Suddenly Balthamel jerked in the Green Man's grasp. The Forsaken's hands tried to push him away instead of clutching him. One gloved hand flung wide ... and a tiny creeper burst through the black leather. A fungus, such as rings trees in the deep shadows of the forest, ringed his arm, sprang from nowhere to full-grown, swelling to cover the length of it. Balthamel thrashed, and a shoot of stinkweed ripped open his carapace, lichens dug in their roots and split tiny cracks across the leather of his face, nettles broke the eyes of his mask, deathshead mushrooms tore open the mouth. The Green Man threw the Forsaken down. Balthamel twisted and jerked as all the things that grew in the dark places, all the things with spores, all the things that loved the dank, swelled and grew, tore cloth and leather and flesh — Was it flesh, seen in that brief moment of verdant rage? — to tattered shreds and covered him until only a mound remained, indistinguishable from many in the shaded depths of the green forest, and the mound moved no more than they.

I really hope we get to see this!

On 8/27/2021 at 6:18 PM, Beidomon said:

Oh my God I’m changing my answer the top thing I’d Balefire is the last dozen posts or so. Good grief people it’s a work of fiction. Please give it a rest or start a new thread. 

Amen!!

14 hours ago, Elgee said:

I've not decided yet. Some things I really liked, some I'm not so sure of, but I want to see more before I make up my mind. I'm just glad someone's doing it, finally!

My feelings exactly!

Better? Whatever. Or What have they done to my Wheel of Time?

On 9/1/2021 at 11:43 AM, Elder_Haman said:

I know everyone is probably sick of my comparisons to The Last Kingdom - but I'll make another one cause that show rocks and is also a good barometer for what I'm hoping WoT will be -- a quality, character focused adaptation that can deviate from the source material without changing the focus of the story or the core of its main characters.

 

So, for example, Father Beocca is described in the books as having wild, red hair and being extremely ugly with pox scars, a lazy eye and a crippled hand. In the television show, Beocca is played by Ian Hart: 

 

 

While the difference between the book description and Hart is vast, there was never a single time where it made an iota of difference to me watching the show. That's because Hart absolutely nails Beocca's gentle spirit, his devotion to Christ, and his compassion for Uhtred. Indeed, since the Saxon Chronicles (upon which Last Kingdom is based) are written from the first person, Hart's portrayal adds a layer of depth to the Beocca/Uhtred relationship that we don't get to see in the books due to narrative limitations.

 

There are many other places in The Last Kingdom where the book descriptions do not really fit the actors. In fact, I'd say it's more unusual when the actors actually seem to fit the book description. And yet Last Kingdom is a wonderful show that has only added to my enjoyment of the books because of its ability to bring forward some of the subtext from the novels in a wonderfully engaging and emotional way.

 

Which is all a very long worded way of saying -- don't sweat the little changes. They won't matter much. It's the tone, pacing, and character interplay that will make or break this series.

So well said Sir. Little details from our novel memories are usually just that... Ours. I didn't even remember when Perrin got his beard, but to other folks, its everything.

Lets all focus on the broad strokes.

55 minutes ago, Harldin said:

Why does everyone think Lan should be built like the Rock? Elite Soldiers being great big muscle bound Hulks is pure Hollywood fallacy, the vast majority in history aren’t. Someone built like Johnson, Stallone or Schwarzegger wouldn’t last a day in Special Forces trg, carrying that much muscle around they would  not have the endurance required. Personally I pictured Lan as being a bit taller but i think Henney’s build is spot on.

While I do Agree  that Lan isn't specifically described as being overly huge, I

have to say that after reading these books since 1997, its exactly the impression I get for the character's appearance and I cant blame book readers for feeling the same.

Though I do agree that  the bodybuilder frame doesn't accurately represent the general physique of most modern warriors, having two retired 22nd SAS soldiers in my family, I can say with certainty, that there are plenty of big SFs dudes that can can carry around plenty of weight on top of their own... trust me.

Having said that, I must agree with your assessment. Not quite tall enough... but aside from that, he fits.

. 

23 minutes ago, Ararana24 said:

So I started to look at this show as a different turning of the wheel than the books, and it's given my mind enough of a separation that I can sit down and actually enjoy this adaptation. 

 

Pros:

- Scenery looks fantastic. Seriously good. It's not how I pictured Tar Valon but I can get behind it. Emond's Field and Shadar Logoth are spot on for me.

- We haven't really gotten to see anything of the three boys, zero lines in the teaser, but Mat is rivaling Moraine as the most spot of casting for me. If there was one character I wanted them to absolutely nail, I would have chosen Mat. Barney is going to be a damn baller if this show gets far enough to cover his transformation in Shadow Rising. Kinda wish they didn't give him a full beard this early though.

- Pike as Moraine. What can I say, she's perfect. That is one face I'm completely okay with replacing my head cannon face.

- Didn't get to see much of the Trollocs but they look spot on. Myrddraal are way different, but the point comes across. 

 

 

Cons:

- Not a huge fan of the way channeling looks. We saw multiple weaves in the trailer from healing to flows of air to lightening and they all look like white misty smoke. I know that was probably going to be the hardest part of a live action adaptation but still a little disappointed the different elements aren't even different colors.

- Lan... yikes. Nothing against the actor, but he's way too small and thin to be Lan from my perspective who I always saw in my minds eye as a tank.

- Not super thrilled how Nyneave is coming across so far, both in appearance and attitude. 

- Also not a big fan that Nyneave is apparently teaching Egwene how to embrace Saidar. That's probably the first big story change we've seen. 

- So Tam al'thor killed Rob Stark, and I'm never going to get over that...

- Perrin... my favorite character of all time... I'll be patient and hope I'm proven wrong.

Spot on!!

Especially Mat! They nailed him 100%

I was ify on Perrin but I'm warming up.

And Lan... I'm with you. I see him as Bigger and older.

I think the Nyneave Egween scene is more of a Women's ritual of the Two Rivers.

5 hours ago, Beidomon said:

Pros:

- Could have been so much worse.

- I think Rand/Perrin/Mat all look pretty great.

- The action stuff looks high quality.

- The baddies look great.

- We're gonna see plenty or Reds and Logain in S1, which will be welcome additions.

- Shadar Logoth looks great.

- Egwene actually looks better than I thought. I'm less worried about her.

- What music there was sounded pretty great.

 

Cons:

- The faces, costumes, and colors look kinda YA-TV in my opinion. This and the W word are my biggest worries now.

- Several scenes in the trailer are adding content to S1 that wasn't in the books - and that's fine (see Logain) - as long as it's good content. But I dunno about the whole paint pool and shoving into river stuff.

- Not sold on Nynaeve's look and accent. We will see.

- Lan looks a little too young.

- Rand and Nyn are gettin' bizay. Not sure about that at all.

Great points. The W word has always been, and remains my biggest fear for the show.

I only disagree on the Music (It did nothing for me) and costumes (I'm neutral)

Also, I'm pretty sure that was Egeween and Rand, not Nyn.

2 hours ago, CaddySedai said:

Ok so Obviously that title is clickbait central LMAO. Its a post about Tar Valon.

 

First off... the thing that dragged me down this rabbit hole. As a "PRO" regarding the trailer - one that most people might not even care about, to me speaks to the quality of the team making the visuals...

 

The two bridges below - are designed DIFFERENTLY. Much like how a real city would evolve over time and not all bridges would be copy paste you can see their design differs based on age most likely. One being older than the other. 

 

I love the attention to detail!

 

 

However I must admit I am a might confused about the orienting and am hoping I'm simply misunderstanding the "big clump of trees"as the Ogier Grove...Cuz if it is - then "Tar ValAMAZon" is backwards. 

 

The Grove should be on the Osendrelle side of the River Erinin. Thus, in this image one would expect to be facing Southharbor and the nearest brige is to Daghain and the further, Osenrein.

 

 

But in this other shot using the Tower's trio of domes we can see that the lower "tower" clearly is oriented towards Dragonmount. 

 

 

If that is so then the bridges featured actually lead to Darein and Jualdhe, the water we see is the Alindrelle side, and that we are facing Northharbor in the prior image...which means the grove is on the wrong side. 

 

I hope I'm just mistaken and that's like...generic park # 3 and the grove is back and to the right and not yet shown in any imagery.

I looked at this from more than a few angles and I think we are definitely looking southward here. Looking closely at the White Tower's immediate surroundings in both images, it matches with the map. On the Grove? i'm not sure.  

14 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

Honestly they could have had stick figures on a white background and I would have been "Yeeeeeeah, Wheel of Time finally!" That being said I agree with what you said, although with the cons I have to say they have made some character modifications to make the story more watch compelling. Like rand seems way less "naive" and innocent based on the more intimate scenes they teases. And yeah Nyn seemed a bit cheerful but maybe they plan to focus less on the "resting b***h face" aspect so people can visually interpret when she's actually annoyed lol. 

 

With that said I plan to treat a teaser with kids gloves and hope to learn a bit more in a full trailer before release. They usually have more dialogue so we can learn attitude.

 

though I gotta say Im stoked about the "Big Power" scene they showed. Its less "colorful" than the weaving I always pictured in my minds eye...but the flows and meshing is spot on. And I'm wondering if they plan to show that for all big power ...and maybe this is what a non-channeler sees...and maybe from a channelers view we might see more in depth weaving? Or maybe in Azn Prime Randland they are one in the same.. So many questions ?

Your first Comment on modification is well put and I see your point. Totally makes sense.

I'm also on page with you regarding channeling, and how it will be presented. Both from a character POV as well as a viewer.

I feel quite satisfied with what this long awaited preview provided. Not blown away... Just satisfied and relieved.

Pros

• The environmental setting is spot on! 100%
• The Fade looks savage! 100%
• Tar Valon & Dragonmount...  Priceless

Cons

• Nynaeve looked a bit to cheerful?
• Music? Nothing compelling so far...

Thoughts?

Not really intrigued. Rand and Perrin look the part, and Moiraine looks right. Lan isn't doing it here, not for me... not yet anyhow. Nynaeve and Egwene Ive never been on page with. Both actresses may surprise me though, and i hope they do... I'm just not seeing it.

On 1/25/2021 at 2:12 AM, WoTrospective said:

Have you guys seen the quote from RJ where he says he's a freemason? I mention this because there's all this weird esoteric stuff going on in the book that he's getting at.  

Here's a great start: http://13depository.blogspot.com/2002/03/the-refining-principle-alchemical.html

But why would justice be important to him? Take a look a this, it's called "The tree of life" it's from Jewish Mysticism:

 

This is essentially a diagram of the human soul.  The reason Justice is important is because it connects Rand's severity to his beauty, which leads to death and then to victory. He needs Justice to defeat the Dark one. The tarot can be laid onto here as well.

 

The sign Libra is of course the scales, that harkens back to Egypt where upon death a mans heart was weighed against the feather of truth, and then of course in his right hand the king holds a sword. 

What is the meaning of the Justice tarot card?

"The Justice card indicates that the fairest decision will be made. Justice is the sword that cuts through a situation, and will not be swayed by outer beauty when deciding what is fair and just."

 

He needs these qualities to save the world methinks?

My 10 minutes of fame was kicking the Freemason question off. I was in my first month being a freemason when I posted the question on Robert Jordan's blog. I was so happy to get an answer from the man himself.

https://13depository.blogspot.com/2002/03/freemasonry-and-wheel-of-time.html

4 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

I doubt it. I wouldn't be surprised if they leaned pretty heavily on Moiraine's perspective throughout the first several episodes...if not, the whole first season, as they've basically hyped it as "Moiraine's story". Cast their main actress as Moiraine. Ect... Which is fine with me. I think from an adaptation standpoint it makes sense to have Moiraine be the main character for even the first two seasons ... But then you have to transition to 

  Hide contents

The Dragon/Rand

 

That's not to say that you aren't right that we may not "see" weaves until later on. 

Agreed. Moiraine will carry the introduction to this story through at least season 1. Her past, her knowledge and without the Dragonmount prologue, the first representation of the one power necessitates it. 

1 hour ago, DojoToad said:

I think the oppression of the Ways will rely on the actors every bit as much as any special effects.  Hope they can pull it off!!

I agree 100% One without the other will not be enough, especially to life long fans. 

1 hour ago, lt;(^-^)gt; said:

Yeah for sure, I think the Paths of the Dead were a little too "haunted house" compared to what they could have been and how I pictured them. The Ways are actually very similar, both in their tone and their purpose in the story, and I hadn't really thought about that before. I think the Ways might be a bit easier to portray, because there's no "Aragorn must make the undead recognize his claim" plot point, which added some difficulty to the whole segment from a horror standpoint. The portrayal of the trip through Moria would be closer to the tone I'd want, although that still misses the mark a bit.

 

Making the fantastical elements feel "right" in the setting is definitely going to be a challenge, but there's a large body of work in the genre for them to build on, and even shows/movies that are lighter on magic like GoT have plenty of lessons to teach in that regard. With the budget they have, I think the show is poised to really knock that out of the park, as long as they actually take those lessons to heart and build on what came before in the genre and medium.

You make a great point about Aragorn and his mission. As well as Moria being a good tone. I hope they find the creativity to portray a darkness seemed to eat the torchlight and the black wind.

2 hours ago, DojoToad said:

The childishness gives him a chance to grow as a character.  A sign of good writing that Jordan was able to elicit such a strong response in you.  I've had similar responses to characters in lit, TV, and movies.

   Agreed! Mat's Aloofness and childish antics are the basis of his character.

18 minutes ago, lt;(^-^)gt; said:

 

I'm really looking forward to it! I don't know exactly how they'll manage to get across the sense of scale while keeping the oppressive darkness, but that moment when they realize "wait a minute, aren't we directly above the spot we started?" could be a great little scene to build tension. Loial reading the rotting and/or defaced guiding stones is another good moment, and also could be a good visual representation of the Taint. I think the Ways would be a great place for Moiraine and Loial to drop some exposition to the Emond's Field group about the Taint and the Breaking, and how the wonders of the Age of Legends have been either forgotten, corrupted, or both.

 

With all of that, and thoughts of madness fresh in everyone's mind, the voices from Machin Shin can start up. Maybe Rand hears them first, and the show could play with that for a moment where we're not sure if it's just Rand hearing it, and he's not sure either. And that leads to everyone's mad dash for the exit.

 

That's a rough idea of how I'd go about it. I think it could be a really memorable sequence if they do it right. I want to feel that suspense build up.

The Ways and the Black Wind will be a challenge.  One of Return of the King's greatest failures in translation was "the paths of the dead" looking more like a haunted house ride at Disney Land than the terrifying tunnels in the book.

I think you hit all the points of what it should be. Great answer

On 8/21/2021 at 12:39 AM, lt;(^-^)gt; said:

If we're doing 3 scenes from book 1 that I'm looking forward too (which I love as a topic), here's mine:

 

1) Rand and Logain

2) Machin Shin

3) Mashadar

 

I might be a little biased towards the horror aspects, but I'm also excited to see a lot of other moments, these are just the 3 that come to mind in a list :3

Ya for sure!  I wonder how they will present "The Ways"

The Ways and the Black Wind will be a challenge.  One of tLotR,s greatest failures in translation was "the paths of the dead", which ended up looking more like a haunted house ride at Disney Land than the terrifying tunnels in the book.

On 8/20/2021 at 10:24 PM, Wolfbrother31 said:

? I think the topic really should have been: three scenes you're dying to see. 

 

The scenes in S1 I hope they get "right" are: 

1) Winternight & some BA Trollocs (of course) 

2) Rand seeing Logain for the first time.

3) Perrin & the wolves vs. WhiteCloaks.

 

Pretty indictive of how the series is going to go if they don't do these scenes "right"! 

Well put. You're probably right. I wish the first response was equally respectful. I should have more accurately titled the post. I really like your responses. Especially Perrin and the Whitecloaks.  

The Ways and the Black Wind will be a challenge.  One of tLotR,s greatest failures in translation was "the paths of the dead"

1 minute ago, DojoToad said:

A little ahead of yourself. None of those will be season one

Wow, I'm glad to you're here to tell me these things... I was referring to the show as a whole.

More there are to be sure. The following moments though, MUST be done with epic presentation!

1. Dumais Wells...

2. Rhuidian

3. Choden kal

Olver, Barilane and Gawan... Please!!

On 5/3/2021 at 12:10 PM, TheTuna450 said:

Whether or not Gawyn gets cut or written out early is an interesting question, and probably has more to do with whether or not they want a love interest for Egwene than anything else. From a TV perspective, Gawyn isn't really needed anywhere. His role in Siuan's escape isn't important, he doesn't really matter for Elayne's plotline, and he isn't really important for the Tower civil war, which will certainly focus far more on channelers in the TV version. Which leaves his relationship with Egwene as his sole major involvement with a protagonist, and that's not particularly important for Egwene's character arc so much as it exists to give her some romance.

 

Given current trends in writing and my own personal bias against the Gawyn and Egwene relationship, I would expect them not to give her a relationship, and so the more I think about it the more I think he well might be cut entirely or written out early. I'm probably wrong, though. I do think Galad is 100% a lock to stay because, as other posters have noted, the Whitecloaks appear set to play a prominent role in the show, and he is both a vehicle to show us the internal workings of the Whitecloaks and to (eventually) reform them for use in the climax.

I have to agree with all your points. Gawyn always irritated me. His character never seemed crucial to the narrative. And to your point, beyond a shoehorned love interest for Egwene, his contribution to the overall saga is practically pointless. All he really does is whine about Rand while following Egwene around like a lost puppy. 

The whole storyline of the "younglings" felt kind of cheesy to me.  Of all the names you could use to instill dread in your enemy... The band of the red hand, the people of the dragon, the deathwatch gaurd... "The Younglings" ???

I love The Wheel of Time, and I love Robert Jordan. But this is a character that should easily be dropped.

6 hours ago, mistborn82 said:

Only reason I want Gawyn in the story is so Mat can kick their behinds when he can barely stand and then kill him in the tower fighting. I actually his death would serve more of a purpose than his 'plot arc'.

I agree. His overall contribution amounts to so little!  I was also glad to see his ultimate demise. His failure on almost every  level pretty much sealed his fate. He was Egween's lost puppy.  Thats why I see him as so Expendable for the show.