I haven’t been able to make sense of this, perhaps you or someone can tell me what I’m missing. Do we ever learn what “the tell” is? Or how it’s possible that her long term bonded warder could have been unaware of it?

I might be misinterpreting your question. Having disclosed that I don’t fully understand the mechanism behind the bowl of the winds, but when we see it used in the books there were no men present. However, I’m pretty sure whoever is facilitating the narrative through their point of view IIRC remarks upon some awareness of saidin interacting somehow anyway. I could be completely wrong here though, I haven’t reread the books repeatedly.

Both arcs were significant and satisfying to me as the reader but I think verin had a deeper impact in my experience probably based on her presence and glimpses into her POV for so much more of the story. Ingtar is basically introduced and wrapped up within the space of one book out of 15, whereas verin is a relatively integral character for a much larger portion of the series. Kinda like the difference between an acquaintance and an old friend.

I just have to acknowledge and commend your ability to binge watch something under the right circumstances…I too have a knack for consuming a lot of content in a short period of time in the rare occasions when I’m alone. It’s fantastic…I absolutely wear pajamas the whole day, too.

I’m genuinely eager to see what your feelings about the second season will be! Please fill us in on your opinion of the premiere and whether it is strong enough to determine your desire or lack thereof to continue watching. I always enjoy reading your comments.

Cheers to that! Although I don’t see why you couldn’t just part with a mere 50 million…

I see your point here but respectfully must disagree, not that I see my opinion as right and/or yours wrong but I just wanted to say that I was frustrated with gawyn much sooner. To be specific it first happened for me and was excruciatingly frustrating when he facilitated the battle to take down siuan and then immediately changes course and frees her. Pick a lane, gawyn! I’m not saying it’s the fact that he had a change of heart, it’s that he never really did. He seems to just do stuff and then do other contradictory stuff without any clear understanding of why he’s doing things. Another example of RJ writing characters who reflect very real human flaws, so I don’t object to gawyn or his actions as a whole, just stating that he frequently frustrated me much earlier on than he did you 😊

Off topic but I love your username. My dad passed a couple of years ago but one of his favorite comments was “pandemonium” in general terms of society in its glorious weirdness. Thank you for reminding me of a great man 🥰 he would announce it in airports and Starbucks and stuff 😂

Thanks for your insights, I appreciate the help from readers more knowledgeable and experienced than I am 👍

I love the development of mat’s character throughout the series. We have 3 taveren and they all come with their own unique abilities. I never really knew what explained the luck factor….Perrin has this ancient wolf thing and Rand is the dragon effing reborn, and those two are so serious and intense. Then mat has some deeply rooted skills and what not but the luck thing just is what it is and can’t be traced to anything else in the universe. Plus he’s not as brooding or serious as the other two and it was refreshing for me as the reader. Not that he doesn’t have his own internal conflict about his role, but I enjoyed the less defined and explainable aspects of his “superpowers”

Is it certain that if the female half of the power had participated in the event then both aspects of the OP would have been tainted? Or could it be possible that both forces working together may have been strong enough to successfully overpower the DO? No way to know for sure, for many reasons (for example the story would never have happened) but it seems like it is accepted as fact by readers that this was the only outcome possible.

I like your train of thought here. I don’t know if this is relevant to your point or not but I don’t quite know how to reconcile the viewpoint declaring the “arrogance” of men was a flawed motive and fundamentally caused the audacity to attempt to contain the dark one in the first place….but what was the preferred alternative? Submit and resolve to be forever oppressed by the DO in order to not appear or act arrogant? I tend to view it more as an act of courage born out of desperation and desire to benefit humanity as a whole than an ego fueled display of arrogance. It may have been doomed to fail but I find it more appalling to think that no one would have resisted or attempted to fight for freedom at all.

Good point regarding not knowing that channelers could be forced to the dark side. Additionally I thoroughly understand and agree that Rand had so many obligations and couldn’t possibly see to them all himself. I get the necessity to address the gathering and training of male channelers and the impracticality of Rand seeing to it himself. For one thing, he can’t train and teach the ability to harness the OP when he himself doesn’t know how or what to do. I’m aware of the situation being the way it is for a good reason but it still causes me excruciating and agonizing anxiety and frustration lol! one more question, did LTT know about the ability to force people to the shadow, was it common knowledge in the AOL? LTT is very adamant in using his knowledge to influence Rand. Too bad he’s mad and doesn’t explain his reasoning coherently.

Interesting thought. As thoroughly baffled as I still am at this point in my first reread of the series by the handling of the BT by Rand, I admit I don’t have any idea what alternative would be preferable (in terms of the realistic and practical limitations on rands time and attention to go around) and what timing would have been ideal to strike even if an alternative approach existed. Having said that, I still can’t comprehend how the deeply paranoid and innately untrusting Rand at that point in the story essentially sought out, gathered and subsequently created an unstoppable force of powerful, sizable, concentrated and unpredictable/dangerous army of male channelers and then appeared to entirely ignore and neglect the whole thing. He never seemed to have much trust for taim from the get go. It’s like he kinda knowingly created a monster that clearly was as likely to turn against him as follow him, and instead of taking that knowledge of the necessary risk and being alert and observant of the situation, I felt like he just abandoned and blocked the whole thing from his consciousness entirely! Ok, rant concluded. I didn’t realize how much I needed to get that off my chest, thank you for the opportunity and sorry for the long post. But. Wtf?

True. Also if the show can effectively convey clearly through the ornaments worn by and embraced by the seanchan society due to absolute faith in the ingrained belief system defining their very existence, identity and values then it could still convey the underlying spirit of that element of story.

Wow, thanks for your clarification and fascinating and significant realization it then presents. While at first glance the lack of participation by women clearly created an inherent diminishing of the potential strength that may have been utilized in the effort to defeat or at least definitively imprison the DO, leading to an understandable assumption that this was the obvious weakness or explanation for the failure to achieve the intended mission. The awareness that had the women actually participated and aligned with the men may very well have been more catastrophic is very enlightening and fundamentally important or at least thought provoking information. I’m way behind in general when it comes to having an understanding of the situations that more experienced fans know inside and out.

Is there any explanation for why saidin was corrupted and not saidar? I just realized that I must have assumed that the DO was defined by a gender construct, namely male in general. Now I’m feeling naive and embarrassed to admit that I assumed the DO was inherently “male ish” and therefore the taint had to be tied to saidin. So moving past my blunder and acknowledging that forces of nature/creation on the level of the DO itself are not constrained by gender constructs, what caused specifically the male half of the power to be vulnerable to the DO corruption? Is it because the men were the ones actively channeling at the time so the DO had easier access to saidin?

I don’t have a strong need to see the leashes on screen, especially compared to other things I would personally consider more impactful for the story, but having said that I do wonder how the viewers will be able to connect who is controlling who. Although maybe it doesn’t really matter 🤷‍♀️

Good points. Also, in the books isn’t it eventually revealed that the leash is actually not necessary to facilitating the forced link? Regardless of whether the seanchan themselves in the books believe or are aware of this fact doesn’t change the inherent reality. My point being that if in fact the leash is not actually functional in book canon, it’s reasonable to understand why the show runners eliminated the potentially cumbersome detail in the show while still keeping with the overall theme of one class of society being utterly controlled and enslaved and subservient to another. Silly example and probably not exactly comparable, but should period pieces that take place in a time where people accepted as fact that the earth was flat then be portrayed on screen as taking place on a flat earth? Oh yikes…some people still believe the earth is flat…

Hahaha! Yes!! I was so giddy with the excitement over the opportunity of posting that very response that the only scenario that could have topped it was immediately discovering in the next post that you had so eloquently already delivered it! 😂 my deepest gratitude, thank you

Well….yes and no. I found myself cringing through many or probably most romantic plots and other dynamics besides (why the eff is everyone in this universe spanking each other? It’s the accepted discipline tactic within an organization of grown adults, and commonly and casually used in conversations as an appropriate approach for men to use against women) .yet I still consider myself a super fan and inexplicably found myself tolerating and accepting some themes that otherwise would deter me and kept me reading and loving the series.

For the record I don’t have a strong personal opinion about the portrayal of the damane on screen, but your point starting with “a man tells a woman…” definitely makes me think…and I appreciate any perspective that makes me think

I’m also rereading for the first time. I already look forward to the rereading the first 4-5 even though I haven’t completed the first reread yet! I’m on book 10.

I realize that I’m on my own island here, but I kinda appreciated the maturing of sexuality in the show. The characters in the books seemed so prudish and downright unrealistic to me. Except, of course, when those same characters suddenly become a ok with a poly relationship. It’s not that simple, a different universe, I know. Just saying.

Absolutely. Well said. Not only wasn’t always what others thought he should do, but usually even he didn’t think he should do it 😂 He is the best example of a reluctant hero that I can think of. He took olver in. He rescued the women from ebou dar and was deeply troubled by the inevitable losses of lives and the inability to save everyone. Even after he put himself at risk to rescue the girls in tear, and subsequently was not appreciated for his efforts, he was still prepared to risk his life again and again for people with no benefit to himself. Case in point, moiraine. He not only knowingly put himself in danger, he paid a hefty price for her life and freedom. I think he is such a genuine person with inherent integrity, in spite of or more likely because of his lack of awareness and intention Or trying to be a noble hero. The perception and treatment of him by the girls always makes me have a hard time liking them.