6 minutes ago, themann1086 said:

I must regretfully inform you that this is also a kink

 I mean, I bet trollocs are someones kink... ? The slope be slippery!

But can we all agree that spanking grown women is a very common kink, and one that probably would feel really off to most viewers in tone? I don't want them to tone to black, cause I think the reaction to the punishment is a very big moment for Egwene. How she goes from actually being soft, to becoming really freaking strong. So strong, in fact, that not even torture will crack her. I do not think spanking will convey this. 

33 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

yeah, the children of the light would never do anything impractical. like, they absolutely would not dress their sentries in revealing colors and have them stomp around and shout regularly to declare to every wannabe spy their exact location, right??

if they can do that, they can always march around in full armor.

 

but ok, i can accept that maybe it's a leather harness. if you accept that it can be a breastplate.

we need to see more to know if the whitecloacks wear armor, or whatever

Haha, it's a deal ?

9 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

to me, it's perfectly clear they are all wearing breastplates, not just the thin pieces on the left arm. maybe not exactly the armor how was described in the books, but clearly a full armor. the rigid shapes of the shoulders can't be explained in any other way.

 

but apparently other people don't see it, so perhaps you guys who don't see the armor can instead explain to me why they have those rigid shapes around their shoulders and what they are if not some kind of breastplate.

no sarcasm meant, i'm apparently alone in this interpretation and i may be wrong

I think it is a leather harness thingy that holds the shoulder piece that you see the shape of. I do not think it is a breastplate. It would also be incredible impractical  and hot - they would have to wear full clothing, plate and the their white garbs on top of that. With the fabric holding the plate in place while riding, the risk of chafing gets bigger. 

I think and hope that these are their every day clothing, and then they have plate for when they are expecting battle. No one rides around all day in full plate, that would NOT be fun. 

5 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Change butt slapping to back whipping. More painful and leaves possibly permanent marks depending what is used as a tool.

Up until Egwene is tortured in the later books, more or less all corporal punishment can be exchanged for hard and demeaning work, with no changes to the feel of the story. Both for the Aiel and the White Tower. In the WT, it can be to scrub toilets, to carry water or other very physical work. That way, being sent to Sheriam would still feel like a punishment to fear. For the Aiel, we already have the really creative meaningless punishments, like digging a hole and filling it in again, over and over. Imo that would do for much better TV than spanking. If you really want corporal punishment in the White Tower, slapping someone's fingers with a ruler would work too. 

When it comes to Egwene in the later books, I think whipping could be fitting. It is supposed to be over the top and something that appalls a lot of the other Aes Sedai. 

One thing that I think is important to keep in mind is that updating something to modern sensibilities does not have to actually change any of the content. 

I think that for example Downton Abbey did this well with the Thomas character, who is gay. More or less everyone else in the show thinks that somehow makes him less, or at least that is is distasteful, cause sadly that is how gay people were seen back then. There is more or less no dialogue connected to his sexuality that is positive, and he is initially only shown as mean, untrustworthy and  shrewd. No actions or lines comes off as being straight from the 21st century.  But, by showing Thomas internal struggle and pain, we also realize how extremely hard this must be for him. And we also come to sympathize with him after realizing that he is the way he is because how hard life has been on him. 

If this was NOT updated for modern sensibilities, we would have made due with all of the main characters being mean to Thomas, and that would have been it. By letting Thomas reactions show the negative effect of discrimination and hate, we get a more full picture, without turning it into a sermon of gay rights. 

11 hours ago, Rose said:

 

That makes sense. I could see them playing up Lan's relationship with Agelmar and merging him with Bukama or something like that.

 

It could be that this isn't the only means of showing the warder bond, so it's okay that it comes later because we have other examples before. But they put the most spectacular one in the trailer.

The good thing with combining Agelmar and Bukama would be that it would give the showrunners a better way of showing of Lan's backstory, without it just coming of as exposition. And it would also narrow down the number of named characters, something we know that they absolutely have to do for the series to make sense to the average viewer.  

10 hours ago, Beidomon said:

I think you’re gonna really like Rafe’s take on WOT. Happy for you. 

As will I, then. Cause I 100% agree with everything that @SinisterDeath wrote. I am sorry that you are not getting the wheel of time you want, but maybe it is time for you to understand that you are a minority, even among fans? You write "woke" a lot, but most of the things you are upset over just sounds like common sense to me. 

You say that you do not think that things should change to fit an agenda, and I agree with this to some extent. But look at it this way: Say that you are re-adapting Gone with the wind. It would be really weird to cast black actors as Scarlet, Brent or Stuart, because that would make a lot of the points of the movies moot. HOWEVER, when writing the role for Mammy, you would not have to write her as a black stereotype, cause frankly, we know better now.

In the same way, I would be really disappointed if some or RJs very stale gender dynamics were to make it on the show. I do think that men and women are different, and while I am a strong believer in LGBTQ rights, I also think that 99% of all people have a biological sex that partly defines them. I am so sick and tired of the really sad and tired writing of women in fantasy and sci fi (the Expanse being a massive exception, that is writing women done right!). I have 0 interest in the spankings and all the descriptions of bosoms and such. I hope there is sex, but not through the male gaze. I also reject that "strong women" are strong because they more or less behave like men with boobs and a good hair style . This is why I am not keen on them making Min a soldier - the reason she is my fav character is that she is so strong why being the main character who has the least power. All of her friends could crush her like a fly, and she still holds her own.

1 hour ago, JJLXL said:

So...just shy of an hour?  ?

Haha indeed! Just wanted to get a bit more specific, but I guess I overdid it ?

What happens to a child that never gets told "No"? How will you grow if you are never challenged? 

It is very easy to think that we know what is good and evil, but the problem is seeing how our actions affects others further down the line. You could never be good at something, cause that would mean that someone else might become sad about not being as good as you. There are very few actions that could be seen as good from all angles. It also means that you have to bring morality to the goodness: Is the goal to keep to some set commandments (like in Christianity) or to minimize sadness/maximize happiness for everyone? Those too are far from one and the same. 

I live a life of relative privilege, like more or less all on you on this forum do (having enough to have the means and the time to write on a forum proves this). Still, I think all of us has had (or have) hardship and sadness in our lives that at times felt unsurmountable. Suffering is always relative, and no one should judge anyone else on this. But I still would not want to be without any of the suffering I have felt in my life. It has made me who I am and I am better for it. As cliché as it sounds. I also have friends who has been through absolute hell in their childhood, and I bet they would not make the same decision. It has however inspired my friend to do an amazing amount of good towards other unfortunate children. 

Think of the happiest moments of your life. Most of them happened after you achieved something that was hard for you. Be it childbirth, overcoming something, learning something or finding love. I would not want to go through life just getting participation awards. 

On 10/24/2021 at 12:23 AM, Wolfbrother31 said:

A silly example:

Let's say you're from Minnesota (like me) and you know cold - I mean really cold... But you go and live with a tribe in the Amazon. 

 

You could describe to them what 30 below was like and they could understand though they've never experienced cold. And though "cold" doesn't exist for them...it exists. 

But then let's say the planet heats up and it's 100 degrees all the time everywhere...

The Heat exists though the cold doesn't. But if I were still around - I would know it's bloody flaming hot ?

You are contradicting yourself. You only know it is hot because you know what cold is. It is only hot if it is colder someplace as. Otherwise it just...is. 

On 9/21/2021 at 7:39 PM, JJLXL said:

Would love to see 1.5 hours.  More likely just shy of an hour each.  Gonna say 47 minute average.

We know for a fact that the first 2 episodes will be 50-55 min long. The screening that will be on Stockholm film festival for the first 2 episodes will be 111 min total. They probably will have cut out any "previously on" and intro from episode 2, so 50-55 actual runtime per episodes seems likely. 

What I really hope is that we get some quality youtube content that discusses the show. There are already some pretty good ones, but I am talking the stuff that has a more unique format and will appeal to the broader masses, with high production value of its own. Think Gay of Thrones (with Jonathan van Ness, who became a part of the new Fab5 afterwards) or Alt Shift X. Neither are for everyone, but both have a very distinct voice.

Gay of Thrones had over 1 m views on most of the later episodes and  Alt Shift X has several million hits on a few of its episodes. 

21 hours ago, Rose said:

 

Every time this topic comes up I have to hold myself back from typing an essay on racial diversity in history. That would be off-topic for this thread though so I'll continue holding back ??

I mean, please do! But as a thread of it's own. I would love to read it ? Sounds super interesting. 

https://www.stockholmfilmfestival.se/sv/program/2021/festival#15511

As the title says - the first 2 episodes will be screened, in a film theater no less, on the 17th of November. I frequently work in Stockholm, I will REALLY try to book a meeting with someone on the day. 

I watched all of GOT and was a big fan up until season 5 (like most everyone else). I have been looking forward to the prequel, cause I thought it would bring a new take on a good series. I did not even finish watching the GOT teaser. Even those 90 seconds were 30 too many for me. I just saw it and thought "Oh, this again". Also, the white dreadlocks look like cheap sci fi wigs from 20 years ago. 

I think that WOT is better because it is vibrant and shows both happy times and dark times. Because WOT is not GOT, and that is that. I am very happy that it is not going grimdark and trying to be GOT, even though that vibrancy is giving some people YA vibes. 

On 10/5/2021 at 3:29 PM, SinisterDeath said:

It's interesting that the first Queen of Andor was a direct descendent of Artur Hawking and looked similar to "Ath'an Miere". Elayne & her family, look more like the original Manetheran royalty.

  

 For sure. Not far fetched that Hawkwing himself was black, then. However, it holds no importance to the story, seeing as race is not a factor in Randland. So both Hawkwing and Tuon could have any race, but Tuon should look like it is possible that she is a descendant of the former. As in, she could not be nordic blonde if he is sub Sahara black, seeing as blonde is a recessive gene.

That all being said, I am not trying to white wash WOT, not in the slightest. I think it is fantastic that they have gone against peoples expectations of an all white cast with a token black guy. I just hope that they stick to the look of the characters in the book in the very very few instances where it actually MATTERS (see my super short list above) ?  I guess I should add "Tuon looking like she is related to Arthur Hawkwing" to that list. 

1 hour ago, DaddyFinn said:

I don't remember her color being that important. ? Can you specify?

Agree. She is black, but it holds no importance that I can remember. Or is she mistaken for atha'an miere at some point that I have forgotten? Otherwise they could just as well cast a white actress for that part, and she would be the same. Seanchan seems just as diverse and non-racist as the Westlands. 

For fun, when does appearance in the books REALLY make a difference? As in, when is it important to the story, and if you take it out, the story changes? The only cases I can think of is: 

- Rand has to look different from the other people in Emonds Field. 

- Min has to look boyish (so the whole Elmindreda cover works out).

- Aiel has to look more homogenous than most other people. And they have to look like Rand (so I guess we are sticking with tall and red hair). 

- Perrin has to look like a blacksmith (broad shoulders and large stature). 

- Lanfear has to be beautiful.

And very minor - Ilyena should be blonde, because of the "sunhair" thing, and because of that Elayne should be blonde as well, because she reminds LTT of Ilyena, looks wise. Not super important though.

Do you have any additional ones? Remember that it actually has to have proper importance, I can't for example think of any situation in the books that would have ended differently if Moiraine had been tall. 

12 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Not in the states it hasn't...

Sorry, was supposed to say "just NOT in the states". Those silly negations. 

16 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

How is 'Dune' doing well?  It hasn't been released yet.  Or are you talking about buzz?  In which case, to your point, who cares?  There have been movies with great buzz that flopped horribly and vice versa - so we will see.

 

And yes, several parallels between Dune and WoT.  I've read the original Dune almost as many times as I have EotW.  Something about low tech desert warriors...

It has been released, just in the states. I saw it yesterday! It has been doing really well in post-pandemic figures in countries where it has opened.