There is not much that we can philosophize about, except exactly what Birgitte says (which I don't have to hand right now). Iirc, it would rule out conception, and would appear to be closer to, if not at the actual moment of delivery. The only point I could say that might add some extremely tenuous weight to the argument is that we know Elayne's children have recently become capable of surviving without their mother, and you could argue that this is the point that they acquire a soul (that they become individuals), and Birgitte is holding off the pull of rebirth... Really shaking stuff, but if Bela and Lanfear are alive, I would not refuse to bet on a long shot. Though that said, it would depend on the exact wording of all that Birgitte has said about her and Gaidal being reborn. Though this could be taken as the definition of looking too deeply into things 😄

But the Groves weren't Stedding (or am I missing something again?). Anyway, given the Waygate is not on the island but close by in the show, there seems little need to have a Waygate in the Tower grounds, regardless of the book, which is good enough to scratch my itch. And I'll get to that point in the books again soon anyway.

I must be remembering this wrong, but was the Tar Valon Waygate not in the grove that was in the Tower grounds? So even Novices could reach it without breaking the rules? I am misremembering this aren't I?

I always wondered what their horses were called.

I think this would be very difficult to explain, even just in terms of the books. The bond is created by the power, but does not as such draw power to exist. Therefore its nature is completely unknown, only that the one power is used to create it, but it is not of the one power itself. Also masking the bond is not done with the power, but is a mental trick of wrapping the sensation of the bond up in a mental cloth, so again not obviously using the power at all as the girls did not even need to embrace the source to do so. Which means? Meh. Maybe Bela knows. Though for the show... I just don't think we know enough. The bond should be broken if she were stilled according to book lore , but if the bond is still there, it should be a mental trick to mask/unmask it. But maybe only channelers can do it. Or maybe you need to have trained in channeling to be able to do it. The books as I remember them just are not that forth coming with specifics, don't know if the companion etc,. offer any more information about it. I'd say the show want the bond not to be broken, but not functional, with suspicion of whether Moiraine cannot or will not unmask it. Seems a bit complicated and Lan's moping about it for so long is getting kind of grating. Probably will be explained to some degree later as they have made such a big deal about it so far.

I think actually an argument can made the other way for the books. On the day before Winternight, the EF boys are have only ever heard stories where the Aes Sedai are the villains. That the Dragon tried to free the Dark One, and the Aes Sedai broke the world, and are so evil that good minded people who walk in the Light won't even talk about them. In many ways it is amazing that book Rand is not more distrustful. But yes, in the show they don't have same kind of back-drop so showing a bit of Aes Sedai ruthlessness is fairly clever, as it also raises the stakes with the Black Ajah and the Forsaken, if one of the good guys, bound by the three oaths is this tough, what will it say about them?

You could also use this to point to some of the weaknesses of trollocs, as this would not necessarily give a competitive advantage to the bravest and strongest or most skilled, but the most self-serving, devious (and only devious in relation to be able to outwit the intellect of other trollocs), untrustworthy and cowardly. Having a one-on-one fight would nearly certainly mean the death of both trollocs as they winner would also likely be easy meat for the cooking pots, which could lead to an avoidance of anything but overwhelming odds and a reluctance to take the initiative.

I think lots of characters are doing great on screen. Lanfear gets plus points just for those boots, imagine how long would they take to lace up, lol. Elayne is a great spiritual fit though she appears more pretty and posh, than beautiful and regal (what the books created in my head), but it certainly works. Her moonshine operation is a great way to highlight her fascination with swearing and the like.

Sorry, my mistake, I forgot the smiley. Modeled after life? Ah, now much is clear. My mistake for venturing an opinion. I appear to be nothing but mistakes these days. How incredibly inept of me.

I understand that I am in the minority here, it's just, well, we could have been so happy together...

My point is that, to me, it feels very much unfinished. She had put in so much work into the various projects, and the idea that the Hall will now suddenly be a bunch of little Egwenes, implementing and improving on her vision seems hopelessly optimistic. And which Amyrlin will steer the tower through these changes, Cadsuane, the Phantom Spanker of Old Tar Valon Town? What could go possibly wrong? She has such a good relationship with the Sea Folk and she does not hold every sister complete contempt. Where is the sarcasm emoji? For me, in my personal take, this feels completely off. It feels like the arc of Egwene and the Tower was broken off for a poorly executed attempt of evoking emotion. Which for me it did not manage, it did not make me feel sad, just frustrated. But as I say, I am very happy that this does not appear to be common view, because Egwene was special and it is good to know that her character was not ruined for everyone. And no, it is not life. It is a story, so I don't quite follow your arguments about me needing to suck it up and deal with the grittiness of reality. I thought we were discussing a story line that someone chose. And I loved Egwene, I mean, I really... hmm, perhaps I said too much 😄

I think it does imply somewhere (Birgette talking about Gaidal, iirc) that once they disappear from TAN that there will immediately be an infant being fed by their mother. So, iirc then the soul transfer occurs at birth, not at conception or during gestation. So it would be possible. But likely? Couldn't comment.

As I remember it, things aren't going so well between Liandrin and Suroth, and the girls are bewildered. They come forward with the a'dam, which is chaotic but the real problem is that they only brought an a'dam for Nynaeve and Egwene but Elayne was there too, which Liandrin is blamed for and retorts that she cannot be held responsible for Suroth not being able to manage a few girls and they part on very bad terms.

Another point just occurred to me. One of the things I really enjoy about the books is interaction of the characters. ("Who is Elayne, Rand?" said Egwene totally not jealous, and not in anyway threatening Rand's health if he answers wrong. "Elayne is the Daughter-Heir of Andor." Was there another way I could have phrased that? "If you cannot be serious for one second!" I knew he was seeing someone!) And that interaction is much better with more of them together, as they all have their own dynamic and the more of them there are, the less likely they are to reach an impasse or go over the same situation again and again. And not that I have scientifically tested this, I think they are more often together in the early books... I think, though I am getting less certain of this as type...

When it protects children from their parents, yes it is. By the Light and my hope of rebirth, it most definitely is.

Yes, I've always wondered if I was just being slower than RJ expected for catching on sooner, or if it was meant to be like to show how steeped in the politics and dangers of the court life of Seanchan they were. I must admit I did generally come down on the feeling that I did not pick it up well enough or the scene did not quite come off as planned, but you could look it that it was definitely meant to be completely confusing until you saw the events as they developed and then it would make sense.

I am so happy that so many people appear to have been able to appreciate Egwene's contribution. And her story arc. Because I could not. It was dumb. It was rushed. It made no sense. It sapped my will to live. Egwene's arc was to be the greatest Amyrlin of all time. She was meant to mold the White Tower into something it had never been before, overcoming the pettiness, the suspicion, the unwillingness to work together. Instead she is a footnote. She was raised as a puppet for the rebels, took over the tower as Elaida was abducted by the Seanchan. She raised rebellion, her siege failed, she was captured and she was Amyrlin for what, a few months? Everything she was working for would be undone, or half-heartedly implemented by those who did not believe. Her death in the Last Battle makes her life a failure, at least as how it will appear to the history books. The youngest ever Amyrlin due to circumstances, died in the last battle, achieved nothing. Would Alexander the Great be as revered if he had died conquering Greece? Meh. And it was such a stupid death. Taim was not even a real Forsaken. He turned a few Asha'man who were taken by surprise and could not fight back. Oooo. They will be scaring kids for centuries with stories like that. Logain or Androl should have clocked his ticket. And she, in the moment of death, wove the opposite of balefire. You mean she reversed the positronic capacitors while transmogrifying (wait, that is a real word? are you fecking kidding me spellchecker?) the semi-valent downward flow shift? You should have thought of that earlier Scotty! And she named it? While dying? I call it the Egwene Maneuver, everyone will be doing it soon, even though I'll be dead in a few seconds. But no honestly in the middle of battle everyone will have learnt the weave, its not like there are any distractions or that it is unusual to be able to learn a weave from one viewing, and people aren't so exhausted that they can barely stand. It's all good, honestly. It's sad. I like to consider myself good with words, but no, I cannot express my disappointment adequately. I mean losing any of the main characters would suck, but Egwene had been through so much, had worked so hard, and had so much still to do. But as she was not part of Rand's harem, nor needed for the planned sequels, she is bumped off, in the most ridiculous manner. I really am glad that not everyone experienced it the same. I guess the idea was to have you weeping, but for me sorry, abject failure. "My husband rides to Tarwin's Gap. Will he ride alone?" That had me in tears, heck, I'm tearing up just typing it. Egwene dying makes me want to hurt someone.

But, but, but, the pattern is balance. If Rand was doing this, it could be messing about with powers that he has no concept of (does that sound ominous enough?). How would the pattern balance the lighting of his pipe out? Wait, you mean, all those time that my lighter did not work when I smoked, getting cramp from trying to cup my hand in some way that could shield the cigarette from 360 degrees in the Edinburgh wind... Rand, I hate you.

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I have never heard of anyone naming their kids after WoT, I had two Guinea Pigs called Esme and Nanny after Granny Esmerelda Weatherwax and Nanny Gytha Ogg. Closest I have gotten. Though I bet someone has, I met a guy online in a game once that when he heard that I was from Scotland says, completely deadpan, "Cool, one of my kids is called that", yup he had three kids called Scotland, Iceland and Norway. Seemed completely sincere. One of the things I like about the Netherlands is that when you name your kids it has to be approved by the government and they can totally refuse accept the registration on grounds of stupidity. No one born here gets called Peachielalagoogles. It is literally the law.

I never understood that scene either. I think maybe RJ was overestimating how well I could follow his thought processes. In hindsight, I would say it was Suroth's plan (though presumably working under one of the chosen, so probably Semirhage as this was her sphere) to inflame the army so that she could order the "imposter" killed on sight with no questions asked. Karede was obviously brighter than me and saw the purpose of it straight away, which is why he rushed off with his troops as he realised it was a race against time, and that Tuon must be free, or her enemies would not be creating a trap for her. But yes, first time through it felt like a page had fallen out of the book or something 🙂

It was the first books that caught me, and I still find them very satisfying. Though admittedly now they are old friends, and I cannot really compare books that I can almost recite with a new book anymore. Interestingly, my experience is quite different from everything else posted here. Personally I think that if you are reading a book and thinking "this is like xxx book", something is going wrong. For me, the first book was engaging enough that I was not thinking as literary critic, but I was living the story. The defining quality of the early books is how RJ gives you the background without it seeming like plot. In your standard fantasy novel, when you hear about the evil wizard that holds the princess captive, you can see the whole plot roll out in front of you. A lost sword that can kill the wizard? Will appear in the next scene. For me, tEotW, did not need any poetic license to accept the myths and stories as that, and then when the story starts to evolve, I felt the same amazement that the characters did as they met Aes Sedai and warders and found the fecking Horn of Valere. Maybe I'm just stupid and gullible, but no book ever has done that as well, no book's world has ever felt so real, Myrddraal were scary, the One Power was believable. It has always made me scratch my head when people hold up a story about Hobbits as the gold standard of fantasy. Not worth discussing here but I hate Hobbits and cannot understand how I am meant to relate to them. [Aside, but my favourite Fighting Fantasy was Creature of Havoc, where you wake up as a monster and at first cannot control your actions so have to roll a dice to decide everything, you gain more control quite quickly and go on to find out who you are etc,. but one thing you never gain control of is that you eat Hobbits on sight, even when they are about to tell you the way out of the dungeon. So satisfying.] Back to the early books, I thought they were just awesome. Even with their forced endings for each book to feel not to unfinished, with their channelers just doing things by instinct and feel and randomly succeeding against people with hundreds of years of experience. Even with continuity errors, like Myrddraal having powers that can overcome weak Aes Sedai, that only warders have protection from, and then, nah, every main character can take care of them easily. None of that mattered, because I was actually in that world, as dumb as it could be, rather than outside of it considering parallels with other books. And just weird that some many other people could barely finish them, but love the parts of the story where the characters are like, "Hey, we need to travel really far. The fate of the world is at stake!" "Will we Travel?" "No, I'll get a really slow wagon, and a bunch of people I find really irritating, and I'll make sure that they all think they should be in command, so we can argue about it every single day." "Great idea. Wait, would it not cool if you travelled three months in wrong direction just to see their faces when you tell them you need to turn around?" "Oh man, you kill me. Definitely." "And I'll make sure not to send you any messages, so you won't find out for months that the reason you are leaving is solved the after you leave, and you won't find out that your mother is not dead, is actually looking for you and may well be dead by the time you arrive where you are going, or who the bad guys are or where they are." "You think of everything. This is going to be awesome." And most of the conversations are about beans. Guess it would be boring if we all liked the same things.

OK, I'm months late, but this is such an astute observation. Anyone that does not have any martial arts training is instead given a bunch of knives, a ten minute talk with Thom Merrilin and it is exactly like an Action Hero handing their side kick a 9mm with a snarky aside asking if they know which end the bullet comes out of. And the conceit that somehow more knives are better, though that would imply that you could actually hit something with deadly force at a distance that stabbing them would not be easier. It is like trollocs look inside a farmhouse, "Who is in there?" "It is just a pair of women." "Yes! Are they armed?" "They have belt knives!" "Hahahahahaha!" "And knives up their sleeves! Arrggghh!" "Run!"

I can only concur the ending feels off. The end part from Rand's POV is just so egocentric, the mounds of dead at Merrilor, Egwene, Rhuarc (ok not at Merrilor, but still), Hurin, etc., but he got out of it, his harem is intact, and he is one jolly little roger. It just does not fit the book or the character that the cost of victory is not nearly unbearable, that he does not wish that he somehow could have protected them more, he was the Dragon, it was meant to be his blood at Shayol Ghul, it just feels wrong. Nope, I'll just light my cancer-giving pipe (who wants to live hundreds of years?), and toddle off into the sunset with a grin and my new powers that I did nothing to earn. All those dead people? Bunch of losers, good riddance. And those that survived? Light, I've put up with them long enough. Why couldn't they all have died? Am I overreacting? I think I might be...

Definitely Mat is something of the ultimate hero. Rand has a duty that he does not want, but tries his best to do the best for everyone. But if he could have not been the Dragon, he would have run. Understandable, but really he is trying to make the best of a bad situation. And the gleeful way that he shirks the you must die to save the world duty, still does not sit well with me. Now if he had ridden off on Bela, the symbol of the Emond's Field Six, the last minute addition to their quest at the behest of the pattern (Egwene was only coming to be buttocks on her saddle), a metaphor for the raising by Tam and the Manetheren sensibilities that was root of why Rand succeeded and Lews Therin failed, I think we could have had a nice coming back to the start again. OK, not riding, leading her pulling a cart with his stuff, juxtaposing the first chapter. But I digress again (as is my wont). Perrin is somewhat selfish (perhaps not the best way to put it), in a heroic way, but is always looking out for his wife, family, home. He is a hero, but things like rescuing Gaul he did because he wanted to. In many way Perrin is the weak link, as he himself is aware that he would let the Dark One win to save Faile, but he is saved from that possibility by his story lines taking so long there simply was not space in the books, not even WoT. Mat on the otherhand does a whole bunch of things that he doesn't want to do. Saves people who don't like him, battles shadowspawn assassins with only pendant to protect himself, has body parts cut out for other people. And he wears a hat, you always need a good hat if you want to be a hero. And though he tries to avoid these situations, as long as that house is burning with the kids inside, he is going to get them. He would not shirk off that duty if he could. This goes all the way back to the first book I think? Where Moiraine is comparing him to an uncle she had? Actually that does not seem like I am remembering that correctly, does not seem like a story out of the Cairhein royal palace, but sure it happens very early in the book, [thinking about it, it is a much more folky-story so probably Siuan or Leanne after the healing, so not quite the first book where to be fair Mat is fairly two-dimensional, and hasn't yet bought all his knives, had a crash training in throwing that everyone gets from Thom apparently, and remembered that he has quarterstaff, something suspiciously absent from the first book when they are setting out and despairing over not knowing how to use weapons outside of the bow] setting out Mat's character before we see it action, captured badgers notwithstanding. The taking of the damane I don't think goes against this. In the battle, he could have captured her or killed her. Capturing is the more humane option here. Afterwards, the lifelong enslavement with brutal torture, might not be a better option than a clean death, but I can only imagine that the whole damane issue was being left to the sequels, where all of this would have been dealt with, and Mat's personal damane would probably have featured large in this story line.