Gawyn and Galad's contributions could easily be blended together. Galad has far more important plot points going forward than his brother. Really, other than giving Egween a love interest, Gawyni is mostly just whiney. In fact, I think Egween's story is plenty strong on its own and would be better off solo.

8 hours ago, Saine said:

Great question.  I want the Throne room scene with Queen Morgase.  When they all tense....

100% I hope Morgase is represented fully and with the attention to detail needed for the later narrative. Especially in light of Perrin's future trial.... Nice comment! I forgot about how important she is to the plot of so many characters.

On 2/11/2021 at 4:00 PM, SinisterDeath said:

In the context of WoT, being a channeler is part of one's "identity" as well. 

Remember you said

The only reason I brought up being the "single" gay man in 1830s small town America, is because it's probably the closest analogue we have. There wasn't really a "group" or shared "culture", but they are definitely prosecuted.

Of course not, magic isn't real. I was talking about society prosecuting a group of people for simply existing. Being Gay in small town 1830 America may not have meant an instant death sentence, but you aren't exactly going to be telling everyone you know for fear of your own safety. Sound familiar?

 

Well, Sharan's & Seanchan have a pretty shitty way of dealing with it. One outright murders you, the other forces you into captivity as breeding stock before sacrificing you to a giant worm. (or something like that)

Aiel have probably the most Merciful, if it wasn't for the fact that even that got twisted.

 

What could they have done? Could have exiled them to the Steadings before they got to addicted to the OP.

 

 

Every one knows male channelers are an abhorrent thing of the Shadow that are a threat. So if you find out you are one, all your own hatred towards that group is now reflected inward. You know what happens if you tell anyone. 

Take Damer Flinn as an example. He's entirely too old to be a "wilder", and start channeling uncontrollably and die. Yet, he's had over 60 years of "living" with a power he didn't even know he had.

 

Nope. Because Terminally ill weren't lynched for merely existing. They were more likely to be smothered.

 

I was talking about flipping real world systemic Power Dynamics issues as a "mirror reflection" upon our own society.
Sometimes the way to make the oppressor understand the oppressed, is to show them what it's like to be the oppressed. This can backfire stupendously, creating a group of oppressors that act like they are the oppressed.

Which is why it's very important to make Dumais wells not about gender. Not about all women in the world oppressing Men. But about Aes Sedai, specifically the Red Ajah, bad/evil ones at that, doing evil shit, to gain power.

I agree that this is being taken WAY too seriously outside the narrative. Just because Rand is male, and the protagonists of the scene are women doesn't make it an allegory in misogyny. Women in tWoT are predominantly intelligent and powerful characters from beginning to end. I would actually challenge anyone to give me a better example of gender diversity and powerful female characters in a sci fi or fantasy saga ever. And a story written by a man and edited by his wife. Even if it does come across that way.. So what? I for one appreciate stories that accurately reflect the human condition, in all its aspects. warts and all. The last thing I want to see is some sterilized adaptation terrified of hurting someones feelings in an attempt to appease social justice warriors. If the roles were reversed in that chapter it would be seen as an allegory of oppressed women striking back at their evil male overlords and would be applauded.

Its just a story point! A really exciting moment of change in Rands journey. Its the red wedding of twot. Let it go.

Having said that; I do think certain aspects of the overall plot could be tricky. eg. the love triangle will definitely need to be curtailed to some extent. But nitpicking every nuance that rubs someone the wrong way will end in disaster.

17 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

the witcher also had a lot of money, but they screwed up military real bad. it's the only part of that show i didn't like. i didn't watch game of thrones, but i'm told battles also were rendered very poorly there.

for some reason, movies seem extremely reticent to show real military strategy

Words of wisdom here for sure. A big budget doesn't mean quality... by any stretch! Example..? Well. any Micheal Bay movie. And ya, the Witcher had so much potential and resources... Fail!! Ya, enough said.

Money alone wont buy ground floor story building and source dedicated production. And even with both, the production can still shit the bed at the end (Game of Thrones )

On 12/20/2020 at 2:00 AM, johnnysd said:

Reading this thread I realize I see WoT quite differently than a lot of you:

 

I sort of HATE Dumai Wells and think for many reasons that scene will never work in the TV series.  It may be my least favorite thing in all of the WoT I hope it is cut and completely changed.

 

I kinda hope they completely ditch the Last Battle as written. It has no subtlety and I found it sort of excruciating to read. I actually have no interest in reading any of the Sanderson books again, but have read all of the Jordan books multiple times, and the first few maybe as many as 10 times.

 

I would actually change/cut much of story after book 7 to be honest.

 

The entire sequence at Falme is what I look forward to most. It is so visually epic and made for film.

 

I really want to see the entire Rand/palace scene in Caemlyn but I fear they are cutting it completely.

 

I look forward to the whole Shadar Logoth sequence

 

Nynaeve healing Logain

 

Rand and Aviendha especially the scene where she travels to Seanchan

 

The scenes from the Age of Legends

 

I really hope they retcon Taimendred (as intended!) as it will make the who Black Tower way more interesting.

 

 

 

While I agree with a few of your opinions, I must ask you this: Give me 2 examples of why Dumais Wells will never work in the TV series.

On 12/12/2019 at 12:05 PM, Lancer said:

Dear Rafe,

 

1. Do NOT skimp on the Channelling SFX...They need to be Amazing NOT Cheezy!

 

2. Swordplay needs to be Realistically Epic.  Since these are mainly Katana's the swordplay needs to be quick & nasty.  Funk Nasty not STINKY Nasty

 

3. Can the Two Rivers Long Bow, be a Composite Great Bow?  aka Recurved Greatbow that is a cross btw an English Longbow & a Recurved Bow?  That way it is nearly impossible to wield w/o training?

#1. Totally agree. This show will be nothing without a passionate commitment to SFX, set design and wardrobe.

#2. This is a great point! The book faithful, who will be the initial foundation of any series fan-base, will go postal without Kurosawa quality battles and tactics.

#3. Just FYI from a archery nerd, Don't let a Welshman hear you say 'English longbow' lol.

But seriously; I think just a classic Welsh longbow as portrayed fairly well in Game of Thrones and Braveheart is all we need. The idea of a composite longbow to me would be too much of a stretch realistically speaking. Much like your comment on swordplay, I would want to see equal attention paid to the accuracy of archery depiction.

All in all, great comments!

On 9/27/2020 at 11:32 PM, Harldin said:

No Shaido after Dumais Wells, that whole storyline can be cut. Perrin forging his power wrought Hammer with Grady is one I’m looking forward to, and something that may possibly happen much earlier to.

Good call on the Shaido. The hammer will be epic too.

2 hours ago, Harldin said:

warning spoilers, but you really shouldn’t be reading this thread if you are trying to avoid spoilers

Ones I’m most looking forward to. if they happen.

1/ Rand, Tam and Bella walking towards EF, i think I’ll break down at that moment

2/ Rand meeting Loail, he shouted Trolloc, fell over and looked up, up and up. Loail is a character they need to get right, universally loved by readers, the producers need to get the same from the viewers.
3/ The arrival of the Heroes of the Horn at Falme. Hawkwing is the perfect character for a Cameo from a major star.

4/ Mat giving Gawyn and Galad a lesson in the Staff.

5/ The Battle of Emonds Field. I think this was Faile’s finest moment.

6/ Dumais Wells, i think everyone wants to see that one.

7/ The Cleansing of Saidin. 

8/ Egwene back in the Tower and the AS trying to break her.

9/ Mat reading Thoms letter about Morraine, i think the producers will play this up more than was done in the Books. 

10/ The entire final battle, it could very well be the longest continuous Battle ever filmed. The chapter in AMOL is 200 pages long and takes 9 hours for Michael and Kate to narrate. It could make the Battle of the Bastards or the 5 Armies look like a Bar Brawl between some Drunks. It is the longest most epic fictional battle i have ever read, everything from Swordplay to Sorcery to Cannons.

 

The scene I’m least looking forward to seeing is the lighting of the Pipe as it will mean its all over.

Amazing list. All I would add is Egwene and Verin, a chapter written by the master himself.

On 12/12/2019 at 5:30 PM, Lancer said:

Lord of the Rings started w/ an Elven Voice over, then the Epic Battle of Sauron being defeated.  That set up the whole trilogy.  

 

Game of Thrones started w/ White Walkers killing fools out of nowhere, setting up an anti-climatic 8 seasons of what the FUBAR these Zombie whatabes were??!! 

 

Wheel of Time SHOULD start off w/ Lews Therin wandering the halls looking for his beloved & ending w/ him creating Dragonmount.  Then have Harriet narrate the set up to the following scene and end it saying,

The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings or endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning."

Above any character, this story is about Robert Jordan's, vision!!! This fan knows what they're talking about! Couldn't have said it better myself. I truly hope they don't sidestep the incredible opening RJ wrote. The the whole story begins and ends with Less T/Rand A. Re-read the first and last chapters of the series... It's undeniable. 

  https://screenrant.com/the-wheel-of-time-amazon-series-important-aspects-from-robert-jordan-novels/   

On 12/12/2019 at 5:30 PM, Lancer said:

Lord of the Rings started w/ an Elven Voice over, then the Epic Battle of Sauron being defeated.  That set up the whole trilogy.  

 

Game of Thrones started w/ White Walkers killing fools out of nowhere, setting up an anti-climatic 8 seasons of what the FUBAR these Zombie whatabes were??!! 

 

Wheel of Time SHOULD start off w/ Lews Therin wandering the halls looking for his beloved & ending w/ him creating Dragonmount.  Then have Harriet narrate the set up to the following scene and end it saying,

The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings or endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning."

Wonderful. Perfect.

On 10/24/2019 at 2:23 AM, Polskija said:

The story was never about Rand. It was about all of them who's choices enabled him to become what he was and do what he did. 

If that low budget stunt got one thing right, it was the scene it chose. Dragonmount is the only choice..

Dum

On 9/19/2019 at 4:08 PM, Kalle alTear said:

I can't wait to see Moiraine tell the story of Manatharen. I really hope they give us glimpses into that past when she does. 

Galad  (I just want to see someone so pretty)   OOOH speaking of a whitecloak!! How about that Dark Friend gathering where you discover that one of them IS a Whitecloak and inquisitor!!! 

 

 Igtor coming back to the Light at the last moment and giving his life so that the others can escape. I bawl my eyes out every time I read that part.   Dumai’s Wells, 

 

 Verin's reveal.  (another tear fest) . 

 

The Malkiri riding to join Lan with the Golden Crane flying again. 

 

  Or The moment when Rand finally after all that resisting and anger accepts his fate and is at peace with himself and what is destined to happen. His walk back down the mountain and everything coming to life around him. I cried so hard.   

Yup!! The ride of the  Malkiri at the Gap. The gateways opening. "and ten thousand became a hundred thousand... "  Wow. Has to be there.

On 9/29/2019 at 12:17 PM, Polskija said:

 

There's a difference between being strong and being a bodybuilder. There is no gyms in Randland, nor do we see Perrin having 7 meals a day and pumping iron 24/7.  So, strong yes, but any sort of bodybuilder mass would have worn off at the latest after they leave Two rivers and a blacksmith don't need that kind of muscles, only the ones he works with. 

 

I didn't suggest anyone aught to appear as a bodybuilder, that would look ridiculous. What I said was "Perrin should be a beast!" My reference to Perrin and Rand hitting the gym was the fact, that of the entire cast so far, Perrin and Rand are the furthest (physically) from the source material. Perrin is constantly described as not just strong, but a big man, bigger than most. With huge shoulders and arms; traits you would develop in a forge. In fact the books describe Perrin as being bigger than most from a young age. What I'm getting at is that his big stature is a natural feature, cross that with his profession.... I maintain, Perrin is too small.

On 9/23/2019 at 11:23 PM, JJLXL said:

I rather liked the Dr. Strange approach to "magic".  Just flesh it out more by including the weaving aspect.  Saidin and Saidar should be visually different from one another.  Saidin needs to be more chaotic in appearance, in order to show the struggle it is to control it.  Saidar should look very strong, but peaceful in appearance.  Also, I hope they show the differences in handling the male half versus the female half.  Embracing versus Seizing.  

 

The One Power is such a huge part of WoT.  Please please please get it right!  

15 hours ago, JJLXL said:

Channeling should ONLY be visible to other channelers.  You have to be able to sense the source to use or see it.  It wouldn't make any logical sense if non-channelers could see weaves.  The effects of a weave(fire, earth etc...), yes, but not the weaving.  

 

If they have to, go ahead and let men see women channeling and vice versa.  I'm also against that, but at least it would be logical.  

 

EDIT:  Channeling should also be visible from the 3rd person(story telling) perspective.  

Regarding "The Power" and it's visual presentation, I like allot of the comments so far; How it is sensed (Highlander route [Nice one agreddon]).  Seen or unseen ( Totally with you that Saidin and Saidar should appear as opposing forces). 

 There are just so many more overlapping aspects of "Channeling" I just can't see it coming out without needing alteration. I agree with you in wanting what most reflects the narrative, I would prefer all channeling portrayed as written and described. I just think, with so many variants, it will become a storyboarding quagmire.  World, history, Aes Sedai, false dragons, Main Characters, Fades and Trollocs... With so much to introduce in just a few episodes, it would seem necessary to simplify the Power visually. Trying to portray All the nuances of weaves, elements, sensation and who can see what, may become confusing to non Book readers. 

I do believe a happy medium can be found. Light help them, I hope they get it right!

On 9/23/2019 at 11:23 PM, JJLXL said:

I rather liked the Dr. Strange approach to "magic".  Just flesh it out more by including the weaving aspect.  Saidin and Saidar should be visually different from one another.  Saidin needs to be more chaotic in appearance, in order to show the struggle it is to control it.  Saidar should look very strong, but peaceful in appearance.  Also, I hope they show the differences in handling the male half versus the female half.  Embracing versus Seizing.  

 

The One Power is such a huge part of WoT.  Please please please get it right!  

Again, I couldn't agree more. They'll have to scrap the idea that channeling is invisible to normal people and likewise between men and women channellers, but I can live with that. 

2 hours ago, JJLXL said:

Being that they have to cover almost 800 pages in roughly 8 episodes, I don't doubt that each episode will be an awesome experience.  If they were doing 22 episode seasons, then I'd worry.  

I agree. I have to say I'm i bit concerned about attention to set and character detail. It seems the cast was finalized very close to the start of filming. If the cast in the group photo from Twitter is up to date with the start of filming... If so, Perrin and Rand needed 12 to 16 weeks in the gym at least. I understand that the actor comes first, but come on... Perrin should be a beast!

After a friendly debate with my co-host on our own StarWars podcast (www.kyberclub.com). I vehemently supported and defended the new, fan friendly, streaming era of small screen shows. Access to the whole season upon release is the best way to please the fans that can't wait, the ones who prefer to wait 7 days between (whoever they are), and generate interest from casual watchers who may just say to themselves "I'll check out episode 1, see what its like".  The latter being more likely to watch episode 2 if it's available right away as opposed to "Ya I watched the first one, kinda lost interest."

Is there any information on how this will be released, and what are your thoughts?

Allot of commentary so far, hints that the show will open with Moiraine's arrival in the Two Rivers.  This is a bad move imo.

 Whatever you thought about the "Winter Dragon" stunt, the fact remains that the death of Lews Therin, the prologue of the entire series, is essential for setting the tone of what is to come, and why it's coming. Remember the Game of Thrones opener? The "Others" and the rangers... It kicked off the whole story and immediately left you wanting to know more, as the books did. If it had started off with Bran learning his archery skills... You get the point.

I believe The Wheel of Time has to start the same way. Especially for those who will not have read the books. The show opener has to leave the audience gasping and wanting to know, as I did when I first read it, who is this guy who just destroyed the world??? 

Thoughts?

8 hours ago, mactwist2 said:

I think overall just the scale of it can be difficult.  It's a sweeping epic and in general that hasn't been done very well in the past aside from a couple times.  I think the power can be done effectively like Dr. Strange and that'll be fine.  The inner dialogue I think can be fine with a good script and good facial actors.  I don't know I'm just rooting for the best.

I hear ya. The Dr. Strange approach is unavoidable. 

I think the biggest challenge of production here is this. How to approach a story so rooted in inner monologue and virtual description? Two prime examples that CANNOT be dropped being; Machin Shin ( the black wind in the Ways) and Rand in the box ( Lews Theron in his head and Rand's feeling across the shield knots ).  Both of these are major parts of the story, The latter arguably The Wheel of Time's "Red Wedding". Yet both are hugely internal and unseen.  I'd love to here what you all think about this page to screen challenge. What have you got? 

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

She's the lady that's always bringing Rand back down to Earth.

Elayne teaches Rand to be a King.
Aviendah is teaches Rand to be hard as stone.
Min teaches Rand to be Human.

You make fine points, I forgot about that. Im starting a re read. I still maintain, that while these are important aspects in the written work., in a translation to screen  (especially if curtailing the romance), not necessary. Just my opinion

On 10/3/2018 at 5:48 PM, johnnysd said:

Not sure they need to cut that much. Despite being hugely long books, I think there is less actual plot in a book from ASOAIF as an example. I think they could do much of the core story if not all of it in 8 seasons. A lot of the stuff in later seasons like Faile's imprisonment, Elayne retaking the throne can be greatly reduced and consolidated. Morgase's imprisonment as well.

 

I think the best thing they can do is to make Mazrim Taim be Demandred as originally intended. Yes I know Jordan denied this but I still don't believe him, he just made it too obvious.

 

I really dont think you can delete any of the main set of characters. Polygamy wont play well so that will likely be morphed into a more girl-centric love triangle +1, encouraging female viewers to "ship" either Elayne, Avi or Min and form Camp Avi, Camp Elayne and Camp Min, and maybe early Camp Egwene. They could actually skip Avi and Min and change it to just Egwene versus Elayne but I dont think they will do that.

 

Also, I actually do think that the WOT is actually women driven. Egwene and Nynaeve are as important as Matt and Perrin in many ways. 

 

It will also be interesting to see how "adult" it is. Jordan's writings were for the most part PG-13 but a lot of the content is at least as hard as Game of Thrones, especially if you want to portray the Forsaken correctly. I expect it to be pretty explicit actually.

I really think combining very select characters will be both necessary and beneficial. I love your idea of merging Mazrim Taim with Demandred.

Care must be taken with regards to the ladies in Rand's life I agree. Page to screen, this could easily look weird to new comers with out the full narrative. Having said that, "girl-centric love triangle +1, encouraging female viewers " scares the crap out of me. This has the danger of coming off way too cheesy if not done right.

I'm all for merging or outright cutting Min's story completely

. She really doesn't push the story in any way I can think of. 

Great points!

2 hours ago, djanego said:

Quick Google says that Daniel Henney is 1.88m, and Rosamund Pike is 1.74m.

I love Lan and I love Daniel Henney so I'm happy. 

 

I think people are obsessing too much over the looks of the cast. Maybe it's because I live in Australia (generally very multicultural) and I'm also mixed race, so I feel like a person's appearance often has nothing to do with their culture, fictional or not. 

(on obsessing on looks) I totally agree, I was one of them.  Having read book 1 in the mid 90's I've had pictures in my mind's eye for a long time regarding character appearance and thats a hard visualization to re draw mentally.  But now i'm digging it. I just started a re-read of the series and half way through book 1, and I'm liking all the choices. But not this one. He's just not Lan, not for me anyway. To be clear, my disappointment has nothing to do with ethnicity or Mr. Henney's talent. I just don't see the King of Malkier here. Not yet anyway. Hopefully I'm proven wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.