50 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

I'm definitely partial to the idea that the characters are bad at math.

bad at math, and that ol' unreliable narrator trope that RJ made ample use of. 

In Nyn's defense, she knew almost nothing about the Source then, so she could have been sorely mistaken. 

Then again, a circle seemed to limit how much could be drawn from the Sa'Angreal, going by the experience Eggy had during the Tower's battle vs the Seanchan (with all those linked with her + her forkroot weakness, she was just at her own max power) and her inner dialogue during the last battle (and BS's very convenient reveal on it's mechanics that had NEVER been mentioned ever in the previous books..*cough*). 

10 minutes ago, Guire said:

Show ages are different.  Mo has a 5-10 year younger sister in her late 60s.  Book Mo is mid to late 40s.  Show Mo 20 plus years older.  If Aiel war 20 years ago marks Gitara fortelling she spent 20 extra years in tower possibly all with Siuan.  Also she is now a few decades older than Lan instead of slightly younger. And she would have probably been actively involved in Aiel War.

In the portrait in Mo's room, it seemed to show her being at least in her late teens or older so (definitely not a child or adolescent), and her sister said "it's been six decades" since she saw her last, so I bet Mo's at minimum in her 70's. 

And I think show Liandrin is much older too. According to the blog she was 36 (which made sense to how impulsive and immature she was in the books)..where'as the show version had a son who was between 80-90 at least (according to her speech to Nyn), so she has to be close to or over 100 at the least.

I like that they aged up the Aes Sedai in the show. They already had aged up the Two Rivers kids by a few years, so it fits in the scale.

2 hours ago, Cipher said:

 

 

Changes which are bad:

-Lan being neutered from S1E2 on.

 

A man experiences sadness, loss, re-evaluation of his purpose, and many other powerful emotional experiences, and they portray it frankly on screen, and suddenly, he's "neutered".  smh

I've said this before, and I'll likely say it again, Rafe & team are showing that the men in the series have actual depths to their emotional experiences, will EXPRESS and obviously deal with those emotions (in both healthy and unhealthy ways), confide in and support each other, and grow....This is a HEALTHY portrayal and only strengthens the characters. 

Lan will likely recover and grow from this, and he's going to be an even stronger character in the end. No body is being neutered. 

Well, the assumption that a healthy man must be stoic, emotionless, and perfect is being neutered. 😉

1 hour ago, Scarloc99 said:

Well that was some brilliant manipulation deserving of Elaida by many people, including Shohreh in convincing the fanbase she would be Cadusane lol 

right!?

I'm excited this is her role, since it will not only mean more screen time but also a very juicy role to take over. She's going to bring a powerful depth to that character, and I can already imagine how intense some of the scenes between her and Egwene will go in the later seasons. 

8 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

The one power can't heal the effects of Aging, and the old fashioned Aes Sedai way of healing (pre the Ashaman, I forget his name, showing that healing can be targeted at a very particular thing), takes alot of energy from the person being healed, so much so that it can in itself kill the patient. So an old person being "healed" from a heart attack or other old age disease is just as likely to then die from the effects of the healing. We don't know what the new style healing will allow, maybe it will allow longer life amongst non channellers. But the Age Disparity is something I find fascinating anyway, in the Age Of Legends non Channellers, simply as a side effect of living much much shorter lives are I imagine a second rate class of citizen, they don't have positions of power, they are not the great thinkers or great scientific minds because there are always those who have the one power who are just more experienced and have been around longer. I wonder if the Aiel Tradition came about as non channellers tried to find some value in society.

If I remember correctly, during the Age of Legends the average life expectancy of non-Aes Sedai was still high, probably around 120+. 

1 hour ago, Samt said:

In the books, Reanne Corly, the eldest of the kin, is around 410 years old.  Alivia is 414.  Cadsuane starts the books at a relatively young age of 293.  I don't remember any of the wise ones being notably older than this.  LTT was approximately 400 at the time of the breaking.  

 

The expected age that a channeler can reach is dependent on his or her strength in the one power. The most powerful channelers have a potential life expectancy of around 800 years.  This scales roughly across that range so that the weakest channelers live barely longer than non-channelers and those with power levels in the middle have lifespans in the middle.  This applies to both men and women that are as powerful as possible even though the strongest men are more powerful than the strongest women.  So channelers such as Rand, Ishamael, Rahvin, Semirhage, Alivia, and Lanfear are all expected to naturally reach an age of around 800 (although a significant variation due to random chance might be not unexpected).  Of course, it's not impossible for these channelers to die much earlier in battle or from other causes.  It's also the case that the forsaken that were trapped in the bore did not age normally.  

 

Additionally, the use of the oath rod appears to cut an Aes Sedai lifespan roughly in half and make those women have the "ageless" look.  I think cutting the ageless look from the show is necessary simply because I'm not sure what it actually looks like..  The point is that people looking at an Aes Sedai aren't sure if she is 16 or 60 or anything in between.  What does that actually look like?

 

In regards to channelers not bound by the oath rod, they seem to reach physical maturity at the same time as non-channelers and then appear to stay in a physical state of young to middle aged adulthood for hundreds of years.  As they reach the end of their natural lifespan, they might begin to look old.  

 

As to the age of anyone in the show, I think it is not established.  In the books, Aes Sedai of the present age mostly avoid becoming mothers because of the difficulties of outliving your great grandchildren.  We don't ever really get an exploration of the reproductive lifecycle of channelers.  It's interesting to consider that when LTT killed his family, that may have included hundreds or even thousands of people. At that point he likely has dozens of generations of descendants.  Many of them also might have been powerful channelers.  

To actually add to what you're saying, Reanne Corly was the eldest in the Knitting circle, it was mentioned by Nyn and others that the Kin had reported that Aloisia Nemosni was 600 and the oldest known member of the Kin, living in Tear. Pulled data from the wiki

52 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

It's really tough to say.  

The hair's the right length. She's around the right size. The face could be right, but it's to fuzzy to really be sure.
The clothing is slightly different, but that could just be a new day.

This scene with her "mum" (I upped the contrast in this one)

We see the girl has some bead work in her hair.
Her mom's dress has several "rows" on the bottom before we get this large solid color with lets call them "flowers" with 4 shapes in the middle and "triangles" at each corner.

Now compare the dresses on the people we see Fain killing.

 

They have the similar "rows" and "teeth" on the bottom, but lack the "flowers" in the middle.

But, since the X-Ray calls this out as Tel'aran'rhiod, if they keep the thing about "clothing" changes by thinking about it...

Nicely done, thank you for pulling the screencaps and comparing. 

IMO it goes to show they are not the same folk. I am basing that mostly on the fact that the contume designers put a LOT of intention and work into the different clothings, and I haven't seen them show a lot of clothing changes for non-main characters.

They might all be Traveling people, since the styles are similar. Or may also be from similar regions & cultures. The wagons + protective dog + style makes me think Padin Fain was attacking Traveling folk (what an a-hole). I'm curious if we will get more info later.  

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

Speaking of visions...

I wouldn't be surprised if they're moving the "smell violence" (Hurin's ability) and show that as "see visions" of that violence, in place of "smell emotions" because to paraphrase Uno. Who the feck do you show Perrin smelling Faile's contradictory emotions every 5 seconds?

🤣

Seriously, there was so much inner dialogue with the "smelling" and visions from the wolves that would be hard or impossible to translate over to the screen. 

I think the visions are smart and lines up with what viewers are expecting in shows these days and with attention span. They are moments out of step with the current time, since all but Elyas pause, and also reminds me of TAR, so I feel like they are connecting the two. 

I do wish we had some more clear communication between Perrin and the wolves..like we see it sort of happening...but I would love them to find a way to show a communication system between them. Maybe we will get it as the season progresses. 

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

The dog, yes. I didn't see the girl. And Elyas specifically said she escaped.

I feel like we need a scene-by-scene comparison of the clothing. I think it was a different girl, who looked really similar...but not sure. It would be interesting to compare the dresses of the mother/child at the DF Social and the woman & girl scene in Perrin's vision. 

4 hours ago, DreadLord31 said:

Nobody said this was their only consideration for production. But this IS what Rafe, himself said - if you just watch the Bonus content on Prime for the episode. He says, "We wanted the audience to love Uno" and we "wanted the audience to f'ing fear the Seanchan." 

 

Now, they've done so many fake out deaths already - here's to hoping Uno is magically fine in about 6 months! 😉 

Maybe Uno will be raised with the horn =] 

I loved Uno/Nyn dynamic in the books and I was pretty pissed he was killed. But it worked, I see the Seanchan as a terrible threat now because I fear they may actually do serious damage to my favorite characters, rather than just fearing what they will do to channelers & the ruling class. If they are not hesitant to take out a fan-favorite...well...dang, they are more threatening than the Forsaken at this point. 😵

9 hours ago, Vartija said:

Btw, I was really impressed with the casting for Lady Anvaere Damodred. I immediately thought she looked familiar from something and it finally clicked that she played Servilia on HBO's Rome-series, and she was terrific in it. Is she the surprise visiting star that I read would be in Season 2? I assume we'll see more of her when Moiraine reaches Cairhien. 

 

Edit: I just realized she could have been great as one of the Wise Ones too. 

I also for a split second thought, "Cadsuane?"

2 hours ago, Samt said:

Quote

1.  The accepted test is no longer an actual test since it isn't clear what else Nynaeve can do besides run through the portal.

Nyn clearly had to choose whether to continue helping those she cared about, or go through the portal. I admit it was faster than I expected, but like a lot of elements in this series, we are having to accept they do not have the same length of time that the books had for these kinds of scenes. 

 

Quote

2.  The magic system not only seems to have changed significantly, but also just seems to be internally inconsistent.  How does the warder bond work?  If Moiraine is stilled, how can she still pass it on to Alanna?  Who can see weaves?  Who can see when another person has the ability to channel?  

They've definitely changed some things, but we have yet to get the full story. I agree that I think there are some blunders in the shielding/stilling?/bond + conversations. They are either due to the fault of the characters, or sloppy writing. They are taking their time explaining the magic system though. Something they had more space to do earlier on in the books. 

 

Quote

3.  Logain is in a random asylum in Cairhien when the Aes Sedai should be concerned about him.

I chalk this up to the Aes Sedai do not want to waste their Accepted's time on babysitting gentled men in this universe, so cart them off to an  asylum. To me, fits a little more in line with how people can be awful to folks in reality. It's also convenient for the plot, so meh. 

 

Quote

4.  Min is nearly 40 years old.

The ageism I keep seeing in regards to Min is getting old and is horrid. So what? Min was older than Rand already in the series, and we haven't had her in-series age shared. The actress herself is not 40, so I really wish folks would drop this critique. Y'all know that even so, 40 isn't old right? geeze

 

Quote

5.  The dagger is so not deadly that people just short of shrug it off. 

I am curious if this is one of those blunders they admitted to in Season 1. It was hinted that a number of things, especially the last episode, were mistakenly shown to us, or overlooked in development. The danger of the dagger may have been one. 

 

Quote

6.  Rand has no idea of how to use his sword (or sheath it).

I think this is a miss on their part. There's been little to know training given to Rand on the sword use yet, so I have no idea how they will have him face Turak, let alone become a blade master. Will they make it take longer and be more realistic? Even in the book series I thought his ability to fight so well so early on was kind of un-believable....but chalked it up to "he's the bloody hero" 

 

Quote

7.  Thom and Moiraine haven't met.

I for one don't give a flip if they ever met. I think RJ mishandled their whole "relationship" in the books anyways. 

 

Quote

8.  Circles are no longer safe.

I'm finding myself conflicted on this. Were they really in a circle? Or did she do something else with them? I think the added element of danger is interesting...but this could also be like I mentioned before, a mistake on the writers part for building drama in the last Season 1 episode. Especially with the related Nyn near-death and miraculous healing scene. 

 

 

Honestly, I don't have a solid theory as to where they are going to go with Moraine and how/if they will remove the block. 

I know that its clear from show teasers she will end up in Cairihen at some point. It's assumed she'll end up in Falme at some point if we have any influence from the books. How she will get there, what she will do, how she will influence Rand...who knows!? And it's kind of exciting to me. 

I do hope she gets some sneaky moments. I also freaking hope she apologizes to Lan at some point for being such a brat. >_<

39 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

Read: "Seeing my preferred political opinions on TV > fidelity to source material." 

 

Got it. While we're at it, why doesn't Rafe make the Whitecloaks the good guys to appeal to all the Catholics in the audience? Does he not care about how hurt Catholic people might feel when the closest analog to themselves the show has to offer are presented as villains? Smh. 

*yawns*

1 hour ago, Samt said:

Do you really dislike him that much?  

Oh no, sorry if it came across like that! lol I have high regard for RJ, though also keeping it real and like any writer, their work can get out-dated over time as we generally grow and change culturally. I have critiques of his work like I may any, but he's one of my all time favorite authors =]

I hope we get more cold openings like we did in Season 1, with the glimpses into past or other moments. 

As a die hard absolutely total freaking nerd for the books that I've re-read more times than I usually ever admit to others lest I show how much of a freaking NERD I am.....it did take me a minute to settle down and accept the show's plot. But I have, and I love it, and I'm here for it. 

Even the moments where I disagree with what they did (Uno for example)...I understand the reasoning and why. I'm letting this version of the story grow in my mind alongside the book story.  They are different, but similar, and that seems to oddly flesh out the world even more for me. 

I'm also enjoying the more current and modern take on relationships in the show. As I grew up, it got harder to take RJ's take on some of the relationships seriously. And his heteronormative view (bless his heart) is outdated. So, it's nice to have a more current version to go alongside canon as well. 

JUSTICE FOR UNO! 

=]

The Nyneave test hit me HARD! The last scene of her grabbing her child and running through the arches was heart wrenching and much more of an emotional impact than the book's version of the test to me. oof! I felt like I was in part holding my breath through the entire episode. 

I'm okay with the slow build for Mat and Perrin, because I think their character development needs to be more careful. It's less obvious what they need to become, since they aren't "The Dragon" and have a clear path laid out for them. 

At first I was surprised at how involved Liandrin is in many of the plots, and her ample scenes. I'm very much warming up to it now though, especially after the scene with her son(?). I think they are doing well in giving us well fleshed out "bad guys" that have more depth to them than RJ did (bless his heart). I'm into it, and I'm mad that I like her when I felt like I should be hating her. 

I'm not, and will not EVER be okay with what happened to Uno. Period. But I will get over it. Maybe I'm just mad we didn't have a single scene of Nyn glaring at his cursewords. Then again, this TV show Nyn seems less prudish and stuckup than our book Nyn did =]

Elayne is perfect. Exactly how I hoped she would be portrayed. So naively royal and sincere. Her scene of taking the punishment for one of the workers was golden.

I'm a little on edge over Moraine and Lan's relationship...I was not expecting her to be so harshly pushing him away at the end. I really felt for Lan. I'm hoping this gets resolved and they aren't permanently separated. 

4 minutes ago, Samt said:

My struggle with believing that Moiraine is shielded and not stilled is that we get no indication that Moiraine doesn't think she is stilled.  Aes Sedai practice shielding each other to learn how to do it.  Thus, Moiraine would have experience being shielded.  How does she not know that she is shielded?

I wonder if this relates to it being a shield woven with Saidin rather than Saidar. She can't sense the weaves, though she can obv sense the effect. So, she may be unsure what has happened. She could also be acting closed mouth about it, like she does almost everything else. Oh Moraine. 

I think the problem, and it might be on purpose, is that they have not given us an example of a person who has been stilled or gentled and then explicitly talking about what it feels like in relation to the One Power. We haven't had Logain, for example, say whether or not he can sense the One Power "just beyond reach". 

I think this is a deliberate ploy on the writer's part. 

51 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

Did you know, by the way, that wanders can be bisexual?  Rafe doesn’t care too much about crafting a consistent narrative around things like the One Power but he is certainly going to make sure you’re clear on Aes Sendai sexual preferences.  We were reminded repeatedly, first with Egwene walking in on Alanna with her warders, much like that scene in the book, then with Nyneve training with the warders and having a conversation about love, much like that scene in the book, and then Alanna having a talk with Egwene about how to have a threesome, much like that scene in the book….

 

And while I’m on that topic, the warder saying “you always make me feel like the third wheel” was the whiniest, most passive beta male delivery of a line I’ve ever heard, so much so that it was hilarious.

As a queer person, it's been pretty great to see this kind of banter and chat in the show. RJ had plenty of this when he talked about Green sisters and multiple warders, plus other instances. It was just very straight-centric and heteronormative. This is more honest, and as someone who is well experienced with polyamorous relationships, it is all very spot on. 

Including the "whiny" comment about being third-wheel. Which I read less as "whiny" (won't even touch your 'beta-male' comment), and more as an honest complaint that can come out when you're having a very casual conversation about relationships. Here is a man who is among the a group of the world's best fighters, and he still has vulnerable emotions he is willing to express. That's awesome and what we need to see more of when it comes to representation of men. 

On 12/27/2021 at 1:29 PM, WhiteVeils said:

The desperation may be a slow reveal. Right now, in season 1, we are all where Moiraine is, from Moiraine's POV.  Even the flashbacks sort of reflect Moiraine's POV.  And Moiraine's POV...right up until that very last moment is "the arrogance"...her own arrogance at believing she knew what she was doing and her own understanding of what happened 3000 years ago, which is entirely wrong.  Right there, at the very end, she had her arrogance slapped back in her face, and she's going to be dealing with the consequences of that and a greater understanding of what she has done, during Season 2.  Thus the block...she needs to have the consequences of the arrogance written on her just as Suian does later.  They aren't bad people...they just think they know what's right and they don't know everything.  To find out Lews Therin was desperate would expose what they 'know' to be right as wrong a little too early.  
I don't know if we will, but Lews Therin has plenty of opportunity to expose his desperation and reasoning later in the series, as more flashbacks (like one set before this one) or to Rand.  

Though that scene was peaceful, nothing tells us what was going on beyond those walls or across the world.

My thoughts too. The desperation and devastation of the One Power, including what the Forsaken's roles were, will be slow reveals as Mori and other characters develop. I am hoping later we'll get the same kind of past memories view that Rand got while amongst the Aeil. 

Honestly, I think the "weak" acting and seeming inconsistency with the character makes her feel more real to me. She is still searching for her place. 

If they follow through and have her get captured in some (hopefully less dated and less problematic version) way by the Seanchan and then be taught by the Wise One's, we'll see her mature more as she did in the books. I think it will be a great way for the actress to mature along with her character in the role and really serve us a great Eqwene

Dehumanizing of women is going to be so jarring to watch. It was jarring to read. The gold mouthpiece makes it worse. I hope Rafe handles it better than RJ did. 

I feel like with the Seanchan their first introduction will seem basic and "cartoonish" at first, and then they will get deeper. Hoping so at least. 

I'm into the sinister aesthetics, though I'm missing the insect inspiration. I know Rafe says it's there...but I more see Conan the Barbarian than Imperial Insect Army, hah! Except for the ship's sails. Wow, creepy.

I'm curious to how they will explain how the Sul'dam and Damane work and connect with the one power. We haven't seen a clear distinction between channelers having the spark vs teachable...which seemed like an essential thing related to the Seanchan's basis for distinction. 

5 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

It's akin to a D&D 1st Edition Lv 55 Magic-User vs. D&D 3rd Edition Lv 6 Sorcerer.

OMG THAT'S IT!!!