I don't mind the show being canceled, but I really hope Rosamund Pike finishes narrating the series. She is a very talented voice-actor. 

  On 4/19/2025 at 3:20 AM, Sabio said:

You could remove Loial and Siuan and would the book miss a beat?  After being deposed Siuan had some book time but did she really do anything important? To me Samm is another that really didn't do enough, that if it was taken out would've weakened the book.  Loial honestly could be removed entirely from the book.   I assume Allana is staying becuase of the bonding of Rand and they need someone to get stabbed in every episode.

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Just removing Loial though, you are losing the entire world-building aspect of the Ogier. It may not make the most sense in the greater theme of the books, but it's definitely unique and interesting.

  On 4/19/2025 at 3:11 AM, jh557 said:

 

I have to agree. I'm glad that some people can find that they are happy with the show. I get to a content to sometimes a slight happy feeling good phase and then pops up an episode that I cannot get out of my head for how much I hated it. Like I really enjoyed Rand's visions from his ancestors and thought that Josha was great in that episode. I actually think most of the actors are really pretty darn good overall. I just think that the writing is just lacking. And in certain episodes it is so bad that it takes away so much not just from the IP but severely drops the quality of the show alone.  

 

Like you and probably a lot of the people that are still hanging around here I have loved the IP since I first picked the books up. Literally half my lifetime ago while I was still a teenager. Painfully waiting for the next book to come out. Although I was probably luckier than some of you all as I finished my first read through a few months before The Gathering Storm came out, so I didn't have to spend all that much time waiting.  RJ had also passed shortly before I started reading the series, so I didn't live through the age of him and his tricky answers and ROFs. But I read through so many of those interviews on the internet and was on Theoryland seeing and following along with people's personal predictions and the factions and arguments that everybody was making for why they had to be right. I loved and still love the story that RJ told. And the discussions it has spawned. And because of that I will not be able to stop watching this show until it is canceled or ends how it ends.    

 

 

Another plot hole tied into this hole. Unless I missed something in Mo's visions of her futures that we saw it seems like her deaths are tied to choking, stabbing, or throat cutting. I don't recall a scene in the visions where they are grappling and flying through the air or some kind of boom or explosion from the melting of the doorway as they slam together hard on the floor/ground both appearing dead before going black or cutting to a different possible future. Them not showing it as a possibility is I think another bad writing miss. Like they could have also had a scene of Mo tackling Lanfear off the top of the tower and falling toward the ground and a cut to other tackling scenes and flying through the air into dragonmount lava and/or onto a spear to not just give it away as THE future. Just something to establish that her death did not have to be slicing and dicing and might involve a fall of some sort. I get trying not to lay it on too think, but they could have avoided outright showing them perfectly falling through the doorway or only shown a shadowy Finn's fancy skin boot in the periphery in the vision as they lay bleeding or unconscious on the ToG floor. I mean they did quite literally grapple and fly through the air in the actual battle scene, so its not like it would just give it away. I don't understand why they wouldn't show even a hint of it and other similar variants of the possible future that the book readers are expecting while at the same time setting up the Finns-Mat-possibly Min-ToG this season and then not even showing that Mo might be tied to it as well except because they moved the doorway from the Waste and were left with just stabby stab gore. And Mo and Rand bonding. Mo and Lanfear hooking up. Oh and Mo and Rand hooking up. Just wasteful seconds flashing by that drive the story absolutely nowhere and show an immaturity of Rafe or the writers needing to beat off more before coming into work. 

 

I get them not showing a falling or airborne death scene does not mean it won't happen. But it is bad foreshadowing to not show it for setting it up in the future the book readers are expecting especially now that the Finns have been introduced and they both didn't die. And show watchers now expecting a sword killing showdown. She saw a thousand thousand futures surely one was the scene you are imagining and might get in the future! Maybe but the only ones the show writers thought were important were the slicing and stabbing ones though. Because bad writing left them with only the scene that they gave us.

 

They wrote themselves into a corner because they chose to have a Mo/Lanfear showdown this season and not next season. It was not necessary to have it this season. The wrote it that way. They chose to move the doorway locations because they chose to change Mat's storyline from the Waste and chose to show Elaida coming from a doorway that did not need to be located in the Tower for some new plot that they have made up. And because they chose not let bad horny Rand have a moment (other than making that dry desert wet! and even then Eg has to tell him to let go of the power and finish) He could have had to actually fight Samuel in a real battle after Sam ambushes him worn out from the columns. Show off his strength in Rhuidean similarly to the source material and accidently destroy the mist barrier so the doorframe and/or other Ter'angreal if there were any were revealed. Mo could have even came awake just in time to save the day and get him shielded with the sa'angreal. Rand actually could have had his big drawn out flashy battle and Mo also gets to stay the most important. It could have happened in episode 5 so we could explore the teaching aspect more. Maybe have a couple of disgruntled lessons before Mogy just killing Samuel. Maybe he could have found out how to test others to find out if they could channel so he can get started on the Black Tower plot the second he secures a city across the dragonwall. We could have had that battle and not whatever that was in episode 6. And he could kill a different little girl in Tear and try and heal her with near unlimited power of Callendor as written instead. The big battle at the end of the season could have been unblocked Nyn blasting Lin killing her or just blasting her unconscious. I hear that characters that don't have much plot left in the books are good to go and can just be covered by somebody else, so Lin should certainly make that list as she is just a shielded loser coming up. That blast of power could attract Mogy. Nyn recognizing and going toe to toe with her and learning to truly believe and trust in her strength. Nope part the waters and get on the boat Nyn. The Nyn very famous for just shrugging, giving up, and just walking away when her friends are in danger. Best of luck to you Rand. Avoid being collared! 

 

But Pike must star. And all of these choices left them without an "out" for Mo  that was not permanent death or a victory and ultimately resulted in neither obviously dying and further in them needing another flashy death for the season and thus Suian (screaming defiance till her last breath to spit in Sightblinder's eye glorious moment as it was-I still hated it because I love her resilient growth arc with Eg) which has set the WoT people at each others throats all over the internet. Even show only people are raging over her death and the deliberately gory way it was done. One of those butterfly flaps its wings.... and a volcano erupts on the other side of the world moment it seems. 

 

The source material for Mo and Lanfear showdown was important for setting up the ToG, getting Lan to Nyn, for Rand's growth, and for the last battle. We did not have the doorframe, so I figured the Mo was not going to die. I did think that Lanfear was actually going to die setting up rebirth for her and Ishy at the beginning of next season. Then a further confrontation of revenge next season with a doorframe somehow. Didn't get that. That's fine I'm not being paid by the show. But the show does set it up as a huge moment. Either Mo wins or the last battle is lost here in season 3. Was it flashy? At times, yes. Did either die? Doesn't appear so. All I saw were easy to heal wounds in this age. Is Lan cool yet? Sure as hell no. Do swords have some extra special ability against the one power? The way the warders be dancing around an hanging in there they must. Does Mo still have to kill Lanfear for Rand to ultimately win? Who knows? If its not convenient to bring it up again then we will be expected to just forget about it and welcome her as Cadsuane. Oh wait her death and eventual return is pivotal to the entire storyline of winning the last battle? I guess we have to find out how many doorframes there are. One for every capital city maybe. If not when will Mo be headed back to her confrontation with Lanfear at Elaida's tower? Or will it be in Seachan controlled Tanchico? Or just a good old nonhealing sword wound and Brigette rebirth because why not. Are the Finn just a fun element to give to book readers to say damn here you go or is there still a future plot of ToG? Is Mo too important to be removed and go through the doorframe? Sure seems like it. Maybe Matt can go to the Finn and rescue Oliver or his sisters. 

 

I haven't posted so far this season because I was just letting things play out. And I thought there was some truly great scenes this season and was hoping that things were fully on the upswing. Also in seasons past I ended up typing up a rant like this and didn't really want to be doing that. I truly don't want to bring others down on their good feelings. But these writers just do not seem capable of telling the story of the EF5. Hell they do not seem to even begin to understand them. Except for goofy Mat. The more serious aspect of the rest of them are as lost as Perrin displaying even a hint of having any cool abilities.   

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Well articulated. Just speaking to the emotion I'm feeling from your words, I'm also sad it's not the show I was hoping it would be. There are still moments that I get to enjoy though. I've definitely transitioned to not expecting as much from it, and that has helped me. And ultimately, the books are perfection, even in their imperfect form.

  On 4/18/2025 at 11:33 PM, The_Watcher_And_Wanderer said:

What was the deal with the voting scene?  Why did so many of the sitters stand for Suian only after they asked who stood for Elida? 

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Sheeple.

  On 4/18/2025 at 9:58 PM, Mirefox said:

I never considered compulsion, which would be plausible except didn’t Moggy kind of wipe that at the end of their talk?

 

But otherwise, her just standing there was monumentally stupid.

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I'd have to go back and watch the compulsion scene again, but I thought Moggy implied something like "Serve me in perpetuity." and then undid the hypnosis part of the compulsion, leaving the deeper need to obey.

I'll try my best to phrase these few questions/comments with the knowledge the books provide as well as the changes the show introduces, but everything is so mixed up now it's hard to know:

- Is it possible Elaida's headaches and foresight talent were provided by her trip through the red doorway? Is it related to the bracelet she wears?
- When Matt mentions the screams while inside the doorway, it made me think the voices in his head are actually caused by his interactions with the dagger. Which would align with the memory loss he experiences in the books when he is fully healed from the effects of the dagger.
- Was Lanfear not able to heal the cut Lan gives her? It kind of looked like that but I could have just blinked and missed it.

Edit:
- Oh and I was wondering about why Nynaeve was just waiting outside with the collar. That must have been her compulsion at work. A fly caught in a web. 

There were many terrible plot choices for this episode, but seeing Perrin dual-wield axe and hammer was awesome!

  On 2/14/2024 at 2:46 PM, MostOfTsushima said:

Lexi Eve! I love it 🙂 

 The chapter where Rand reclaims the Horn of Valere and the dagger  from Fain, dark friends and trollocs- while battling his internal need to use Saidin is epic!

 I do not think your swordplaytheory is what Robert Jordan intended, but ... reliving pretty much infinite lives could not have hurt for Rand, as far as general wisdom and maturation goes. 

  By far the most important lesson from the Portal Stones for Rand (in particular) was the fact that he was destined to Channel Saidin, and was undeniably the Dragon Reborn.  As you probably know, Rand did not accept the idea that he was truly Lews Therin Reborn when confronted by the Amyrlin seat, it just re-established his conviction that he would NOT BE USED by anybody.  Ba'alzamaon or the White Tower. 

' It was only when reliving all of those lives months later, living and dying matched against his ancient rival, Ishamel (whether aware or not) that the truth sunk in.

 

 

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It's interesting because it might explain where Rand's madness comes from. Maybe part of the reason he is so fixated on having a Lews Therin persona in his head is because he experienced Ishamael calling him by that name over infinite lives/deaths.

I've heard samples of the books read by Kramer and Reading, but ever since I purchased Pike's narration of The Eye of The World I've been hooked on listening to her version. She has an incredible range, considering how many characters she has to play. You can tell she puts a lot of effort and focus into reading these books. I think some of her voice acting is a little inconsistent throughout the books, but it's not very noticeable at all.

I absolutely agree on going along with it. Like I said, my first impressions based off one head shot from both actors isn't a good litmus test for how they'll actually present themselves in the show. It was just odd to see what I thought opposite casting choices would be. I even think Featherston looks like Rand, which further added to my confusion that he would be playing Gawyn.

@king of nowhereagreed on Lanfeare. She's not my type when it comes to most beautiful woman and the age gap between herself and the actor that plays Rand is constantly obvious, but she does commit to the role.

I'm so confused. When I first saw the front page post I thought immediately that Luke Featherston was Galad. He looks like a tall/dark/mysterious model-type. And Callum Kerr looks very comedic in this shot, so I figured, must be Gawyn. But it's the opposite?? Looks can be deceiving though, and I haven't seen previous work from either of them. Obviously both are really good looking dudes. What do you all think of this new round of casting choices?

  On 10/19/2023 at 8:32 AM, Scarloc99 said:

My big issue with Androl is how artificial his arc is, it just jars so much with the rest of the writing in the entire series. In particular, Brandon Sandersons need to create artificial tension around the dream spike, Perrin "suddenly closing it", it is just such bad writing that it sticks out a mile compared to the rest of the series. At no point did RJ need to create artificial tension in this way, the way he then also uses Androl as a get out of jail free card for other key moments.

As an aside, I also want to say please watch the words you use, the word Spastic is horrifically insulting to people, it is the reason why a charity changed its name in 1994, I have a friend who if they had read that would have been triggered because of childhood bullying. I get it is a word in the english language but it has conetations that go far beyond its actual meaning. 

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Thank you for informing me. I hope it’s clear I didn’t use that word to intentionally hurt anyone. I picked it for the mouth-feel. That being said, “fervent” would be a better choice in this context. 

I'm so lost on this conversation.

Are we trying to say Robert Jordan was a man of his age, with all the biases of men of his age, and those biases reflected in the content of his books? Well yeah, duh. I'm sure he tried his best to consult Harriet et. al. for other perspectives, but he ultimately was the author of his works. And that's fine. That's what being human is. Not perfect.

But if this has more to do with the show and people getting upset about women having more screen-time/importance than men, well... men have been in power for, like, forever, so maybe one (fantasy) show depicting the opposite (agenda or no) isn't too tough a pill to swallow?

  On 10/18/2023 at 11:40 PM, Pandemonium said:

At this point I still think we are getting max 5 seasons, so who knows.  Shadar Haran would likely be easier to represent on screen than an abstract dark one though.  

 

Although I honestly don't remember what happened to SH though.  He mind trapped and raped the forsaken, did he even appear after that?  I feel like he disappeared before the last battle

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Pretty sure Rand sees what’s left of SH’s corpse on his per-3000 year visit to the dark one. The idea being that the DO had no further use for SH. 

  On 10/18/2023 at 11:40 PM, Samt said:

Interesting take.  I wouldn't have really classified RJ's magic system as "soft" and I don't really see BS as making it harder.  He's adding more weird things that are possible with the magic and creating a sort of innovation mindset.  All the weird things you can do with a gateway or with [warder] bonding.  Feedback from unweaving is still super unpredictable.  

 

But the idea of talents and power levels already existed from RJ.  I see BS as more just exploring and showing us the dark and twisted corners that were always there in the system that RJ created.  It's given that current channelers haven't imagined even a small fraction of the things that AoL channelers could do with the one power.  BS exploring a little of that is fun.  What things does BS add that you would consider as making the system "harder"?

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I’m mostly floundering in my own poor recollection, but I think what I’m getting at is that BS made channeling more complex than RJ, I think, would have done. The only thing that comes to mind with Androl is the double-bonding, which, again, feels beyond the reach of RJs intent. I’m not surprised, but personally I find it boring when everything is as well-defined as BS has a habit of doing. Recently I read Tress of The Emerald Sea, just to give BS another go, and while I liked some of it, it felt like BS was really limiting the readers imagination by being too clear and exact with how that worlds magic system works, the spores and whatnot. This makes sense when you consider he’s tying that book into his massive universe of books and he needs all the complex (blah) magic systems to line up in a way he finds satisfying, but that was never really the point for me when I read RJs books. Just tried to get back into Stormlight Archive and I just…can’t. It’s not fun for me the same way it is for him. 

  On 10/18/2023 at 9:09 AM, king of nowhere said:

I like sanderson style better, and i like androl and his take on magic. Channelers tend to be very inefficient in their use of the power. It makes sense for aes sedai, since they never faced a challenge that would force them to innovate. But in front of total war, people adapt quickly. Even aes sedai.

 

 

We see it on a few kinswomen, but yes, not much.

By the way, i like how the show have most women fight with air. Women are supposed to be weak in fire, and while fire is easier to weaponize, it's better to take the stuff you are strong with and find ways to weaponize it than using a weak fire power

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@Samt as well, I’m just on phone so I can be bothered to try and double-quote.

I don’t have a problem with Androl being introduced and present in the BS books, but I don’t respond well to BS taking RJs “soft-magic” system and, as he is wont to do, trying to over-define it. I’m sure there’s other examples of this is the final trilogy, but Androl just comes to mind as the most grating. Androl feels like a BS character, not an RJ character. 
 

Relating it back to the thread topic, I find it kind of humorous that BS had so many critiques for S2 when he made so many Sanderson-ism mistakes in the last three books. But also, everyone’s human and I’m sure he was as emotional and spastic as any reader watching S2E8 for the first time. 

  On 10/17/2023 at 9:54 PM, Elder_Haman said:

Exactly. What I remember him saying (and could be misremembering) was that when he felt like he was getting stuck with other stuff, he could always return to Androl. It was sort of his security blanket.

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Unfortunately, that shows in the books. ☹️

Woke up this morning and realized I had swapped events from the books and the show. The first wound is caused by Ishamael, not the dagger. 
 

Mods, please feel free to bale fire this thread!

I was just re-reading a snippet of The Dragon Reborn where Rand enters the Heart of Stone. Upon a re-read I was fascinated with how eager Be'lal was to fight (and best) Rand in a sword fight, so eager it delayed him long enough for Moiraine to show up. Rand's old wound opens during the fight. After that battle, when Ba'alzamon descends from above and begins to tear Rand's soul from his body, I wonder if the only reason Rand survives this onslaught is because the True Power can't defeat an opposite evil.
 

  Quote

Ba’alzamon’s blow struck him as he leapt, struck inside him, a ripping and crumpling, tearing something loose, trying to pull a part of him away. Rand screamed. He felt as if he were collapsing like an empty sack, as if he were being turned inside out. The pain in his side, the wound taken at Falme, was almost welcome, something to hang on to, a reminder of life. His hand closed convulsively. On Callandor’s hilt.

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On the topic of Elayne healing Rand instead of Nynaeve doing it, I suspect the writers will reference this scene later in the series as forming a "healing-bond" between Elayne and Rand, as was the case in the books whenever someone was healed by another. In addition, from a visual perspective, she starts out with a small amount of healing weaves, and, realizing it isn't enough, amplifies the weaves in some way that may prove to be important later.

P.S. Nynaeve seems more surprised than impressed here.

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I've been wondering if Egwene used Renna to channel herself onto the hook, bypassing the issue of doing it herself?

There's something funky with how the one power is being shown here too. We can see Egwene's weave's by her body, but not by Renna. Also, she seems to be concentrating more than she would be if she were channeling the weave herself.

Edit: On top of that, she is using her hand to guide the weave. A very anti-Egwene thing, as we have seen be re-enforced this season.

  On 10/9/2023 at 9:58 PM, Scarloc99 said:

How do you want your TV to be made? It needs to be paid for and streamers have demonstrated that subscriptions alone can’t pay the bills and keep the lights on. Let alone pay for quality tv. Disney plus is generating immense losses, Netflix is making money but not as much as it should be, and who knows what the Amazon model is. 

 

Linear cable tv paid for big budget tv through selling tv ads on top of the subscription you paid to watch. Why should streamers be different? 

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My stance is that if I can’t avoid ads, either by

a) paying directly for a service, like Prime (used to be) or,

b) other means…

then I won’t partake in the service. It’s not worth the brainwashing to me. 

I won't be subjected to ads. I avoid them like the plague. It's sad to see that people who already pay so much for Prime get squeezed even more. As @Mirefox said, I believe this will jeopardize the quality of the show, even if it adds to the production budget.

  On 10/6/2023 at 1:38 AM, SinisterDeath said:

I actually loved how Rand just ganked Turak. 

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I'm so glad I didn't have to watch Turak fight with those ridiculous nails.

Great execution up until the moment Mat almost executed Rand. Is there seriously nothing beefier Ishamael could have thrown at Egwene than fire darts?!