16 hours ago, Ekoile said:

Regarding the Breaking, it's like Rand said in episode 8, "it's like puzzle pieces". We are only being given a few pieces at a time, and how, and in what order we get those pieces matters. That is to say, assuming the  conversation, from the flashback referenced at the start of this thread, refers to some kind of preemptive sealing away of the Dark One before the War of Power, while reasonable in isolation I believe to be incorrect. I have evidence.

 

It absolutely is. If we're talking foreshadowing, we also need to address the opening. I believe this is the correct place for this. I am surprised some one else hasn't brought this up. It's in 7 of the 8 episodes. These screen captures are from a youtube video of the opening.

First, note the threads in both the foreground and background, especially going off into the infinite distance. We are looking at The Wheel, in the process of weaving the Age Lace. We are seeing the very fabric of the pattern. Almost after this establishing shot, we get this roughly 5 second sequence.

Here, please note the surface along the bottom of the images. Threads, the Pattern. Note the slight wave, or ripple in the early images, that becomes flat again. 

 

A burst of light, or something, is coming through. Almost as if it were boring a hole. 

 

Also note, what to my eyes appears to be a female humanoid shape, with longish hair and a dress that are both blown back by the disruption. 

 

We are witnessing an event. In the opening credits of season 1.

Wow... Totally awesome post!

Was Rand duped by Ishamael to break one of the seals?...

Is Moiraine stilled, or just shielded?

21 minutes ago, templar7 said:

Sorry, I misunderstood what you meant. You were referring to my post topic. My bad....

So I overlaid  the two images in photoshop as best I could (they're slightly different angles), and there is definitely allot of change other than just vegetation. The largest buildings seem to be thinner shattered husks and the mountain range in the background seems to be much higher.

On 12/29/2021 at 12:24 PM, Raezold said:

 

I'm not referring to the episode 8 flashback obviously.

Sorry, I misunderstood what you meant. You were referring to my post topic. My bad....

So I overlaid  the two images in photoshop as best I could (they're slightly different angles), and there is definitely allot of change other than just vegetation. The largest buildings seem to be thinner shattered husks and the mountain range in the background seems to be much higher.

On 12/27/2021 at 9:59 AM, Raezold said:

Noticed.

So I guess the Breaking wasn't that bad after all. Nothing happened, that's just 3k years of vegetation doing its work.

This was before the breaking..

1 hour ago, SingleMort said:

I agree it was some nice foreshadowing but I also seem to remember that a world war was going on at this point, which had been raging for many years. That all looks a very peaceful place to be in a world where such a terrible conflict is going on, and IMO because of that it also took away that stakes of the conversation that LTT had and made it seem far more causal for something that would literally lead to the breaking of the world. Not that I'm blaming the cool shot for that it's a very nice depiction of the second age but possibly not in entirely the right context.

Ya, me too. I thought the scene itself was way too anticlimactic. 

I mean, one could say that during the last two world wars there were certainly places of safety, great cities that we're never touched by the atrocities. 

But... this was supposed to be the height of the war of the Shadow when the forces of light were pushed to the brink... So I must agree. I just thought it was cool seeing the same place in a different age.

Foreshadowing is so amazing when its done right. Did anyone else notice that this reveal from the opening of episode 8 was in fact the same valley from the beginning  of episode 1? Did anyone pick up on anything else?

Did anyone else notice that this reveal from the opening of episode 8 was in fact the same valley from the beginning  of episode 1?

On 12/16/2021 at 5:46 AM, LordyLord said:

Please read my initial comment 

https://dragonmount.com/forums/topic/110618-how-did-the-show-hold-up-for-you/?do=findComment&comment=4005531

Yup. Not well enough the first time

though. Sorry about that.

On 12/15/2021 at 11:05 PM, chri5 said:

That was his name!  Shaidar Haran.

 

Betrayer of Hope might be my favorite Forsaken nickname.

Right?? It a badass handle.

On 12/16/2021 at 3:48 PM, RhienneAgain said:

I'm sorry, I'm really confused by your response to my post.  What am I struggling to wrap my head around..?  What do you want me to get over..?  Sorry, genuinely lost here!

Ya.. My bad. That totally came out wrong. No offense to you intended. I was commenting on the hyper critical readers that can't imagine any deviation from the page being necessary. 

I am in agreement with your comment. I didn't realize it came off like that.  

7 hours ago, TheChief said:

FWIW I watched a great Youtube video the other day that explains how TV adaption is done. It is specific to the Wheel of Time. It explains what the writers are likely doing, and why they are making certain decisions. It ends on a note of "you may disagree, but this is the rationale". For anyone either okay with / upset about the changes, it's informative. I really enjoyed learning about this process myself.

 

The channel is "A Critical Dragon" and the vid is called "The Wheel of Time TV adaption".

Thanks for this, great video!

On 12/14/2021 at 12:28 AM, chri5 said:

The huge Fade at Shayol Ghul

Yup, me too. #1 Shaidar Harran. Did I spell that right?

                        #2 Betrayer of hope

                         #3 Verin

On 11/19/2021 at 6:56 PM, king of nowhere said:

It's good.

 

it's all a problem of expectations. as sanderson said through hoid, "give me an audience waiting to be entertained but expecting nothing special, to them i will be a king"

our own expectations were hyperinflated, that's all that's stopping us from really appreciating this show

Exactly! Perfectly put.

17 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

22 minutes ago, templar7 said:

I cant believe you're still bothering with it. If you hate it that much, why still watch it?

I'm not.

Why are telling people to "get over it?" Or is this your clever attempt to convince people to watch the show?

Maybe you should accept the fact that there are plenty of book fans that won't "get over it."

This isn't an echo chamber where everyone will simply agree...with you.

10 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

You have to be joking.

They tried selling this as an "adaptation" because of a built in fanbase they wanted. Had Rafe stated that he'd replace scenes from the book and make up useless time-wasting irrelevancies I dare say some here wouldn't have even bothered with it...certainly there'd be less defending it.

I cant believe you're still bothering with it. If you hate it that much, why still watch it?

5 minutes ago, RhienneAgain said:

I guess it comes down to whether the showrunners/writers etc. have genuinely made changes for logical reasons purely to tell the story of WoT in the time they have available, or if the changes are due to other reasons (artistic vision, wanting to feature top billed actors, modern social norms, etc.). I think that's where the room for debate and discussion comes in as no one can say for certain and people have different views on whether the story should be changed for other reasons.

I can't believe how hard this is for some folks to wrap their head around. I respect the passion for the books. I'm one of you! Ive read them 6 times, now on my 7th.. I had a conversation with the author himself about hidden story points that very few people would even know were there.  I get it!  its hard to re-imagine something so ingrained in us... but seriously... Get over it!!

3 hours ago, LordyLord said:

Its not an enahancement to the Nyaneve/Lan/Morainne plotline.

 

If Nynave, Lan and Morainne didnt get to do the Whitecloak rescue, thn the plot needed  them to do someting as equally epic and more importantly meaningful to plot of the Season itself

??What?? "something as equally epic and more importantly meaningful to plot of the Season itself" Did you miss episode 4? 

4 hours ago, Masha said:

The rule of changing a Plotline from the books is that the change must make the Plotline Better not worse in the Tv show

The changing of of anything is NOT done to make the plot better. lol.

It's done to make the story work in a totally different medium without any prior knowledge of the books. A film school drop out could tell you this. This obsession and hatred over the changes from book to screen is ridiculous. Even if it did work, why would you want the exact same, page for page copy? I love not knowing what may happen next! Its like getting to experience it for the first time all over again.

4 hours ago, Masha said:

My personal opinion, they should have removed Stepan suicide/Tower subplot and just had him go from calm warrior trying to keep casualties to minimum to raging maniac,  upon Kerene's death, who run into swords and died trying to kill as many as he could. And I would have thrown in one of Alanna's warders as a casualty and have her deal with his loss in the next episode to explain Warder bond and a loss of it on both Warders and Aes Sedai. Remove Lan wailing scene!!

This one here is a great example: Having Stepin just go berserk might make sense to us readers who have 1000s of pages of detail under our belts, sure. But to a newbie, this would only make Warders come off as automaton savages. books of this depth cannot be translated exactly alike from page to screen.

20 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

Completely erase ep. 4-6 and follow the actual book plot instead of doing fan-fiction? This is my humble opinion of course.

On this point, I dont see how the actual plot is any different at all. Its condensed and rearranged and certainly added to, but the resulting position is pretty much the same. It also established Nynaeve's power, her thing with Lan, the effects of the bond and Logain's storyline inside three episodes.

30 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

"who the Dragon (he/she/it/they) is (are)" is on top of my list of what I would change.

I get your point on this one, but its just a necessary adjustment to add more character engagement in the absence of internal dialogue for those who haven't read the books.

35 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

trust the characters from the book and don't completely change their background/behaviour...what they did to Mat is beyond belief.

I struggled with this one too, and I still do to some extent. I dont think they wanted Mat as plucky as he is in the books, probably due to the aging up of the characters, and I do think it will serve his future progression into the gambler/reluctant hero more realistically. I'm more unhappy with how his parents are portrayed as opposed to him. But I get where you are coming from.

1 hour ago, fra85uk said:

we will never have the proof that a closer adaptation would have been better, because we will not have any. 

Give me 2 examples of a "closer adaptation" that would improve the show so far?

I was skeptical to the point of serious concern myself... on many points leading up to the premiere. 

I for one absolutely love the show in almost every way!

The nitpicking by fellow readers, for the most part, is simply a lack of understanding of the medium of film and the challenges involved in adapting books to screen... most of the changes so far are more than logical when you realize that, to be successful, the story needs to be understood by millions of people who dont share our detailed knowledge of the books. For example: if Rand was known to be the Dragon from the outset, there would be an automatic lack of importance of the other cast. making it mysterious helps the narrative by generating more overall character interest. Or if Lan was written as in the books, no inner monologue would bring him off like wooden meathead.

I can go on, but I digress...

I began these books more than 25 years ago, and after at least 6 full rereads, consider myself a hardcore book fan. Having also had both personal and public converse with Robert Jordan himself, I'm confident he would love the show as much as I do. Is it perfect? No. but its pretty damn good!

2 minutes ago, Deviations said:

This is going to be very hard for me.  I wanted to see Jordan's story, not someone else's take as twisted as the neverborn.

I totally understand how you feel on this, but it's no less Jordan's story really. It's just a different turning if the wheel. I myself was worried that the show would mirror the books too much. Fantasy on screen is a tough sell when balancing realisim and wonder. 

I really don't think they had much choice but to go darker. 

I love the books too, but if they cast 16 year olds and capped the lexicon at Blood and ashes it would just come off like Narnia or Disney/Esq. IMO anyway. But I totally respect your opinion.

17 hours ago, TheMountain said:

I basically took that as "well, we're not really interested in following the book descriptions, so I'm just gonna let them do their own thing."

18 hours ago, Ralph said:

every piece of production design from shoes to swords to the White Tower itself begins with pages of quotes from the books about that place/thing… The designer then takes it from there...

Sounds pretty page driven to me

After hot and cold opinions on the Casting and production;  I have found the void... My re-read has actually helped me to re-envision characters and such! But the kicker was the NYCC panel interview. The passion from Zoe Robins, when talking about her role as our beloved Wisdom, floored me!  In fact one of my early concerns about the show was her. I just couldn't see Nynaeve there. I must eat my words and thank the light for such a perfect fit. I dont need to see her performance first.