4 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

My big issue with Androl is how artificial his arc is, it just jars so much with the rest of the writing in the entire series. In particular, Brandon Sandersons need to create artificial tension around the dream spike, Perrin "suddenly closing it", it is just such bad writing that it sticks out a mile compared to the rest of the series. At no point did RJ need to create artificial tension in this way, the way he then also uses Androl as a get out of jail free card for other key moments.

As an aside, I also want to say please watch the words you use, the word Spastic is horrifically insulting to people, it is the reason why a charity changed its name in 1994, I have a friend who if they had read that would have been triggered because of childhood bullying. I get it is a word in the english language but it has conetations that go far beyond its actual meaning. 

Thank you for informing me. I hope it’s clear I didn’t use that word to intentionally hurt anyone. I picked it for the mouth-feel. That being said, “fervent” would be a better choice in this context. 

I'm so lost on this conversation.

Are we trying to say Robert Jordan was a man of his age, with all the biases of men of his age, and those biases reflected in the content of his books? Well yeah, duh. I'm sure he tried his best to consult Harriet et. al. for other perspectives, but he ultimately was the author of his works. And that's fine. That's what being human is. Not perfect.

But if this has more to do with the show and people getting upset about women having more screen-time/importance than men, well... men have been in power for, like, forever, so maybe one (fantasy) show depicting the opposite (agenda or no) isn't too tough a pill to swallow?

37 minutes ago, Pandemonium said:

At this point I still think we are getting max 5 seasons, so who knows.  Shadar Haran would likely be easier to represent on screen than an abstract dark one though.  

 

Although I honestly don't remember what happened to SH though.  He mind trapped and raped the forsaken, did he even appear after that?  I feel like he disappeared before the last battle

Pretty sure Rand sees what’s left of SH’s corpse on his per-3000 year visit to the dark one. The idea being that the DO had no further use for SH. 

17 minutes ago, Samt said:

Interesting take.  I wouldn't have really classified RJ's magic system as "soft" and I don't really see BS as making it harder.  He's adding more weird things that are possible with the magic and creating a sort of innovation mindset.  All the weird things you can do with a gateway or with [warder] bonding.  Feedback from unweaving is still super unpredictable.  

 

But the idea of talents and power levels already existed from RJ.  I see BS as more just exploring and showing us the dark and twisted corners that were always there in the system that RJ created.  It's given that current channelers haven't imagined even a small fraction of the things that AoL channelers could do with the one power.  BS exploring a little of that is fun.  What things does BS add that you would consider as making the system "harder"?

I’m mostly floundering in my own poor recollection, but I think what I’m getting at is that BS made channeling more complex than RJ, I think, would have done. The only thing that comes to mind with Androl is the double-bonding, which, again, feels beyond the reach of RJs intent. I’m not surprised, but personally I find it boring when everything is as well-defined as BS has a habit of doing. Recently I read Tress of The Emerald Sea, just to give BS another go, and while I liked some of it, it felt like BS was really limiting the readers imagination by being too clear and exact with how that worlds magic system works, the spores and whatnot. This makes sense when you consider he’s tying that book into his massive universe of books and he needs all the complex (blah) magic systems to line up in a way he finds satisfying, but that was never really the point for me when I read RJs books. Just tried to get back into Stormlight Archive and I just…can’t. It’s not fun for me the same way it is for him. 

14 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

I like sanderson style better, and i like androl and his take on magic. Channelers tend to be very inefficient in their use of the power. It makes sense for aes sedai, since they never faced a challenge that would force them to innovate. But in front of total war, people adapt quickly. Even aes sedai.

 

 

We see it on a few kinswomen, but yes, not much.

By the way, i like how the show have most women fight with air. Women are supposed to be weak in fire, and while fire is easier to weaponize, it's better to take the stuff you are strong with and find ways to weaponize it than using a weak fire power

@Samt as well, I’m just on phone so I can be bothered to try and double-quote.

I don’t have a problem with Androl being introduced and present in the BS books, but I don’t respond well to BS taking RJs “soft-magic” system and, as he is wont to do, trying to over-define it. I’m sure there’s other examples of this is the final trilogy, but Androl just comes to mind as the most grating. Androl feels like a BS character, not an RJ character. 
 

Relating it back to the thread topic, I find it kind of humorous that BS had so many critiques for S2 when he made so many Sanderson-ism mistakes in the last three books. But also, everyone’s human and I’m sure he was as emotional and spastic as any reader watching S2E8 for the first time. 

53 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Exactly. What I remember him saying (and could be misremembering) was that when he felt like he was getting stuck with other stuff, he could always return to Androl. It was sort of his security blanket.

Unfortunately, that shows in the books. ☹️

Woke up this morning and realized I had swapped events from the books and the show. The first wound is caused by Ishamael, not the dagger. 
 

Mods, please feel free to bale fire this thread!

I was just re-reading a snippet of The Dragon Reborn where Rand enters the Heart of Stone. Upon a re-read I was fascinated with how eager Be'lal was to fight (and best) Rand in a sword fight, so eager it delayed him long enough for Moiraine to show up. Rand's old wound opens during the fight. After that battle, when Ba'alzamon descends from above and begins to tear Rand's soul from his body, I wonder if the only reason Rand survives this onslaught is because the True Power can't defeat an opposite evil.
 

Quote

Ba’alzamon’s blow struck him as he leapt, struck inside him, a ripping and crumpling, tearing something loose, trying to pull a part of him away. Rand screamed. He felt as if he were collapsing like an empty sack, as if he were being turned inside out. The pain in his side, the wound taken at Falme, was almost welcome, something to hang on to, a reminder of life. His hand closed convulsively. On Callandor’s hilt.

On the topic of Elayne healing Rand instead of Nynaeve doing it, I suspect the writers will reference this scene later in the series as forming a "healing-bond" between Elayne and Rand, as was the case in the books whenever someone was healed by another. In addition, from a visual perspective, she starts out with a small amount of healing weaves, and, realizing it isn't enough, amplifies the weaves in some way that may prove to be important later.

P.S. Nynaeve seems more surprised than impressed here.

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I've been wondering if Egwene used Renna to channel herself onto the hook, bypassing the issue of doing it herself?

There's something funky with how the one power is being shown here too. We can see Egwene's weave's by her body, but not by Renna. Also, she seems to be concentrating more than she would be if she were channeling the weave herself.

Edit: On top of that, she is using her hand to guide the weave. A very anti-Egwene thing, as we have seen be re-enforced this season.

1 hour ago, Scarloc99 said:

How do you want your TV to be made? It needs to be paid for and streamers have demonstrated that subscriptions alone can’t pay the bills and keep the lights on. Let alone pay for quality tv. Disney plus is generating immense losses, Netflix is making money but not as much as it should be, and who knows what the Amazon model is. 

 

Linear cable tv paid for big budget tv through selling tv ads on top of the subscription you paid to watch. Why should streamers be different? 

My stance is that if I can’t avoid ads, either by

a) paying directly for a service, like Prime (used to be) or,

b) other means…

then I won’t partake in the service. It’s not worth the brainwashing to me. 

I won't be subjected to ads. I avoid them like the plague. It's sad to see that people who already pay so much for Prime get squeezed even more. As @Mirefox said, I believe this will jeopardize the quality of the show, even if it adds to the production budget.

1 minute ago, SinisterDeath said:

I actually loved how Rand just ganked Turak. 

I'm so glad I didn't have to watch Turak fight with those ridiculous nails.

Great execution up until the moment Mat almost executed Rand. Is there seriously nothing beefier Ishamael could have thrown at Egwene than fire darts?!

51 minutes ago, Finnssss22 said:

Now let me just state right off the bat that this is premised with the assumption (and hope we all have) Mat will indeed be blowing what he needs to blow tomorrow night.

"Is this a sex thing, or a murder thing?" Cause either way, I'd prefer he blows something next episode.

1 hour ago, Vartija said:

I just couldn't get interested in this plot so I'm mainly just happy it's over now.

 

The conclusion of it was kind of funny though. Lan's breathless excitement explaining his great discovery and him advising barely-able-to-channel Rand how to cut the knot. Lan's humble apology for doing Moiraine's work for her and Moiraine just smiling there as if she couldn't have helped fix this great mystery. Just a weird little scene to conclude a convoluted side plot.

 

At least it gave us Research Assistant Lan, so that's good. 

Weird for all the reasons you stated. Things don't improve when Siuan enters, but the visuals of Rand cutting the knot are so coooooool. The madness in his weave looks nuts.

I'm so glad we won't have to wait an entire season to get an answer to this nail-biting question: How exactly will Egwene's head be re-attached?

If only Moraine's "stilling" could have taken place in Season 2 Episode 1...

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

I bet you a million internet dollars. 

You could buy so many memes with that kind of money.

How do we know the a'dam is fixed in form? Perhaps it has a feature to contract the iron-man portion whenever they are allowed to clean themselves. Am I forgetting some obvious contradiction here?

3 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Isn't he the one who shot that movie over literally 12 years?

Yep, "Boyhood" is the one you are thinking of. The Sunrise Trilogy is my favorite of his works.

1 minute ago, Agitel said:

Hmm...

 

I like and dislike them leaving with Lanfear. I see how it can work, but it still rankles a bit. Rand had a sort of truce with her at times... Feels like a change for Moiraine to be with a Forsaken. But maybe not. It's just more explicit and direct. She was aware of Asmodean.

 

And Lanfear and Ishy aren't exactly playing the same game. Some of their means may overlap a little.

 

BUT WHAT ABOUT MAT COME ON? WHERE'S MY BOY?

 

Even with these changes, I feel like this show could really use ten episodes a season for pacing and development purposes.

I don't know what is the worse of two evils, fewer details per episode, but better pacing, or more details but worse pacing. Rafe probably feels like he's in a vice.

Just now, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

It fits with the books - Aes Sedai are smugly convinced that they know everything it is worth knowing (about the one power and everything else) and until something new is rubbed in their faces they do not admit it exists.   Aes Sedai do not know how to tie off weaves therefore they cannot be tied off and she is not able to think otherwise so she must be stilled.  

 

But I really do not like the "one forsaken could not have stilled you" - when Rand breaks the shield at Dumai's wells he stills multiple Aes Sedai at once.  

Yep, I was thinking of exactly this moment with Rand. Maybe the kind of "weave expansion" stuff he was doing there was really honed by the time he breaks the box that he kind of over-does it, but perhaps its actually very hard/ impossible for most channelers to do on their own without the kind of practice he had while beat-boxing.

2 minutes ago, mogi68 said:

I really don't like what they did with Rand. On his knees/shielded and bound for half the episode, moments after "whatever happens, face it on your feet". Come on man

Agreed, but I think his embarrassment/failure now will be his motivation later. "It's not just the people you love, it's the whole world you have to protect." Or whatever he said.

 

2 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

For one thing... I know Lan isn't a "meat head", but I'd think the topic of the one power would be really above his head, and some super rare topic like "knotted weaves from the age of Legends" had to have come from a sly Verin nudge... But I missed it if it was there.

 

But in modern terms... it felt like Lan was mandplaining Saidar to Moiraine, and he was right. Lol

100%. Still, I hope on a re-watch it doesn't come across as so off-key.

14 minutes ago, Pandemonium said:

Can't say I love this episode, which is too bad after the momentum from last 3 episodes.  

Gitara's foretelling felt very underwhelming.  Usually the cold openings are great, but this one was rushed and.the acting felt odd.  Matt's hallucination scene was just really weird and I don't think provided that much insight into any character other than Ishamael.  

 

Bathanes darkfriend turn and sudden demise was way too abrupt.  Lanfear never attacked a city head on like that before in the books.  The whole thing where they said a forsaken is not strong enough to still a sister is ridiculous. 

 

Siuan seems so out of character.  They are doing way too much storytelling here.  Rand is so weak and he is heading into the final episode

 

Egwene and Perrin were best things about this episode.  

 

Yikes, I would say this is one of the worst episodes, but not as bad as season 1 episode 8.  

 

I have really tried to promote positivity this whole season and tried to get people involved watching the show,  but these writing choices were just baffling.

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

I really can't disagree.

 

I don't know why they have Lan playing One Power detective for Moiraine?

 

That doesn't feel like a puzzle he should solve on his own... 

 

Did I miss any note passing between him and Verin? 

I'd echo all these critiques. Gitara scene at the beginning was rushed, as you said, but Rosamund Pike's younger Moiraine was not good.

I thought the Matt scene would be longer, with more of a...resolution. I will say, I like seeing myriad sides of Ishamael. He is the father of so many lies. He must be such a proud dad.

Agreed Bathane's was rushed. Not enough of an on-screen connection between himself and Avaere to sell it.

I bet Rand will do some crazy stuff next episode to make up for it.

"I will kill you"

I haven't enjoyed the last two episodes as much as this one, but I'm starting to think the last half of the season would view better in one sitting vs split up. We'll see.

P.S. Oh yes, Detective Lan was weird too. Rushed. Same with his Cat Crosses The Courtyard stuff. Oh well.