides would of been tainted.  Also without creating the ter'engeal such as Callandor, the attempt would of failed.  But Callador like the rest of the Ter'angreal were already behind enemy lines so wouldn't of been available.  The attempt regardless of who helped, was destined to fail.

[LapisPharaoh]

I agree with Sabio. It doesn't matter what happend, LTT was destined to fail.

[Orderofolde]

 

 

 

 

 

sabio is right,during age of legends,ajah were an ad hoc group designed

for specific problem or task,nothing more,when a certain group(ajah)

reached a solution or completed its task,its members went their separate ways.

Yeah, but don't u think it would be odd to work in tandem with someone today and have them bitterly oppose u tomorrow...(think LTT and Latra Posae, if u know who she is, apparently she was the Egwene of the AoL

My guess us that was pretty common, since It's not uncommon to agree with someone on one issue and not on another. Also have to remember when the fight was being lost people would become more and more desperate probably tossing out wild ideas.

This is off topic (sorry), but do u think if she (Latra) had gone along with LTT's plan that both saidin and saidar would've been tainted? I ask because Rand used a totally different method than what LTT was planning.

 

It would have worked out differently.  Remember...they had created Callandor back then so they had a Sa'angreal for the TP.  When men and women worked together they created the biggest and most lasting impacts.  It was only the DO's backlash that tainted the source to Saidin and Saidar working together with the TP as a buffer, it would have been done as quick as Rand did it without the backlash.  You can look at it this way...the women did NOTHING but squabble among themselves creating nothing but breadcrumbs and prophecy.  it was as if they realized that nothing they would do would work so went off creating the Eyes, Callandor, the Chodan'kal, etc. that would be needed later.  LTT and his hundred companions bought the world time to reset an come together to do it right years later.  Had they worked together and not splintered off into their many groups (Those that did the Eye's later, those that did the Chodan'kal, those that created Callandor, and a few other groups) they could have accomplished much.  Only it wasn't meant to be.  It had happened before that way and it will happen again that way as the wheel turns through the ages because the Creator wrote it that way.  Only small changes are allowed to the pattern of an age.   

 

 

Problem was as the BWB stated all the Ter'angreal Latra was pinning her hopes on using were behind enemy lines and her agents she sent to get them were captured.  The biggest issue was even LTT had really no idea how to seal it, so the plan was doomed to fail even had the women joined,  since how were they going to get access to the TP?  So LTT's plan was never going to seal it properly even had the women joined in, even if they knew callador could channel the TP.  It's unlikely any of the forces of light would make a ter'angeal that could do that.  The companion says the missing buffer on callador was a manufacturing flaw.  So it's possible the needing to use the TP also could of been an unintentional thing also.  So in the end there would of been a good chance both sides would of been tainted.  Also without creating the ter'engeal such as Callandor, the attempt would of failed.  But Callador like the rest of the Ter'angreal were already behind enemy lines so wouldn't of been available.  The attempt regardless of who helped, was destined to fail.

 

Good point on who was going to channel the TP.  It makes me wonder, as we now know how the making of angreal and sa'angreal work, in that one must use a ter'angreal seed,and how it takes the power of a person leaving them weakened for months, if the person that created Callandor wasn't a Darkfriend or one of the Forsaken at the time.  Maybe not one of the surviving ones trapped in the bore?  How else does a Sa'angreal for a male channeler also be a sa'angreal for the TP?  Since we see Callandor as well as LTT"s banner in the vision from Rhuidean when the Aiel reports to the Aes Sedai in the meetings, perhaps LTT created it and the Aes Sedai take it after he uses it at the bore?  Maybe the taint from the backlash changed Callandor, or since Rand's soul accesses it, and will eventually access it again, it is linked more to the soul? 

[Sabio]

Sadly very little information on it.  The companion says it was created during the Age of Legends at the end of the technological age.  The lack of buffer was discovered when it was used during the Age of Legends.  So all we know is it was used during the AOL.  Nothing about how it was created, how it ended up in the Stone, or even how it became mentioned in the prophecies .  I wish RJ had put down more about it's history.