You’re never able to express yourself clearly in your dreams? Why do you associate the subconscious with a lack of lucidity? Rand’s dreams are still just dreams. They are the product of his subconscious. It couldn’t be more obvious that this is the case. Just look at how the locations of his dreams change based on his circumstances. Did he consciously choose those locations?

What is your point? No one is arguing that he was confused or not lucid. That doesn’t mean that his dream actions are a product of conscious choice. He’s dreaming. Lanfear is inserting herself into those dreams and taking advantage of Rand’s subconscious vulnerability. This is so obvious that I can’t believe it’s even a discussion.

Your argument doesn’t make sense. Again, just because T’a’R exists doesn’t mean that everyone has full agency in their dreams. The fact that you remember who and what you dreamed about doesn’t make it less of a dream. It is still an expression of the subconscious. At least until Rand learns the Dream. Rand is not “cheating” on anyone, in any way, at any point in the series.

But he doesn’t outside of the dream.

This doesn’t mean he was cheating on Egwene.

Correct. Can he expel her? Correct. Is this his conscious self? Or his subconscious self? Does the fact that he remembers the dream mean he was able to exercise control while inside it? To state it a different way, what evidence is there that Rand knows how to exercise control within the dream? You’re joking, right? Their entire relationship consists of Lanfear manipulating him. Nor does it show that he consciously chose to do sexy time with Lanfear in the dream. How else do you manipulate someone?

Does he have any choice in the matter?

Like at the beginning of tDR? In what way? Sure she's helping him. But only so he will turn to the dark. Does that make her an ally? Or a viper? Isn't that an interesting question? I'm sorry, but who else has an interest in Rand turning to the Dark? Ishamael? The Forsaken? No. No. No. No. Lanfear cares only for herself. Rand/LTT is secondary to her desire for power. You're certainly right that some of Rand's arc has changed. But you're all twisted up about Lanfear in the show. It's been done perfectly because - as I have said many, many, many times on these forums - during the Last Battle, you want the audience not knowing whether Rand will choose her (or whether she will choose Rand). That's where the dramatic tension lies.

I knew what you meant!!!

This is a good take.

Exactly. For all intents and purposes, their relationship ended on the hillside in S1E1. The romance they have had in the show is clearly the last twitches of a dying relationship. And I think they managed to do it in a way that made sense and preserves the idea that they will always love each other despite not being in love with each other.

So Rand is responsible for what happens in his dreams even though Lanfear is uninvited and actively manipulating Rand’s subconscious? Yeah, no. Sorry. You’re welcome to your opinion, but I find your argument entirely unconvincing.

How does that make their interactions in Rand’s dreams consensual?

The fact that T’a’R exists doesn’t change the nature of normal dreams. That is why it is dangerous for people to cross there from their own dreams. Lanfear uses her abilities to enter Rand’s mundane dreams in the same way Egwene did to Perrin and Mat and Elayne. Once in his dreams, Lanfear uses his own subconscious mind to her advantage. It’s in no way a consensual encounter. Does Egwene allow Lanfear to abuse her? Of course not. Same analysis here.

Rand has no training in the dream. His dreams are simply dreams. It is Rand’s subconscious that is being manipulated. Dreaming about cheating on your spouse is not the same as cheating on your spouse.

He wasn’t cheating on Egwene at any point in the show. Since he wasn’t cheating, he should not be morally judged.

All of them.

No. No. No. Lanfear was the catalyst for the final split. But their separation due to different destinies was established in the very first episode.

Hard disagree.

Never say the boy lacks game.

Obviously, he's not in the same *emotional* place in terms of the specific details of his relationships with any of those characters. But he is in the same *physical* place related to those characters and has planted seeds of a relationship with each. Rand is likely to start a relationship with Avi next season. At this point, you're right - she looks at him was if she is mostly annoyed or bored. When she starts developing feelings, I suspect we will see more of the looks that you describe. We have already seen hints of her admiration for him. I bet you anything we get the igloo scene at which point *some* of the complications regarding Avi's feelings about Elayne will become important. For me, his romantic journey in the show is perfectly fine. He struggled letting go of his first love (and she struggled letting go of him), even though they both knew, deep down, that it wasn't right. Then, a young, naive shepherd boy in the big city for the first time, alone and bereft, he is seduced by an older woman who shows him things he hadn't experienced before. She turned out to be crazy, but it sure is hard to let go of that 'I can fix her' feeling - especially when you're the Dragon Reborn! And that's it. Now, for the first time, Rand is free of entanglements. He and Egwene have recognized the futility of their relationship (in a pretty mature and not terribly dramatic way). At the same time, he's come to terms with his naivete when it comes to Lanfear. He has (as is thematically appropriate for the season) come into his own power. He's no longer the boy bringing baskets of berries. There's nothing wrong with this arc and certainly nothing about Rand's romances has been irrevocably broken. (Though I doubt we see anything between Rand and Min in the show.)

This is silly. Rand wasn’t two timing Egwene at any point. Rand was “dead” when he met “Selene”. No cheating there. By the time we make it to S3, all of their interactions are in the dream. That literally happens in the show. Mo put a big dome over Alcair Dahl. She may have been intending to go for Egwene. Mo was in the way. And it wasn’t as if Lanfear had no beef with Moiraine. How? He’s free now. He’s with Avi (who has been slowly gaining respect for him) in the waste now. And he has already developed a nice relationship with Elayne. With the exception of Min, Rand is exactly where he was in the books - romantically speaking. With the caveat that he and Elayne haven’t made out.

And they are, of course, trained to believe that what the Sitters say is true and correct.

This is what you said. Feels like you’re walking it back now?

You’re missing the point. It’s not about “point of view”. It’s about making sure that the series doesn’t show institutions as monolithic forces for good or evil.