It’s very hard to judge things in a vacuum. For instance, I could see a reworking of the plot where Callandor is exchanged for the Bowl of the Winds and is found by Nyn and Elayne. This would be a huge change from the books and I could very easily find that it doesn’t work at all. On the other hand, it could be written very well and work flawlessly. My perception of whether it was still the “Wheel of Time” would depend entirely on the execution.

I don’t really put much stock into “people said”, so I’ll just recap my own thoughts and feelings: (1) S1E8 was bad. (Less so on the 2nd and 3rd watches, but still bad.) I decided to overlook its flaws because of the challenges presented by COVID and the departure of Barney Harris. (2) I never thought there would be a battle in the sky and was unconcerned about it from the beginning. In fact, I was a little surprised they kept Falme at all. I expected them to ditch it altogether or combine it with the attack on the Stone. (3) I really liked S2. I enjoyed the changes and the characters and felt the writing was much improved. (4) I mostly liked S2E8. Egwene getting free of the collar wasn’t great (I wish they would have let Elayne and Nyn participate), and I thought some of it was a but cheesy, but overall I felt it was a solid episode. (5) I’m not worried at all about Rand’s development. They slowed some stuff down. But I’m confident that we will get to see him doing more training, having more interactions with Mat and Moiraine and Lan in S3. I assume you’re referring to Egwene. But you get so much wrong here. Egwene is not the best healer in the books or the show: that honor falls to Nyn. She didn’t really stall Ishy at all. She was his cat’s paw. Ishy used her to give the illusion that he was trying to accomplish something when he was really just trying to trick Rand again.

I don't see this as quite the dire situation that you do. He has human connections in the show - we know Mat, Egwene and Perrin are all important to him. We know Moiraine is important. He didn't "fall victim" to Ishy's scheme in Season 1, he won the necessary battle by refusing Ishy's offer of his version of paradise (doing so precisely because of one of those human connections). They have greatly slowed Rand's growth in the show (avoiding the problem where he completely disappears for most of an entire book). But emotionally, he is right where he should be at this point. Unsure of himself, unsure of his powers, distrustful of everyone around him (for some reasons which are legitimate and others which are not). He has yet to embrace himself as the Dragon, but is beginning to realize that he can't hide from his destiny. In the books, he decides to take Callandor to prove the prophecies true or false and in so doing, he comes to truly accept himself as the Dragon. We have yet to see how the show will handle this. One of the reasons I'm so excited for Season 3!!

Obviously. If you want the books, you're gonna have to read the books. There's no way any series (even an animated one that some people are clamoring for) can adapt the entire saga without massive condensing and editing. Again, I disagree strongly. I think the casting (and by extension, the acting) is the strongest part of the series thus far. The writing has been the weakest. Highly doubt this, since they have already mentioned "the Daughter of the Nine Moons" in the show.

It would be unfilmable as written. But I would be very interested in seeing someone's "more accurate" treatment. I think it could be made to hew closer to the original, but I don't know that the finished product would be as engaging. I certainly think the series would have been better served if the writers had not tried to play "Who is the Dragon" in S1. I know what they were going for, but it was never going to work. Still, S2 was a huge improvement.

Why would you hope people would not listen to her narration if you’re a “big fan”?

Is that a bad thing? Books are ALWAYS better than their film versions. So what difference does it make what the motivation for picking up the books might be? This is the silliest kind of hyperbole, by the way. There are far more than “vague similarities” between the two. I have a hard time taking anybody seriously when they resort to these types of overwrought dramatics.

I'm still trying to understand exactly which aspects of the books were "shattered" or "completely destroyed". I understand that some of the changes to particular backstories change characters in ways people could find unlikable. But I see no changes that "break" or "shatter" or "obliterate" the books.

Well said!

Hard disagree.

Okay. I get that’s your opinion. I don’t share the opinion that Perrin is a ‘useless mopy sad sack’ in the show. So there’s nothing else to talk about, I guess. He has loved Egwene since birth. Like a sister. He has never been in love with her.

Your point is what? He keeps them moving. He keeps Egwene safe. He knows how his friend thinks and makes sure Egwene goes to the Tower to find Rand. I can’t understand how this is so bothersome.

Just gonna have to disagree. He’s not exactly like book Perrin, but he has the same core qualities. He acts the way book Perrin would if book Perrin had killed his wife on winter night.

He was doggedly protective of Egwene in the books as well. He is determined to find Rand because Rand is his friend. It had nothing to do with Egwene. What Perrin saw within Machin Shin was not real, but a manifestation of his inner insecurities. The “love triangle” was not actually a thing, but Nynaeve misreading the entire situation. I agree that it didn’t land quite right. But once again, you’re not making the case for Perrin being somehow “destroyed” by the show.

But you told me the important characteristics Perrin has in the books are that he is staunch, forthright and determined. I gave you examples of him being exactly that in the show. So there is similarity between Perrin in the show and Perrin in the books. You find him unlikeable, that’s fine. But you haven’t really made the case that he’s different from the books (other than the obvious change to his origin story.)

I’m sorry it hasn’t worked for you so far. Maybe the challenges of writing season 3 and beyond will be too much, but so far I’m quite enjoying it. I’m excited to see what happens.

I don’t follow. He was dogged in defense of Egwene. Protective of her with everyone they encountered. Determined to find Rand. Exactly the qualities you described.

Forthright: characterized by directness in manner or speech; without subtlety or evasion. That aptly describes Perrin in the show. Staunch: loyal and committed in attitude. Again, aptly describes Perrin in the show. Determined: processing or displaying resolve. Once again, apt. Can you please explain where Perrin in the tv show fails to display these qualities?

It isn’t later on. And it isn’t exclusively to do with his abilities as a wolfbrother. Perrin’s core trait is his fear of hurting others because he is big and strong and feels like a bull in a china shop. That’s awfully hard to put on screen. So they changed it and made it more visceral. I didn’t love it, but it made the point: Perrin is overly cautious about hurting people because he’s afraid to hurt someone he loves. This is only going to get worse as he gets more wolfish - just like in the books.

No one said otherwise. Nor have I ever felt the need to slap a fictional character.

Yep. I do remember that. Giving him a slightly different backstory that serves to externalize his fear of harming others didn’t ruin his character for me. I’m sorry it did for you.

He’s forthright, staunch and determined in the show. He also, somewhat famously, considers himself to be a clumsy lummox in the books.

As I said, I disagree entirely. It is still the Wheel of Time, adapted for television.

I find Perrin very true to his book personality. Mat is certainly further away from where he is in the books but, (a) he hasn’t had much screen time; and (b) Mat wasn’t very well formed by this point in the books either.

No one was “destroyed”. Characters have been altered, some more than others obviously. It remains to be seen whether the more controversial changes will be paid off. I can certainly understand why people would dislike some of the changes. But then again, simply not watching is an option if you find the changes too dramatic.