Demandred

[Leyrann]

I think I have found out who Demandred is. I know, millions of people think that, but please listen.

There are a few facts we know from comments of RJ and BS.

1. Demandred did not appear on screen in any book, except maybe TGS (for the quotes, see comment 24).

2. Demandred is mentioned in a book between one and 9. For the quote, see comment 30.

3. Demandred's RULE IS SECURE. He has power. He is in control anywhere/somewhere/everywhere.

 

Another great change. I think It'll stay so until AMoL. With using "my rule is secure", you can get important evidence. Because he has (much) power. Enough to satisfy the Dark One. So hes has to control an army/country. The Borderlands, Andor+Cairhien, Illian+Tear, Altara+Tarabon+Amadicia are ruled out because they have respectively Ethinelle+Tenobia+Easar+Paitar, Elayne, Rand and Fortuona as leaders. In Arad Doman and Gheldean IS NO LEADER, and then Murandy is the only country left, because Dem is mentioned, and no rulers of Seanchan, Shara and the LotM (except Fortuona) are mentioned. This means he can only be King Roedran.

 

About those "edited by Leyrann", I'm just editing it for updates. Then you don't have to read all the comments to know who are all ruled out.

[he who comes with a bong]

well we do know from various sources that his alter ego if he even has one has yet to make an apperance so you can rule out bashere right away the same with taim. there are a lot of speculation on who is is and where he is a lot of ppl think that he is king roedran and terez makes a very good case for that but you never know he might be some one we have never heard about

 

all i know its going to be good when the last book finally comes out

[Leyrann]

We know for sure we heard about it, as I already said. But it could also be someone mentioned just once. Someone telling about his brother or so.

[Durinax]

Galgan was in the books before ToM I believe (he is the seanchean general right?) he was there before Suroth got made into property

[DocBean]

At this point who cares?

He's been the most underwhelming Forsaken in the entire series, and they're almost all pathetic.

Moridin is the only one that's been exciting to watch, and Lanfear had/has some potential to be impressive.

 

The rest are too cardboard – bad guys that can't do anything right.

Even Taim and Slayer have been more threatening then the big bad Forsaken, and Fain is above those two.

I'd say Asmodean isn't cardboard, if I didn't hear that Jordan said he was still evil when he died.

I would have liked to see Rand turn one of them back to the light by now, and Asmodean would have been a perfect example of that.

[Rufae]

Former King of Illian, Mattin Stepaneos

[Leyrann]

Mattin Stepaneos. That's an interesting one. He's not directly ruled out, because he only appeared in KoD. But I don't think so, because Mattin was compelled (or at least controlled) by Sammael. They should want an own place. BTW, Demandred says he has an army. It seems King Roedran united Morland (there was no need for the Band of the Red Hand anymore), but Mattin has no power left.

[Lightflame]

At this point who cares?

He's been the most underwhelming Forsaken in the entire series, and they're almost all pathetic.

Moridin is the only one that's been exciting to watch, and Lanfear had/has some potential to be impressive.

 

The rest are too cardboard – bad guys that can't do anything right.

Even Taim and Slayer have been more threatening then the big bad Forsaken, and Fain is above those two.

I'd say Asmodean isn't cardboard, if I didn't hear that Jordan said he was still evil when he died.

I would have liked to see Rand turn one of them back to the light by now, and Asmodean would have been a perfect example of that.

I'm certain I heard Jordan say he decided to geniunely turn back to the light.

[Rufae]

We know Demandred and Mesaana were working together. We also know that she and Mattin were at the White Tower during the time Graendal saw them together. The phrase "my rule is secure" could just mean that he has been guaranteed a throne by the White Tower. As for the army.... look at the Black Tower. Ready made bad guy army.

[Leyrann]

I don't think Taim is Demandreds man. And which throne could he get? Tear, Illian, Andor and Cairhien - No way, they have Rand and Elayne. Arad Doman - Elaida knew Alsalam was still alive. Borderlands - Not likely. Tarabon, Amadicia, Altara - Seanchan controlled. Morland - King Roedran. What's left? Nothing. And as I already said, if Sammael or Demandred should know of the presence of the other, they would kill the other, and Mattin disappeared 2 days before Rand came to Illian, and there were traps. So NO WAY.

 

Edit: Mayene was left. But that doesn't have a real army, and maybe Elaida knew Berelain was alive (and that Mayene was part of the Dragon's Empire).

[Superhal]

My new theory: Old Calle, the crippled beggar in Altara or somewhere.

[Leyrann]

Hmmm. Page does not exist on the Wheel of Time Wikia. When is he mentioned/did he appear? Have you some other information?

[MatBloodyCauthon]

I don't think Taim is Demandreds man. And which throne could he get? Tear, Illian, Andor and Cairhien - No way, they have Rand and Elayne. Arad Doman - Elaida knew Alsalam was still alive. Borderlands - Not likely. Tarabon, Amadicia, Altara - Seanchan controlled. Morland - King Roedran. What's left? Nothing. And as I already said, if Sammael or Demandred should know of the presence of the other, they would kill the other, and Mattin disappeared 2 days before Rand came to Illian, and there were traps. So NO WAY.

 

Edit: Mayene was left. But that doesn't have a real army, and maybe Elaida knew Berelain was alive (and that Mayene was part of the Dragon's Empire).

 

King Roedran, he's the one Talmanes helped right? If so then it fits the guidlines for when Demandred appears according to RJ and BS wasn't mentioned until Knife of Dreams possibly CoT though I'm not sure I'd have to re-read through it but it would be likely gaining the Band thinking Mat was with them then come to find out he wasn't so he had to do what he said he would do but now he has Mat and the Band as allies it wouldn't surprise me if Roedran was Demandred and talked Mat into some cockameme scheme that backfires and ends up with someone close to Rand dead(Mat)

[Hybrid]

I think he means Old Cully, who is mentioned in ACOS.

 

Technically he isn't seen on-screen, but it's highly unlikely. Old Cully was a Darkfriend who reported to Carridin, who reported to Sammael.

[Leyrann]

Not so likely indeed. "He only washes once a year" is stated on Wheel of Time Wikia. So he is known longer than one or two years. And MatBloodyCouthon, you're maybe right, but maybe not. Talmanas said he thought Roedran was at the point of turning against them (not sure if this is really good English, but I'm sure everyone will understand).

[mb]

Voted Other. Do not have an exact guess.

 

A number of the options can be ruled out.

Robert Jordan told that Demandred's alias has not appeared on screen. Sanderson confirmed telling up through Knife of Dreams.

-Lunal Galgan

-Taim

-Jarid Sarand

-Bashere

 

I would doubt anyone mentioned up through Knife of Dreams.

 

I would also doubt Seanchan resident and Shara resident. Robert Jordan told that there would be no more visits to either location.

 

 

If Demandred's alias was revealed it would be in either Gathering Storm or Towers of Midnight.

If not, these places I have counted as his most likely headquarters::

-Black Tower

-Madmen Land

[Durinax]

Rhoedran was never on screen, so it fits the appearance guidelines. plus he keeps being brought up, that must mean somthign.

mentions

1) in andor early on, mentioned as being unambitious

2) Talmanes and his work

3) Egwene calling on the leaders of the world

 

I am sure theres more but those are teh three I remeember

[Leyrann]

The Land of the Madmen can be ruled out. Somewhere between CoT and KoD Robert Jordan said that Demandred did not appear on screen, but that he was mentioned. And the Black Tower, well, everyone first thought he was Mazrim Taim, but then RJ ruled him out. I think it was even before WH, so we didn't know of Dashiva/Osan'gar. And as I said earlier, it is very unlikely two Forsaken would want to share power at one place. By the way, what would he have done before LoC? All Forsaken, except for those reborn (like Osan'gar), already had a base of power. It seems a bit weird if Demandred just looked a bit around.

But I DO think he has at least some power in the Black Tower. I mean, the Forsaken who are left are Cyndane, Moghedien (both mindtrapped), Graendal (we know she has done other things) and Moridin, who never had a base of power. So I think Demandred took over control in the BT when he found out Osan'gar was dead. I think he just ordered Taim to do so. But of course, maybe Taim is a new Forsaken, and is not controlled by someone else.

[Rufae]

Taim's quote "Let the Lord of Chaos rule" exactly matches Demandred's words is a strong indicator of D's influence on Taim, IMHO.

[Leyrann]

That's true. IIRC, Demandred told the other Forsaken about this. Maybe one of the Forsaken tutored Taim, as many people think. I also think one of the possibilities. And if he didn't tell the other Forsaken, well, then I think he is the one who tutored Taim. But I don't think he is an Asha'man himself, because (as I said earlier) the Black Tower was started more than a year after the Forsaken were freed (maybe even one and half a year).

[Cybertrolloc]

So what's going on in Tarabon since Andric was said to have gotten whacked way back when? If not the king, how about the new Panarch?

[OptimusPrime]

And as I said earlier, it is very unlikely two Forsaken would want to share power at one place.

 

You seem to forget that Osan'gar, Demandred and Moridin all have involvement with the Ashaman. Kisman is surrounded by them. So it is 100% likely that three Forsaken ARE sharing power at one place whether they like it or not.

[Leyrann]

Maybe that's right. Graendal (or was it Aran'gar?) had said, of course, that he and Osan'gar had to keep an eye on Rand. I could also be a random Asha'man, just once mentioned. But not Taim, as I think you voted (because I know who voted for "other"). He appeared in each book (I think) since LoC. I'm going to add "an Asha'man" to the possibilities.

[herid]

I think I have found out who Demandred is. I know, millions of people think that, but please listen.

There are a few facts we know from comments of RJ and BS.

1. Demandred did not appear on screen BEFORE KoD (RJ comment, I'm not sure when exactly), and also not in ToM (BS comment, somewhere end 2010).

2. Demandred was mentioned before KoD (Same RJ comment)

I don't know what exact comment you are referring to. Have a quote?

AFAIK, RJ and BS together rules out people who appeared on screen in any books except possibly in tGS. That includes KoD.

 

 

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Powell's Books, Portland, OR 19 November 2009 - Matrimony Cauthon reporting

 

Someone asked for clarification about whether we had seen Mesaana's and Demandred's alter-egos on screen. Sanderson said that we had seen Mesaana's alter-ego on screen as of Knife of Dreams, but that we had not seen Demandred's alter-ego on screen as of Knife of Dreams.

Towers of Midnight book tour 7 November 2010 Harvard Coop, Cambridge, MA - Zaela Sedai reporting

 

Q: Was Demandred or his proxy in Towers of Midnight?

A: No he was not; he will be in A Memory of Light.

 

 

 

 

3. RJ ruled out Mazrim Taim. But he is already ruled out by 1.

 

So then we have the one's listed above. Lunar Galgan appeared in ToM. King Roedran is not ruled out. Mazrim Taim appeared in LoC. Jarid Sarand appeared in FoH. Lord Bashere appeared in ToM. Nobody from Seanchan/Shara/Land of the Madmen is mentioned before KoD, except maybe Graendal's pets (I don't know when that was). And I'm not going to mentioned persons not longer alive (like Masema).

 

I don't understand the point of listing as possible suspects people who have been conclusively ruled out by RJ and BS. That icludes Galgan (was in KoD and ToM), Taim (I guess, he can be included for entertainment), Jarid Sarand ( onscreen in FoH and LoC) and Bashere (onscreen in multiple books).

[Leyrann]

That's right. I'm going to change it. The upper list will be of people not ruled out by facts AND not by intuition (such as King Roedran), the lower list will be of people who are technically not ruled out, but seem very unlikely (such as Mattin Stepaneos (no power left) or Old Cully (see some comments ago)).