1 minute ago, AusLeviathan said:

Well to start with the fact that the DR can be a woman so we know have female False Dragon's, vague prophecies and in general none of the Two Rivers characters seem that bothered they could be the DR compared to the book where even after he knew he could channel Rand refused to believe it was possible because the idea was so scary to him.

They don't seem that bothered, because they are in denial. None of those other things changes the story, the world building slightly yes, but not the story. 

8 hours ago, flinn said:

 Well, his instrument playing was almost as bad as his singing. He just strummed a few chords here and there. But, yeah I get your point.. bad open mic night, no cover.

I might be wrong here and will eat my words if we get a better performance from Thom playing and singing later on but...

IMHO the problem is mostly with the song composition, not the performance. I don't believe Alexandre Willaume is a very good guitarist (he is a good singer though). At least not good enough to play this song and sing it at the same time. There's nothing actually wrong with the guitar playing in this song. It's simple, but fine, there's a couple of nice chord changes. But I don't believe Willaume is the one playing for the most part. You'll notice in the section of the song that actually has full strumming along with the singing, you don't actually get the guitar in shot. You only see the guitar at the start, when he's hardly actually playing it, then at the end and he only plays a couple of notes to finish out the song.

So they've had to compose the song around the fact they couldn't actually show him playing and singing at the same time, while making it seem like he actually is. Which resulted in a bit of a mixed bag. Overall I think the songs ok for the setting and am hopeful we'll get something a bit more impressive later on.

Of course the other explanation for this that just occurred to me is that the prop guitar is actually unplayable or sounds terrible, which doesn't change any of the above except making me recant my assessment of Willaume's ability.

My current theory is she'll show up with the Whitecloaks that capture Egwene and Perrin.

On 11/28/2021 at 6:51 AM, Harad the White said:

I may have missed it but any posted news on the reason for the Matt replacement? Donal Logue just seems to0 old and heavy for Matt.

Donal Finn, not Donal Logue. I just googled Logue and he would indeed be an odd choice for Mat.

Thanks for the clarification(s).

2 hours ago, JaimAybara said:

I was fully hooked in book two. Yes, it’s a Mcguffin but Mcguffins can be great, like the Maltese Falcon, the suitcase in Pulp Fiction, or any item in Indiana Jones.

I didn't know what a McGuffin was, so I looked it up. What's the McGuffin in TGH? I assume the horn? Or the dagger? Neither fit the definition I read, as both have a use in the plot in and of themselves, rather than just as motivation.

Bit late to the party on this one.

Overall a really great episode, but I do have a couple of nitpicks. First for the good though.

Enjoyed Perrin and Egwene with the Tinkers. I like that they're taking the time to let us understand who the Tinkers are. Really liking Aram in the show, much more than in the books.

Rand, Mat and Thom, was awesome and heart breaking. Loved the Birgitte doll. The Fade fights exactly how I pictured them in my head. Makes me really hope we get a Lan vs Fade this season.

The Logain plotline, while great, is the one with which I have all my nitpicks. All the character moments were really good, loving the building of Nynaeve and Lan relationship.

The bits I didn't like so much:

A bit of clunky exposition, my least favourite was Karene explaining to Moiraine that Liandrin wouldn't drop her shield until Moiraine's was in place. It pulled me right out of the show and I actually said "really?" out loud (in a room by myself). I mean sure Mo as a blue probably doesn't have much experience shielding men so probably did need the reminder, just didn't feel natural to me.

The battle with Logain's army felt a bit underdone and tactically strange from the Aes Sedai. I'm sure this was just budgetary constraints, but it is what it is.

Nynaeve's big healing moment, while awesome, did grate against my book lore nerve, which meant it wasn't as impactfull to me as it should have been.

Logain floating in the air while being gentled was a bit cheesy and overly dramatic, I would have preferred he be forced to his knees, or pinned against the wall.

On 11/26/2021 at 4:55 AM, DaddyFinn said:

Adding to that: I wonder how much they will keep the "I will not put a woman in danger" aspect. I guess some see it as sexist/misogynist but I'd like to have at least some of it

Well it absolutely is sexist of Rand to have that view. That doesn't mean it's sexist/misogynist to keep it in the show, the narrative is constantly punishing him for it (quite literally and physically on at least one occasion). As long as they do a good job of making it clear it's a character flaw of Rand's, rather than a common thing in world, I think it's fine. I can understand why they might want to steer clear of it, but I do like tension it adds to Rand's relationship with the Maidens.

Looking forward to the Padan Fain reveal, which I suspect will come ep 7 or 8. I don't think we'll see him clearly before that, but continue to get subtle hints like the whistling in Shadar Logoth. Then I'm hoping we get a scene with Moiraine questioning him, with flashbacks to what he's been up to, revealing all the hints we did and didn't catch.

23 minutes ago, JJLXL said:

All of that stuff you mention would only have emboldened the WC.  If Moiraine proved it by wrapping Valda in air, she'd be instantly peppered with arrows, along with the rest of the band. 

 

WC wouldn't let a known Aes Sedai go when they had such an advantage.  Also, she could provide valuable information when put to the question.  No, they wouldn't have let her go, to die peacefully elsewhere.  Especially not after the previous set up scene with burning one alive.  WC are sworn to destroy all shadow spawn, and they believe Aes Sedai are some of the worst.

You're making a lot of assumptions on how you believe people would behave which isn't backed up by anything that's in the books or the show.

There are multiple instances in the books where Whitecloaks don't go all out on known Aes Sedai, or even Shadowspawn for that matter.

Look, I agree if Valda's goal was simply to determine if she was Aes Sedai or not, with the intent of capturing her there and then if she was, he should have just asked from a distance. What I and others are trying to say is that there are plausible reasons why he may have chosen not go that way.

1 hour ago, JJLXL said:

Why not ask "Are you Aes Sedai?", if there was any suspicion?  They admitted to the Whitecloaks they had been around shadow spawn.  That's enough for them. 

Because he didn't want to force a confrontation at that point. We have no knowledge yet what Valda's methods are, what his experiences are with channeling, maybe he's tried that before and he nearly ended up dead. There's no reason to think he would be so rash. He said he'd remember there faces and has deliberately separated himself from the more reasonable Whitecloaks.

1 hour ago, JJLXL said:

Why not ask "Are you Aes Sedai?", if there was any suspicion?  They admitted to the whitecloaks they had been around shadow spawn.  That's enough for them. 

 

Even if they don't believe the three oaths, they could still see how she would act if asked.  Also, White Cloaks, Questioners in particular, would have long proven the lie oath to be true during questioning of captured Aes Sedai.   Even if they outwardly call the oaths lies, Questioners would know better. 

And if at some point they captured a black ajah that could lie? If he's taken out 7 Aes Sedai odds are actually pretty good one of them was black.

Is this thread book spoilers? 

Fair enough, if old mate shows up again at all you can have my electrons.

5 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

No, Owein is now Maksim so should be a strong male channeler, or so they said.

Look mate, if I'm putting my hard earned electrons on the line I need to understand what the bet is.

So imaginary guy isn't Owein, but Maksim, who you think will be a channeler? So not only does he know invisibility, but also the mask of mirrors, since the guy in the scene clearly wasn't Taylor Napier.

9 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

No, it was just fine. It introduced the Aes Sedai, men channelers, and the conflict between them, all in a few moments. Not to mention Owein who will net me a bunch of electrons when he returns. Oh..and Moiraine and Lan on a far away cliff.

Wait, I thought you were referring to Owyn (i.e. Thom's nephew) this whole time. I'd forgotten Owein was one of Allana's warders. So the bet is that the imaginary guy will show up as one of Allana's warders at some point?

Just now, Deadsy said:

 

 

So you're saying the naysayers need to learn how to embrace saidar.

Well yes, but to be fair @ArrylT said it first.

13 hours ago, ArrylT said:

Apologies in advance for this ramble.

 

Like most I was aware of the WOT being adapted to a tv series - and was excited.   However I did not pay too much attention over the past few years like many.   I wish I had - not only would I have discovered Dragonmount sooner, but all the fun & enjoyable content out there - on YT, twitter, podcasts & so forth.  And had a better idea of how the adaptation was going.

 

Anyways I will try not to re-hash or be preachy but I do have a realisation for myself that came from a lot of different sources over the past few weeks as I re-immersed myself into WOT.

 

I do not think I need to go into the difference in medium and how a book cannot be adapted 100% - we pretty much all know this - we simply have different ideas of what does & does not work, and how much needs to be adapted for it to work.  Basically a debate over what constitutes the spirit vs the letter of the law.

 

Further, the WOT is not completely all Robert Jordan.   Part of it is his editor & wife, part of it is Brandon Sanderson, and part of it is all the other people who have been involved over the years - beta readers, publisher, and so forth.   There was a really nice comment on a Dragonmount podcast about how each of our interpretations is like a drop of water, but the combined collective is an ocean.   For those that want to travel this (television) ocean with others, that ship/boat is now being steered by Rafe & the amazing people who work with him.

 

That in no way takes away from our own individual interpretation of WOT.  

 

I would like to end off with a thought on a scene from Episode 1.

 

Nynaeve tosses Egwene into the river.  I've talked about this leap of faith.   And how I will need to take a leap of faith with the show much like with the books previously.   But that scene adds to me another reminder - about not just having faith but also about acceptance/struggling.   

 

When Egwene struggles she comes close to drowning - but once she surrenders herself & trusts the river ...   Basically I believe that as long as I accept that the showrunner & crew interpretation will be true to WOT - even if their interpretation differs from mine - then it is going to be exactly like Egwene on the river.  Her acceptance on the river starts her opening up to a whole new possible world(s).

 

Accepting that the shows interpretation of the WOT will be true to the heart and accepting that the changes will work, even those I do not really like, allows for a much better result for me.   

 

This is a really great take, and I think what I have ended up doing.

Unlike you, I've been following the shows production very closely, so I knew what to expect, none of the major changes were unexpected.  However I actually found myself quite anxious my first time watching, especially in the first episode. I'd resolved myself to the changes, but think I was still struggling with it while watching. I've now surrendered to this telling of the story and am enjoying it immensely.

This thread has really gone in a strange direction. 

My wife is a book disliker. She'd read up to at least 5 or 6 I think but gave up before we met. She tried again a year or so ago but only got through book 2 before moving onto other things. It's specifically RJs writing style she dislikes, not so much the story.

She's watched Ep1 and 2 so far and thinks it's a good show. Didn't share my concerns with the Ep1 pacing. 

WoT is currently the most popular show on IMDb. I have no idea what that means.

57 minutes ago, Whittle said:

I’d say this is a fair assessment. I also agree with the guy a few posts up who said that a more faithful book adaptation could be done within the same number of episodes/ time length.

Sure, I reckon you could do a very faithful adaptation of the start in the same amount of time. Except it would all be from one POV. So instead of kicking off an epic show with a large ensemble cast. You have one with a very narrow focus and a very obvious protagonist with a bunch of side kicks. (that feels even more like a LoTR rip off)

We all know the story expands from there, but Rafe wanted to go with the ensemble feel from the start. I think it works once you get over the resistance to change.

44 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

No.

She said her name was Moiraine (not Moiraine Sedai) and everyone thought she was some high lady historian with a bodyguard. It was only after the trolloc attack that she was revealed and everyone began blaming her and she demanded; "Is this is what has become of Aemon's blood?" And she then tells of storied Manethren...

People thinking she is a high lady isn't the same thing as her hiding the fact she's an Aes Sedai. If she didn't want people to know, she wouldn't be wearing her ring. It's just most people in Emonds Field don't know about Aes Sedai rings and warder cloaks, so didn't put 2 and 2 together. I think the wiser heads in the the village (Tam especially) probably knew exactly what she was.

4 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Occam's Razor is you don't introduce a character including segments that are not the point of view of the "hallucinator" and then trash-can the character. Bet you 25 electrons that "figment" will be back.

Sure, I'll take your electrons.

5 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Q: who was the man?

A1: a figment

A2: Owein

The figment side is trying to explain magic as a mental issue.

Not sure if serious, but...

On one side we have a guy who's suffering taint induced madness and is seeing things.

On the other side you have a character that dies 10+ years before the show takes place, that is now alive again and is Saidin bros with some other channeler. Based on his dialogue he doesn't actually think he can channel himself but has also figured out invisibility.

I'm going with Occam's Razor on this one.

25 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Two different answers so far, but "Owein" was right is the guess. The figment side hasn't really bought into this "magic" idea. According to the wiki he is now called Maksim, a strong channeler.he 

Huh?