18 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

Actually ... The horse you're beating isn't dead ... because either you or Rafe are wrong. In the bonus content, Rafe specifically says that they made a change from the books and intentionally "Aged up" the characters - gave them different backgrounds - because they wanted them to have motivations that would make sense for stuff later on. 

I'm just saying what Amazon is telling us on their own website, so it's not me who is wrong. The dates in the pictures line up with the book timeline posted above. So according to that Rand, Mat and Perrin and the same age in the show as they are in the book.

I take "aged up" to be more maturity wise rather than actual age (except Egwene, who is actually older). Or maybe Rafe was wrong and thought they were younger, or the website has got their timeline out of whack with Rafe.

1 hour ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

This is very true.  However it is sort of beside the point I originally made which was that Moraine has said that the Wheel doesn't want or chose it just is.  In the book the Wheel (not the creator) choses the hero's.  So again how does the Horn work when sounded?  Does everybody come back?

Minor point, but she never says the Wheel doesn't choose, just that it doesn't (and can't) want. The Wheel weaves the pattern of the age and will spin out a hero when it is needed to serve the course of the pattern. I've heard the Wheel likened to an AI programmed by the creator, it doesn't have wants or needs, but makes decisions based it's programming.

In answer to your question, the fact that every soul can be re-born does not mean they are all bound to the Wheel as the hero's are and will be called by the horn. I agree, the line from Hawking is a bit ambiguous, but I wouldn't take that to mean only hero's souls can be reborn.

4 minutes ago, Sabio said:

In the show it's been already said she set out 20 years ago.  If 20 in the books then it seems a bad place to live if you're 20 and still need ask permission from the town for stuff like to marry.

I'm just telling you how old they are based on the established dates of the events in the books. Amazon is using the same timeline on their website, ergo, Mat, Rand and Perrin are all 19 years and a few months old at the start of the story in both mediums. Moiraine is probably rounding up. 

10 minutes ago, Sabio said:

That is a big downside to having them go from being 17 - 18 in the book to now being 20.  The pranks at 17 - 18 seem natural and now having them be 20 seems childish.

They are 19 in the books, and according to the timeline on Amazon, they are the same age in the show.

I find it amusing that in an adaptation of "The Wheel of Time" we have a number of people complaining the writers are taking time away from the main protagonists to focus on pointless side-characters and sub-plots.

2 minutes ago, Bruan said:

Weep for the Wheel of Time.

Weep for the blood, sweat and tears of Robert Jordan.

I mean, Jordan's books are still there, and still the same as when he wrote them. I believe I heard they are also selling like hot cakes thanks to series.

Rand picking up the Karaethon Cycle

2 hours ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

What I realized from the binge is how far from the actual storyline they have wandered.  E4 and E5 are nearly entire fabrications   There was a small thing that really made me realize they were losing their way.  That was when Moraine says " May the last embrace of the mother welcome you home" at the funeral  She is not a borderlander.   Of course the whole thing is not in the book.   However, what makes WOT great and  the  leading competition to LOTR is RJ's world building which includes the cultures and dialects of the many nations. He builds strong characters with real personalities. He describes clothing and customs in fine detail.   When you make stuff up you lose the old dialog and have to make up new.  So far that is not particularly strong although there are enough strong moments that make me think that there is hope.

I took that as Moiraine honouring Kerene's traditions, similar to how we saw Thom honouring the Aiel with their own words. Karene's character description says she's Kandori and Moiraine, having spent a lot of time in borderlands with Lan would know the words.

Late to the party again, I should really try harder to login on the weekends to post my thoughts before page 32.

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think this was my favourite episode. It didn't have the biggest (or any) battle, biggest wow moment, or best plot twist. But in terms of a quality TV show I think this was the best episode.

Those that are concerned about the focus on minor characters, I have some thoughts. EOTW is a pretty simple story, at it's heart it's an adventure. That means the major adventuring bits can be rushed over a bit without loosing too much and allows them to take some time for world building.

The Steppin arc wasn't about giving Steppin character time at the expense of others. It was teaching us about the bond, and the impact of it being severed. Watchers know now loosing their Aes Sedai will screw a warder up and they aren't likely to forget it. Sure, they could have given us the same info with a short exposition dump and spent some more time with Rand and Loial, but it wouldn't have had the same effect and would likely be forgotten when it becomes relevant to our main cast.

Same with spending more time with Logain than in the books. We now have reason to be really scared for Rand. We've seen the madness and we've seen how devastating gentling is for a person.

So yeah, we do end up with book plot feeling a bit rushed and bits missing. But on the flip side we're getting a really solid foundation on which to tell the rest of the story.

15 minutes ago, KnightWhoSaysNi said:

I just finished episode 4.  
 

I gotta say, I’m liking the series so far.  Sure, it stays away from the books a lot, and I fully expected it too.  
 

I have one question about this episode, and forgive me if this was posted before, but I haven’t read all 52 pages of this thread yet. Lol.  But did Mat leave the Shadar Logoth dagger behind when they fled the Myrddraal?  I didn’t catch that.  
 

i usually watch episodes 2-3 times so maybe I’ll see it next play through

No, but he did leave Birgitte. ?

1 hour ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

#2. The Aes Sedai "linking" together totally looked like a power rangers move. And pretty lame. Quick everybody do your arms like this X = more power. 

I thought the crossing of arms to start the linking was fine until they all did another pump in unison to... I guess, what? Provide an extra dose of power? That was pretty stupid. I did like the loopy strands of power coming out of them though.

1 hour ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

#5. The general trivia says that whatever a wilder's first weave is becomes her talent (can anybody book verify that?) I don't recall ever reading that! 

talent small 't' maybe. i.e wilders would often have developed a weave on their own, sometimes something unknown to the Tower. Per Verin usually related to listing in (eavesdropping), or getting what they wanted (compulsion).

I don't believe the books ever equated first weaves to big 'T' Talents i.e. healing, dream-walking, foretelling etc.

21 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

No. I’m thinking Min provided the rumors to someone in the Blue network. I’m also thinking Moiraine has not met Min yet and hasn’t spoken to her directly, hence they are only rumors at this point. 
 

Then, owing to her uncertainty about the Dragon, she decides to take the EF5 to Fal Dara to meet Min and get a direct answer. Perhaps with Siuan providing additional information. 

Pretty good theory actually. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

3 hours ago, Joe B said:

Easy:

Min went "down country" for whatever reason, and ended up in EF. She ended up viewing the EF5. Later, it came up in conversation with Moiraine. You can write whatever you need in order to fill in the gaps and make it fit into the story of your adaption.

The problem with that, as I just said in another thread is that then it isn't a rumour and certainly not rumours plural. It's direct information.

Just now, Elder_Haman said:

I’m beginning to think Min will be the impetus for heading to Fal Dara, not the Eye. 

So you think she'll be at the White Tower already? That would be the most logical place.

Thinking on Min and the rumour (really getting nit picky now lol). The problem is with the first oath.

"There are rumours of 4 ta'veren". If Moiraine has the information directly from Min, or even from Min via an eyes and ears contact, then that statement isn't true. The same would apply if for example a ta'veren seeing Aes Sedai had been through. For "rumours" to be true the information has to be circulating somewhere.

Like I said, really nit picky, but it does annoy me. There are so many other ways to phrase that to make it more believable. I tell you what if they resolve it nicely, it will be a very positive indication of attention to detail. 

3 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

What if Min had been through there at some point? 

Could work. I don't actually expect to get an explanation and to just be annoyed about for the rest of my life. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it is resolved.

4 hours ago, Beidomon said:

IMHO some folks on these boards are being overly nitpicky - just my perception, we all have things we find more important than others - and other folks seem to be bending over backwards to justify sloppy writing.

 

The Logain “like a raging sun” comment was sloppy writing. I mean, it sounded cool, but it deviates from the lore. Maybe he saw something, sure. He saw a bunch of people getting healed, and maybe Nyn even visually lit up the cave (like they do in an operating room!) but we all know “the raging sun” and the emotional way Logain said it, as a channeler himself, was prompted by him seeing the magnitude of Nyn’s channeling. We know this because there were several examples of this reaction in the books, except not in lore-breaking ways.

 

I get it, people want this show to be as real as possible, so they want to find ways to make the lore consistent. But the writers messed this one up. Doesn’t really bother me - I actually find the defense of the screw up funnier than I find the mistake irritating. 

I disagree, for me it's fun to look at what they've done and see if it can be fit into existing law. It's not purely in an attempt to defend the show.

I've said elsewhere the Nynaeve scene grated up against my book lore nerve on first watch, so it's really interesting for me to analyze it and see if it actually does break the rules. Are there plausible explanations within book cannon for what happened, if not does it fit show cannon or have they just stuffed up? I'm more than happy to just say they stuffed up the cannon if that's what I think happened. For example Moiraine's rumours of 4 ta'veren, they would have to really do something clever to explain that one. I can't think of any possible way there could be rumours of specifically 4 ta'veren in the the Two Rivers. So for now, I'm chalking that up to poor writing.

As for Nynaeve, I think there are definitely plausible explanations for what happened. They've already been pointed out by others out but I'm going to attempt to consolidate the points. For me there a two questions with this scene. Was Logain's reaction realistic and was what Nynaeve did actually possible.

I'll start with Nynaeve because I think it's simpler.

We've seen many occurrences in the books of the young channelers doing seemingly impossible things on instinct. Especially early on when they didn't know what they were doing. So I'm actually fine with just hand waving this one. However I did see someone make a comment that there is an example in the books of Nynaeve accidentally healing cuts and bruises of surrounding people when healing someone. I don't remember this, but would love it if someone could point out the passage if they know where it is.

As for Logain's reaction, before I start I'll list some assumptions based off the books.

Nynaeve isn't ta'veren

Logain can't see Nynaeve holding the power

Logain can't see Nynaeve's weaves

So then, given the above, is his reaction plausible?

1. Moiraine has just previously used the phrase "like a raging sun" to Logain, so its fresh in his head.

2. Nynaeve has no idea what she's doing. She's just poring all her strength in and creating healing weaves by instinct, it's very possible there could be stray weaves doing other things. This is evidenced by:

3. When Nynaeve starts channeling there are physical side effects to what she's doing. Her hair is flying around and there seems to be debris in the air? 

4. Given the above, I also think it's entirely plausible that there was a physical blinding ball of light created as a side effect. You can see light reflecting off the wall of the cave, would a Saidar glow create reflections? It's probably moot, because I don't think we have an answer to that question.

5. So, Logain's just seen the miraculous feat of healing a group of people at the same time and it's entirely plausible he was blinded by a ball of physical light, evocative of a raging sun. Hence the comment and the shielding of the face.

So there you go, for me, what she did was plausible and so was Logain's reaction. It's entirely possible the writers didn't think any of that through and just created a scene they thought was cool. If they did, I think they got away with it on this occasion.

22 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

I’m trying to think and dang he is sickly and useless for a very long time huh? Does he not have his staff even when they are walking to Caemlyn? Huh. I feel like I just got “Mandela Effect-ed.” 
 

*I just did my re-read too. Ugh. Here we go again.*

 

I guess he uses the dagger for a long time. Does he even use one as a walking stick prior to book three?

When they leave the Two Rivers each of the boys takes a weapon. Rand has Tam's sword, Perrin his axe and Mat takes a bow. There may have been a passing reference to staff fights at festivals at some point in the first two books I've forgotten, but I don't think so.

6 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

As for Mat, does he even know how to use a bow staff? When will we get this backstory? Is he just all luck moving forward? Has there been any Easter eggs for this yet? I mean he could start to learn, but he hasn’t even held one yet unless I’m mistaken. That is a long development arc to not even have been touched on yet. I was hoping for the bowstaff competition with some clever back and forth between Tam and Abel while the boys watched or participated. I would have enjoyed a 30 second clip of that immensely. My guess is it will just be memory addition or something. Which is a bit of a bummer but it will work fine.

 

At this point this could be explained easily through an offhand comment, “I guess my dad was good for one thing at least.” Flashback to him training him harshly? Something to explain his competence with his weapon of choice. I just don’t want everything to be reduced to luck or not explained at all you know? Because Mat is proficient with weapons. But maybe they wouldn’t know how to effectively differentiate between luck and talent? 

Err, pretty sure in the books we never see Mat touch a quarter staff or get any indication he knows how to to use one until he whoops some princes.

8 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

17 minutes ago, Kudzu said:

Also it certainly won't be happening.

Sure it will, they're just changing stuff now to whatever they want it to be, no need to worry, it'll work out in the end.

Well this has certainly been a debate conducted in good faith. Good day to you sir.

10 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

The N&Ns won't be happy until every character is the DR. Actually, it's not a bad idea. Liandrin DR and Alanna DR travel the Ways to meet Matt DR and Perrin DR, only to be captured by Padan Fain DR, and rescued by Nynaeve DR with Egwene DR. Sadly the only one not DR, is Rand.

I realise you jest but...

4 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Everything to do with Rand from Falme onward since he won't be the DR?

That's not a change that needs to be made based on the changes to lore you've already established. It may be a change that fits that lore, but it's not necessary.

Also it certainly won't be happening.

4 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Which will require rewrites because that world building is heavily part of how and why the characters act the way they do.

Ok, so which major plot arcs need to change due to any of that?

Just now, AusLeviathan said:

The prophecies,

Not the plot

1 minute ago, AusLeviathan said:

the One Power strength potential for genders

Not the plot

1 minute ago, AusLeviathan said:

the False Dragon's

Not the plot

1 minute ago, AusLeviathan said:

the Red Ajah, 

Why?

2 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

people's perceptions of female channelers

Already pretty poor

2 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

do the Aiel still only send men to the Blight

Probably, since they are the only ones that go insane

2 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

do the Seanchan check if their Damane are the DR

Do they check if men are before they kill them?

Still nothing you are claiming needs to really change the plot or the characters in the story. It's all peripheral world building stuff.

5 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Much of the series has to be rewritten, you are aware of how much this series leans into the fact the DR can only be a man right?

Which bits have to be re-written specifically? In 13 of the books the Dragon Reborn is known to be a man.

Those who still think Rand might not be the Dragon Reborn.

Why would someone decide to adapt a 14 book series. Adapt what is one of the weaker of those 14 books, throw out the rest and write an entirely new story?

Yes, yes I know. You think they already are writing a different story, but you're wrong.